Christians do you believe in hell?

[knomie]

OT, but my family were Maronite Catholics, it's an unusual thing to spot others who have the same religious background as us.

Where is his family from?

Lebanon.
Really? I know quite a few maronites!

mummy to gods gift to us

[Guest]

In other words, you're not praying TO an icon or cross. The kiss is not worshipping the image, the kiss is a sign of love and respect (and it's done when you enter the church along with a sign of the cross and lighting candles) BEFORE you come in to pray and hear the gospels.
We only worship God, that's done by praying not to an object but to God himself. God doesn't dwell in images and statues, that's also what that passage means.

[knomie]

Icons and crosses aren't made images of God that are worshipped. An icon and cross is a visual image to help us connect with the bible and Jesus. Keeping in mind not everyone can read or understand words written in the bible. An icon or cross is kissed not to worship, only God is worshipped. I think this passage talks about worshipping things that arent God, like ancient Greeks who worshipped multiple gods and made statues in their likeness and worshipped the statues.
That's the big difference, the worshipping. Crosses and icons aren't worshipped. Does that make sense?

Yeh it makes sense and I get where you're coming from, but see if you can see where im coming from....

No one knows what Jesus looks like.
If a statue was made in "his likeness" and ppl are kissing that statues feet, I see that as worshipping a false idol.

I view kissing, touching while praying is worship.

Do you get what im saying?

mummy to gods gift to us

[knomie]

In other words, you're not praying TO an icon or cross. The kiss is not worshipping the image, the kiss is a sign of love and respect (and it's done when you enter the church along with a sign of the cross and lighting candles) BEFORE you come in to pray and hear the gospels.
We only worship God, that's done by praying not to an object but to God himself. God doesn't dwell in images and statues, that's also what that passage means.

oh also, we (our congregation) do not do the sign of the cross. The last time I did this was in high school im sure

mummy to gods gift to us

[Guest]

Lebanon.
Really? I know quite a few maronites!

mummy to gods gift to us

How weird, when I looked at your photo of your wedding in the other thread I thought you were lebanese! It reminded me of my friends wedding with their hands up and walking in with the drum, that's what your pick looked like? Total guess but there you go, I guessed right somehow!!

[Guest]

Yeh it makes sense and I get where you're coming from, but see if you can see where im coming from....

No one knows what Jesus looks like.
If a statue was made in "his likeness" and ppl are kissing that statues feet, I see that as worshipping a false idol.

I view kissing, touching while praying is worship.

Do you get what im saying?

mummy to gods gift to us

Aha yes but it's not kissing and touching while praying. We don't pray to these things gwim?

[BlissedOut]

Lebanon.
Really? I know quite a few maronites!

mummy to gods gift to us

I'm Lebanese too.

I'm from New Zealand though, so if you were Lebanese and Maronite, you were my cousin. We're a rare breed there.

My family are from Sebhel.

[mrsd]

This is exactly how I feel.

IMO, it's those that cast their judgmental views on others who are the true sinners.

Quoting verses from the bible and telling others they are wrong and sinful ISN'T the way of Christianity.

MY God is one of love. HE is accepting of everyone that is good to this earth and those that live on it.

I'm a fan of the old saying, "Love the sinner, hate the sin."

There's a big difference between telling someone their actions are wrong and telling them that you don't like them. I know that our first urge is to get all defensive when we're told we're doing something wrong, but there are heaps of bible texts about the "righteous man" whose neighbours don't like him cos he does the right thing himself and is brave enough to stand up and tell them if he thinks they're in the wrong etc. Some scholars think that applies specifically to Jesus, who is our perfect model in life!

I think we have a duty to say what we think Jesus wanted - we are his voice on earth.

And, incidentally, he was very clear about marriage being between a man and a woman for life to the exclusion of all others! Yes, it sounds offensive if we're single and dtd or in a gay relationship or remarried divorcees, but while I think they're sins, I have heaps of friends and acquaintances in those "categories" who I like and respect very much.

Some of them think I'm sinful to put so much pressure on the environment by having a large family! In the end, only God will know peoples hearts and souls and make the final call.

Also, my husband was baptised maronite so this often comes up as well... do you pray to Mary or other saints?

mummy to gods gift to us

I definitely pray to Mary and other "saints" (Catholics believe that means everyone who makes it to heaven, not just the spectacular ones), just as I often pause and chat to the photo of my deceased in-laws in the foyer. I'm sure they can still hear me, wherever they are. It comes back to the purgatory thing, too, I guess.

Knomie, have you ever heard of Fatima or Medugorje (hope I spelt it correctly). Mary has supposedly appeared to people many times since the time of the early Church, and those 2 places were within the memory of those still living (she still appears to a lady at Medugorje), bringing messages about our need for peace. Very interesting.

BTW, we don't worship her, its more a Wedding at Cana thing - please ask your son / pray for us ...

[brownsugar]

Our Catholic churches are adorned by beautiful statues that some people kiss. I think Lily summed it up well and for me all these lead to Jesus and God. That verse to me is more about actual worship of things like gold calves as shown in pictoral bibles that have nothing to do with God - and in modern society I think it refers to things like money... that people put so much emphasis on but is worth nothing when one dies.

We also have pictures of the stations of the cross around the church that we kneel before but that doesn't mean we are worshipping a painting/sculpture.

The sign of the cross has a lot of meaning to me and is a physical reminder of Jesus' suffering on the cross and the Trinity.

I pray to Mary to INTERCEDE for me. So I pray through Our blessed Mother to God. I don't pray often through the saints... but do at times... For me they are all avenues to God so I don't see anything wrong in it....

mrsd - I've been to Lourdes and it's one of the most spiritually uplifting experiences of my life

[knomie]

How weird, when I looked at your photo of your wedding in the other thread I thought you were lebanese! It reminded me of my friends wedding with their hands up and walking in with the drum, that's what your pick looked like? Total guess but there you go, I guessed right somehow!!

Lol
We had a Lebanese wedding for my husband! - they're fun!

mummy to gods gift to us