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  1. #61
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    There's no questioning of your beliefs on my behalf, you believe what you believe and that's totally ok. But within this thread a member continues to tell other christians nope your wrong. My point was that you can still be christian and believe different things.

    I know this is a thread about your own personal beliefs, thus why I haven't posted until now. But based on that atheists shouldn't even factor into the discussion. I understand it's a contentious issue here, but if you don't want debate then stick to your own beliefs and don't guess what atheists think.

    I hope that didn't come across too forceful, I have kids yelling and running around in the background and it's hard to keep my mind on task lol

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    so a few points

    not all atheists want there to not be a god. Honestly, if I knew as a good person that there was a heaven waiting for me, that there is a point to being good, that would be great. I actually would love the notion that everything is not random as I believe it is - that praying would bring positive things to good people. It's not that I don't want there to be a god, I simply don't believe there is one. My logical mind says there isn't.

    knomie - christians like any group aren't homogenous. They have different beliefs according to their sub religion for lack of a better word. I was raised and educated catholic, and the catholic and anglican churches no longer believe if fire and brimstone hell. They believe hell is a place where you can't see the face of god, that in itself is the punishment. Your views are fundamentalist christian, which is fine but telling everyone they are wrong in how they see god and hell isn't really far. That is your and your own churches interpretation.

    As to why would god want you if you don't want him? that idea kind of reminds me of the schoolyard line I know you are but what am I? if there was a god, I suspect he would be beyond childish tit for tat and see if a person's heart and mind is good.

    Now I'm thinking people are going to say, this is a christian thread not for atheists. But when people are making generalisations about atheists, making snide comments then a rebuttal has to be expected. If you want an atheist free thread then don't involve atheists.
    Delirium, I was simply responding to another post saying that god will forgive a non believer at the front of the pearly gates just because they've said oh wow you are real.
    I have backed up my belief (as the original post asked) by quoting scripture disproving this theory from the bibles point of view (which I believe to be truthful)

    As for me bringing up atheists, I think that you are just trying to stir because what I gave were examples, examples that I personally have experienced, not only on bh but in real life circumstances.

    I am not the judge of your soul, let alone anyone else's. God is. Im simply paraphrasing what I have learned from the Word of God.

    mummy to gods gift to us

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  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserama View Post
    I do believe in hell but I don't think it's what people interpret the bible of it being if that makes sense. I believe that hell=death and that death is the absence of LIFE (Christ). At the end I am beginning to think that all those who don't 'make it' (so to speak) will be given another chance and they WILL then be saved. I believe that they will be tormented until they do...not through fire and brimestone but through the sheer knowledge that they were wrong and that God really is real and that they can watch others live while they remain in death. This will be torment enough and it will probably feel like fire and brimestone to them. I believe that there will come a day when EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will confess that he is Lord...and that ALL will be saved. When the last enemy (death) is destroyed.,..there will be no more death.,..only life and EVERYONE will live.

    I believe FIRMLY that once saved always saved...and that God is the one who keeps us and He is the one who perserveres for us till the end. All those 'in' Christ will remain so and that this is His promise to His children.

    I'm identify with calivinism more than any other 'brand' of christianity, still haven't decided if I'm 100% calvinist or not...nor do I even care.
    Yeh see I see it differently as I have read it.


    Revelation 14:11 NLT

    The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night, for they have worshiped the beast and his statue and have accepted the mark of his name.”

    To me, this means forever torment.
    Other versions use the words no rest day or night for ever and ever

    Also,

    Matthew 13:40-43 NLT

    “Just as the weeds are sorted out and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the world. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!


    This to me is physical torture.

    mummy to gods gift to us

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    angenrod  (27-05-2012)

  6. #64
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    We're discussing hell, what it is and why someone would or wouldn't go. Not believing in God is very relevant so we can't not mention atheism in the discussion as atheists don't believe in God or Jesus. If you believe in the possibility of God isn't that Agnostic like someone posted by definition?
    As a believer in God and souls I must question what happens to those who don't believe, I won't be told by someone not to think about this, it's part of my learning and understanding of heaven, hell and God.
    I don't think anyone was telling someone they're wrong. If pp believes in pits of fire then that's her belief, if she believes it's where I'm going then that's her belief. I won't tell her she's wrong.
    We all believe what we do and someone not believing in God doesn't mean God doesn't exist for me. And telling me I'm going to pits of fire doesn't mean I am.

    The discussion was going pretty good imo. And you can discuss it with us, but being atheist I thought that means there is no God therefore no hell or Jesus. So what's there to add? I think all those exist and I'd like to hear people's points of view on what it is and what would make God reject a person to heaven?

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    knomie  (27-05-2012)

  8. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by knomie View Post
    Yeh see I see it differently as I have read it.


    Revelation 14:11 NLT

    The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever, and they will have no relief day or night, for they have worshiped the beast and his statue and have accepted the mark of his name.”

    To me, this means forever torment.
    Other versions use the words no rest day or night for ever and ever

    Also,

    Matthew 13:40-43 NLT

    “Just as the weeds are sorted out and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the world. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will remove from his Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. And the angels will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone with ears to hear should listen and understand!


    This to me is physical torture.

    mummy to gods gift to us
    As I said...I don't think hell is the way in which people INTERPRET to be. I don't read revelation to be literal for starters, I believe revelation and Daniel are the two most metaphoric books in the whole of the bible and they are NOT literal in any way shape or form. Therefore I have and always will base my belief on what the Holy Spirit puts on my heart and not through man's interpretation.

  9. #66
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    And if I'm wrong the Holy Spirit will bring it to my attention and correct me and I'm fine with that. He's done it before and he'll do it again...meanwhile I'll just keep loving Him and putting all my faith in HIM rather than man or the bible or anything else. Jesus is the author and the finisher of my faith and it is in HIM that I put my trust and HIM alone!

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    FirstTimeMummy2012  (27-05-2012)

  11. #67
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    Thanks for the discussion so far ladies. But I'll leave it at that for now.

    I'm not getting into another full throttle argument and once again getting shut down and told I'm wrong. I don't have the energy.
    I don't believe I put atheism down in this thread or ever unlike others who put Christians down, tease and snort at their beliefs, constantly. There is a difference. I think you just want to stir trouble and so choose not to see that.

  12. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheerilee View Post
    By that definition I am definitely NOT agnostic. I believe in my God and I am committed to him. Loud and proud.

  13. #69
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    Lily - Just ignore and continue on honey!

  14. #70
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    I'd forgotten how harsh those scriptures can be .. yowsers!!! One thing I do know for sure is my God has never once mentioned to me pits of hell or living in torture for all time. If God is all LOVE how can He possibly do anything but do act and speak of love?

    I can't remember who wrote it (sorry I'm on my phone) but I agree if you rock up at the gates (btw I don't believe in those pearly gates either) and say Wow I didn't think you existed but hey you do and I'd love to get to know you, God will embrace that person and let them right on in. I'd be willing to wager ANYTHING on that ;-)

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