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  1. #51
    Ana Gram's Avatar
    Ana Gram is offline 2008 WINNER - straight shooter award
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witwicky View Post
    Oh wow....I just read all of the comments under your photo. I kept wanting to comment lol. Wow
    I just read them (didn't get the notifications oddly). Wow. So much wow.

  2. #52
    ~Marigold~'s Avatar
    ~Marigold~ is offline You make me happy, when skies are grey
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    Quote Originally Posted by angewah View Post
    That's pretty mean actually, scaring a child like that. How was she to know whether that would give your child nightmares for example.

    My DD is only 4 months old. I have a long time before I have to worry about this sort of stuff thankfully.
    Yeah, exactly. Oh it made my blood boil... can anyone honestly say that if they ask a child aged 12 if they've ever lied to mum or dad they would get a "no" in return? My DS answered her honestly, she was just being a smug b!tch, bringing up the "Honour Thy mother and thy father" commandment.
    Like I said, I have nothing against religion, I'm actually technically a Catholic and so is DH, but we grew up to be who we are today because we chose that. If DS wants to join a religion when he grows up, fine by me. But to have it forced down his throat with scare tactics, that's a line you don't cross with my child. Respecting others in their home while they pray is one thing, but "making" him pray when he feels uncomfortable is not on. Like I said, I'd never force Atheist beliefs onto her child in my home and I'm sure she wouldn't appreciate it if I did.

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    FiveInTheBed  (22-05-2012)

  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post
    It definitely does sound like it needs an overhaul. Have you raised the issue of the scripture classes with the principal previously, including the fact that the non-scripture kids aren't being supervised? That does seem like a failure of duty of care to me. Children shouldn't be left unsupervised with a teacher just popping their head in every now and again. It is good that a qualified teacher supervises the volunteer - but again, I would be questioning who is actually held accountable for the goings-on - the volunteer, or the regular teacher? Legally, I would suspect that the regular teacher is responsible for what happens during the scripture classes, so they should be making sure that the non-scripture kids are not participating in any way in the scripture. TBH it might also be something that the regular teacher feels uncomfortable with the situation as well.

    I would still talk to the regular teacher and principal, as opposed to the volunteer, as it is their school, their paid employment, they have a duty and a responsiblity to both the children and the parents of the school, and they need to ensure that the wishes of the parents for their children to not participate in scripture classes are being met.
    Yep I have spoken to him, he is a new principal, and after the carry on last year(different principal) with DS1 I wrote this new guy a letter, met with him to discuss the introduction of an 'exclusion' form/sheet. etc . He seemed understanding...he even joked that if they had an influx of students not attending scripture that he would call on me to help out -- to which I said I would gladly!
    The first couple of weeks seemed to have teethng issues, kids still up the back of the class etc until they sorted it out.
    The thing is I know they need a qualified teacher present to prevent talks of fire & brimstone etc.. but I think the school also sees it as a good opportunity for some of teh other teachers to attend meetings or organise their bits and pieces.
    I was left a bt emotionally drained leading up to this and decided that them sitting in the other class for now was okay. and that i'd see how it panned out.

    Will have a chat to him tomorrow - I didn't see this sheet until DS2 unpacked his bag when we got home.

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    yerp - good mix in FB land!



    BMJand Baby -- that would be so hard ...being at the school atleast I have documented paper work to say it's not on..but I didn't really think people behaved like that with other people's children in their own home!? yikes!


    Lily -- I'm trying my hardest to 'just move on' honestly I am..but this has been a drama going on all year last year with DS1..and it took a good whole term this year to get some alternative sorted out for my three (and the other kids).
    It's not 'just' just the piece of paper... It's the fact that they alienate and seperate chidlren BASED on religion.. it's not just altheism vs theism... there is a great divide between kids (and they see it, they aren't silly) - the divide is BASED on religion...no wonder people grow up with an Us vs them mentality.

    If people held ther religion in such high regard - they wuldn't NEED to have their kids taught about it atschool... they'd be doing it themselves at home or in church.
    If enough parents are opposed, why do they even have them? (I don't have school age children) I mean in a public school I'd expect all sorts of religious and cultural backgrounds. Not everyone is Catholic or Evangelist or whatever religion it is they're teaching. Personally for me even if the class was on Islam I wouldn't care (if I had no choice and it was that or exclusion), but I'd prefer they don't learn any type of re at school and if other parents agree then surely they must scrap it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    If enough parents are opposed, why do they even have them? (I don't have school age children) I mean in a public school I'd expect all sorts of religious and cultural backgrounds. Not everyone is Catholic or Evangelist or whatever religion it is they're teaching. Personally for me even if the class was on Islam I wouldn't care (if I had no choice and it was that or exclusion), but I'd prefer they don't learn any type of re at school and if other parents agree then surely they must scrap it?
    one word:

    Funding.

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    Atropos  (23-05-2012)

  8. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    one word:

    Funding.
    What do you mean? The church pays the school to teach it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    Yep I have spoken to him, he is a new principal, and after the carry on last year(different principal) with DS1 I wrote this new guy a letter, met with him to discuss the introduction of an 'exclusion' form/sheet. etc . He seemed understanding...he even joked that if they had an influx of students not attending scripture that he would call on me to help out -- to which I said I would gladly!
    The first couple of weeks seemed to have teethng issues, kids still up the back of the class etc until they sorted it out.
    The thing is I know they need a qualified teacher present to prevent talks of fire & brimstone etc.. but I think the school also sees it as a good opportunity for some of teh other teachers to attend meetings or organise their bits and pieces.
    I was left a bt emotionally drained leading up to this and decided that them sitting in the other class for now was okay. and that i'd see how it panned out.

    Will have a chat to him tomorrow - I didn't see this sheet until DS2 unpacked his bag when we got home.
    It sounds like he is on board in regards to how you feel, but perhaps the working through of it isn't very efficient.

    I'm not really suprised that the teachers are using the time to get other things done - that was actually one of my first thoughts - hmmm, someone else is teaching my class for 1/2 hour, what can we use that time for?! Teachers are allllways doing stuff, so I can see how they would be tempted to use the scripture time as a non-contact time for themselves to do some other work, but it just isn't professional or responsible on behalf of the school. I hope the chat goes well tomorrow & the principal is supportive and quick to try to resolve the problem.

  10. #58
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    Pretty much...they offer a certain dollar figure to allow RE to be taught.

    I had a friend tell me that their Montessori school was approached and offered something like $60,000 for the year if they allowed it. The money would have been of great bebefit - and the principal was trying to do it so that the class was offered as an 'after school activity' for those who wanted to participate. (not sure how it went - I'll have to ask)

    ..and our school also has a Chaplain -- the schools get loads of money through the School Chaplain Program.

    I personally would prefer the kids had a qualified child psych or counsellor to go and see, but yeh ..Millions across Australia poured into schools through this program, connected to the government somehow -- I'll see if I can find out more information if you are interested.

  11. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    Pretty much...they offer a certain dollar figure to allow RE to be taught.

    I had a friend tell me that their Montessori school was approached and offered something like $60,000 for the year if they allowed it. The money would have been of great bebefit - and the principal was trying to do it so that the class was offered as an 'after school activity' for those who wanted to participate. (not sure how it went - I'll have to ask)

    ..and our school also has a Chaplain -- the schools get loads of money through the School Chaplain Program.

    I personally would prefer the kids had a qualified child psych or counsellor to go and see, but yeh ..Millions across Australia poured into schools through this program, connected to the government somehow -- I'll see if I can find out more information if you are interested.

    I think also because the scripture teachers are volunteers, they are not paid, so the school is gaining money there, especially if they are using the time as a non-contact for teachers - to pay a relief teacher to teach non-contact is expensive, so to have a volunteer come in and then just a couple of teachers supervise here and there saves the school some $$.

    Also, I think that many churches would give donations, etc. for these kinds of programs to operate. I know their heart is in the right place - they are giving both of their time and money, to try to 'help' others - it's just that it is like misguided charity, especially when people don't want it. I think it's lovely if the volunteers want to help out in the school, and I'm sure they are just trying to be nice, but when they are pushing their beliefs onto others, and they are untrained and unqualified to teach, and operate in a manner that is clearly unprofessional, I personally find that shouldn't be acceptable in a school environment. They will not teach the curriculum content well if they are not trained teachers, and although I am a christian (and a teacher), and I will be sending my child to a private christian school, I personally would be unhappy with an untrained teacher teaching my child about religion, or any other topic, at school.

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  13. #60
    Ana Gram's Avatar
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    I agree with you Regina. Volunteering is a great thing but children can be vulnerable to suggestion, especially from an adult. Classes during school time should be taught by qualified teachers.

    Imagine the outrage if I went into a classroom and talked to children about veganism.


 
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