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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Bec~ View Post
    Vaccinations on the other hand have strong scientific evidence that they greatly lower the risk of contracting a range of diseases, some of which can be fatal. Furthermore high vaccinations rates have contributed to the decline of said disease in the community. These are of great benefit to both my child and the community.
    The above statement can also be used in regard to circumcision. Whilst some would rather ignore the "strong scientific evidence" regarding the benefits of circumcision, it doesn't change the fact that the evidence is there. The assumption that parents circumcise for cosmetic reasons is false. I am one example of that not being the case.

    Ear piercing, on the other hand, doesn't have the medical benefits that circumcision has - so it is purely cosmetic.

    That aside, I am of the opinion that the parent knows best and can make some tough decisions on behalf of their child. That goes for circumcision or ear piercing. I personally, would not pierce a baby girl's ear, but I have circumcised both my boys.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    The above statement can also be used in regard to circumcision. Whilst some would rather ignore the "strong scientific evidence" regarding the benefits of circumcision, it doesn't change the fact that the evidence is there. The assumption that parents circumcise for cosmetic reasons is false. I am one example of that not being the case.

    Ear piercing, on the other hand, doesn't have the medical benefits that circumcision has - so it is purely cosmetic.

    That aside, I am of the opinion that the parent knows best and can make some tough decisions on behalf of their child. That goes for circumcision or ear piercing. I personally, would not pierce a baby girl's ear, but I have circumcised both my boys.
    Spot on

  4. #43
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    I think whether or not you view them as at all similar would depend on your view of each.

    I guess I see ear piercing as a cosmetic procedure - but when done properly, the initial pain is not that bad, and nor is the pain afterwards unless it gets infected. From what a friend who was circumcised at 16 says, the pain was pretty bad and he took time off school (2 weeks) to recovery and had to wear a nappy-like bandage for a while. He was put to sleep to have it done, but babies aren't... and with the plastibell method, it takes a while for hte foreskin to "drop off," anyway so I really is similar to that of getting your ears pierced.

    I also believe that a child can make the decision to have their ears done - the risks are minimal and if you change your mind when you're older, the only scars you have are tiny little holes which may close over (even if not, they're still just tiny mostly unobvious scars.

    With circumcision, everyone who ever sees your penis will know it's been done, and if you change your mind later - well, you can't grow a foreskin back. It's gone forever, unless you get a fake replacement made, perhaps costing you a small fortune and potentially being quite painful.

    That's my personal view on it anyway, and I don't think they're the same really... but as I said in my first reply, I do think they're both similar in terms of how necessary they are.

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  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweetseven View Post
    How about naming your child? That is something they are stuck with for life. Perhaps you should hold off on naming your child until they are old enough to choose their own.

    http://eagar.mit.edu/EagarPresentati...ing/logic.html

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  8. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinonymous View Post
    Yes exactly and as a parent you choose what you think is best for your child, simple as that. Not everyone will think its the right decision but as a parent you do and that's all that matters.

  9. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberleygal1 View Post
    Yes exactly and as a parent you choose what you think is best for your child, simple as that. Not everyone will think its the right decision but as a parent you do and that's all that matters.
    Not really. There are many times parents think they want to do things but it most certainly is not the best thing for the child. Look at that dude who gave his kid a tattoo, or that chick who pierced her cat's ears. All harmful acts in the name of fashion.

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  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberleygal1 View Post
    Yes exactly and as a parent you choose what you think is best for your child, simple as that. Not everyone will think its the right decision but as a parent you do and that's all that matters.
    my point was that they need to read that website to see the error in their logic.

    You should also read the part of 'appeal to authority' fallacy;

    http://www.fallacyfiles.org/authorit.html

    Authority A believes that P is true.
    Therefore, P is true.
    Just because a parent believes that "P" is the best thing for their child,
    doesn't mean that "P" is the best thing for their child.

    A choice needs more reasoning than a simple referral to authority.

    Otherwise chinese parents who broke their childrens feet (known as "foot binding") were inherently correct in their choice simply because they were parents.

  12. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by justinonymous View Post
    A choice needs more reasoning than a simple referral to authority.
    Well said. I would hope then that you would also highlight the 'appeal to authority' that most anti-circ members refer and rely upon.

    eg. "But...but...but.... the RACP says so. So I must do what they say."

    I am not a fan of the appeal to authority at all. Whether it is about global warming...sorry... climate change, or circumcision.

    I have the ability to study the facts and come to my own determination.

  13. #49
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    Before I had my children I wasn't fussed by it all thought it would be up to dad if he was/wasn't done or what he wanted his boy to be like. Then (as I'm an early childhood teacher ) my mind changed to NO WAY. I had to change a little boys nappy about 3 weeks after he was done it was the most painful thing for me I had to clean him up after he had a bowel motion (poo) apply cream to him his nappy and the whole time the poor little man was screaming in pain I ended up in tears. That day that nappy change changed my mind for me and the poor little guy wasn't even infected soi can't even imagine what that would be like.

  14. #50
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    I think that changing a poo nappy is 'the most painful thing for me' too.
    Yep. Kids cry sometimes when they get their nappies changed. I hate it when they kick their legs in a tantrum and it ends up in their poo.


 

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