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  1. #211
    Ana Gram's Avatar
    Ana Gram is offline 2008 WINNER - straight shooter award
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsugar View Post
    My spin was slightly different but thermolicious, mrsd and hulahoop gave you other reasons why it shouldn't be so for all.
    I believe it makes you a better person and that that's important in your growth and development, God aside.
    Hmm, well I don't. I see nothing important about watching someone suffer. So why again, why should people like me have to suffer because people like you think we get some sort of growth out of it?

    The question of who's too ill to be given the ok? Incidentally there are Terminally ill people who do miraculously recover from these illnesses at times too. So who decides? And when do they decide? And the corruption of greedy beneficiaries of estates etc?
    The doctors who have the skills and the patient who is suffering get to decide. It shouldn't concern the rest of us. And I actually find your last part quite offensive.

    For all those reasons it's best not an option for non-believers I think. Care for the sick and dying and you will show great example to your children who will in turn be happy to show that to you. The lack of respect and love for the elderly in western societies is sad.
    Well, I don't agree with you. You don't get to decide what is 'best for non-believers', I find that quite... I don't know, superior, arrogant maybe.

    I agree that the lack of love and respect for the elderly is sadly lacking but we are talking about the terminally ill here, not offing old people.

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  3. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by KnockKnockPenny View Post
    100% for

    My mum always talks about not wanting to be here anymore. She has a medical problem the no amount of doctors can diagnose. She has heart attacks all the time and is just so exhausted and sick of being sick. She will get worse and it's going to be heart breaking to see, knowing there is no way out for her. My mum is only 45 this year and the heart attacks have been happening for the past 10 or so years
    I'm sorry to hear...

  4. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsugar View Post
    Ok we're clearly different.
    For me -
    Life is precious and given to us by God and u need to do everything in your power to live a good and wholesome long life.

    I don't believe suicide is a good choice for anyone either however I do understand why people opt for it out of desperation.
    Nothing wrong with being different!

    I think you can live a good and wholesome life, without it necessarily being a long one. If a long life is important to god, there wouldnt be neonatal/infant/child deaths, no?

    Not having a go at you, i just like philosophical debates and like to get to the nitty gritty of why people believe what they do

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Gram View Post

    I agree that the lack of love and respect for the elderly is sadly lacking but we are talking about the terminally ill here, not offing old people.
    Good point - not all terminally ill/suffering people are old, and not all old people are suffering.


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  6. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsugar View Post
    I'm sorry to hear...
    Thanks

  7. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    That's the thing... everyone is entitled to their own opinion insofar as it relates to their own choices. I'm not sure that I believe everyone is entitled to an opinion that thwarts and interferes with other people's choices.
    I think people ARE making the choice for themselves though? The issue affects everyone and since it's still illegal we can discuss collectively our opinions and they all matter. I'm talking for myself, for my family and whether I can or can't do something like that. I asked many questions that I think need to be answered before I can commit to a for or against.
    This is not a decision between the person and their dr. It's just not. The family/spouse/parent need to live with this well after the person is gone. There isn't anything to say this will affect someone emotionally/psychologically for a long time after. So if someone makes the choice to die, the person who was against this is left behind to deal with it. So it's not just up to the individual. I'd like to think my dh or my children's spouses take me into consideration in this, I know I would if I was looking at euthanasia for myself.
    So whether you think strangers are stopping you from euthanising a loved one, they are considering their own lives and family and it's not a topic that's taken lightly. Like I'm against it but your body your choice. No, it doesn't work like that when it affects everyone around that person.
    Helping someone die is a big deal that requires a lot of discussion.

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  9. #217
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    I don't think religion should come into it. We are talking about legalizing it for people to make a choice. If religious people choose to die a slow and painful death because it's in gods plan then they absolutely have that right and I respect their beliefs. But then non religious people should also have the choice to do things their way!!

  10. #218
    SpecialPatrolGroup's Avatar
    SpecialPatrolGroup is offline T-rex is cranky until she gets her coffee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    I think people ARE making the choice for themselves though? The issue affects everyone and since it's still illegal we can discuss collectively our opinions and they all matter. I'm talking for myself, for my family and whether I can or can't do something like that. I asked many questions that I think need to be answered before I can commit to a for or against.
    This is not a decision between the person and their dr. It's just not. The family/spouse/parent need to live with this well after the person is gone. There isn't anything to say this will affect someone emotionally/psychologically for a long time after. So if someone makes the choice to die, the person who was against this is left behind to deal with it. So it's not just up to the individual. I'd like to think my dh or my children's spouses take me into consideration in this, I know I would if I was looking at euthanasia for myself.
    So whether you think strangers are stopping you from euthanising a loved one, they are considering their own lives and family and it's not a topic that's taken lightly. Like I'm against it but your body your choice. No, it doesn't work like that when it affects everyone around that person.
    Helping someone die is a big deal that requires a lot of discussion.
    But legalising it to allow me to have a choice doesn't mean that you are bound to follow suit, you get to exercise your choice not to be a party to it.

    I believe that family is a huge factor in making our decisions, but family wanting to have a family member linger because they are not ready to say goodbye is not a great reason. My dad died from cancer, he suffered terribly but thatnkfully his suffering was comparatively brief, but I would never have been ready to let him go, but I couldn't have sat by and seen him suffer, vomiting faecal matter, in terrible pain. He died naturally, but I am still left behind with all the sadness of having seen him suffer, and it would have been selfish of me to ask him to suffer any longer just because I wasn't ready.
    Last edited by SpecialPatrolGroup; 28-05-2012 at 20:48.

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  12. #219
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    Just re posting some of the guidlines from the Netherlands - I assume if something was gong to be introduced and passed in Australia - it would have similar guidlelines...it would become a 'law'

    The law allows medical review board to suspend prosecution of doctors who performed euthanasia when each of the following conditions is fulfilled:

    --- the patient's suffering is unbearable with no prospect of improvement

    --- the patient's request for euthanasia must be voluntary and persist over time

    --- (the request cannot be granted when under the influence of others, psychological illness or drugs)


    --- the patient must be fully aware of his/her condition, prospects and options
    there must be consultation with at least one other independent doctor who needs to confirm the conditions mentioned above


    --- the death must be carried out in a medically appropriate fashion by the doctor or patient, in which case the doctor must be present


    --- the patient is at least 12 years old (patients between 12 and 16 years of age require the consent of their parents)




    I see this as compassion and respect for another human beings life.

    PLease don't tell me a 'loving god' has 'plan' that involves making people suffer truly horrendous diseases..and the benefit of that is so the person next to them can 'grow spiritually'
    ...before I bite massive indents in my tongue I will say one thing on that subject.
    -sounds like torture to me.



    moving on.

    DPs cousin is fighting for her life at this very moment - 5 years ago she was told she had 6months to live, she has fought hard, bluddy hard, she is down one lung, parts of her shoulder are gone, the bone from her leg is holding her pelvis together and now they have found tumors in her brain..she is slaying those dragons day in day out - I can not EVER imagine her giving up, she is surrounded by family and by a team of doctors that think she is the most inspirational woman they know.
    I cheer for her everyday.

    ..but, you know what -- had someone else been dealt the same blow as her and decided to call it quits 12 months ago, I would give them just as much respect.


    Euthanasia is basically 'assisted suicide' for when it gets to that point, I have experienced first hand what an unassisted attempted and 'successful' suicide was like.... It's not something I would recommend.
    Last edited by FiveInTheBed; 28-05-2012 at 20:51.

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  14. #220
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    Does anyone remember the man ( I think he was living in the UK) who went to a Swiss clinic had his euthanasia/assisted suicide filmed?


 

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