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  1. #101
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    Oh Lily, you are a funny one. Did you watch the episode of Q&A?
    Pell brought up Hitler -- and the audience groaned.

    Del hasn't given any misinformation that I can see in that post.
    Infact she has said his actions were 'under the guise of christianity'.

    ..although I do recall a thread which resorted to the good ol' 'Godwin's Law' of Hitler being introduced as an 'atheist' to try and 'get an agenda across'..the posters name started with L and ended in ily from memory.
    Last edited by FiveInTheBed; 12-04-2012 at 20:29.

  2. #102
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    I didn't watch it, but I found that whole post pretty offensive. Infact, all your doing now is shooting down christians and christianity as a whole. You didn't like what one man was saying in a debate, so now it's amunition to offend and attack all christians. Give it up.
    Yes I brought up Hitler being atheist, he certainly wasn't a religious man, and he murdered my own relatives and my grandparents friends in their village, my mother witnessed people being murdered when she was a child by the SS. Don't give me that bullshi!t that Hitler was Christian and the Holocaust was a hate crime to Jews BY CHRISTIANS, use the word guise, but that's what's implied.
    Lets not use words to tip toe around what you really mean. None of you understand how much you hurt and offend people here, it shows alot about your characters.

  3. #103
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    Lily - there's no need to swear.

    The comment was referring to the Q&A show, a comment Pell made.
    If you haven't watched it - you are taking following posts waaaay out of context.

    No one I personally know blames christians FOR Hitler! They blame Hitler - ugly man, ugly racist attitudes.

    I know it may sound like an 'attack' on your chosen religion and the people who practise it, but it's not.


    I think most of us are scoffing at the reality that he was actually a Roman Catholic, but he often gets used as a tool against Atheism.
    THis is from one of his public statements (apparently - ofcourse I wasn't there):

    "My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."

    THAT is a part of history.
    But, again -- noone in ANY of these threads, nor on the episode of Q&A that is being discussed from the 'Atheism camp' have brought up the name 'Hitler'

    ...and personally I think he needs to be kept out of future debates regarding this topic, because there are plenty of other issues out there to discuss without resorting to the H dude.
    ETA> HE manipulated masses of people - that's what it boils down to. He was a "politcally cunning theist"
    Last edited by FiveInTheBed; 12-04-2012 at 19:30.

  4. #104
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    He used speeches to gain strength and popularity, so he used religion to manipulate his followers to believe what he was doing was right. Terrorists do it today. What was your point in posting his speech? Am I to believe he did this for his 'religion'? Or used it to gain support? Maybe the church needs to distance themselves and call him an atheist because atheists like to blame evil, hate and all suffering in the world to be from religion. It's been said here by ALL of you.
    I'm not taking anything out of context, I'm reading opinions without that segment in my mind and that's what I'm reading.
    Is bullshi!t swearing? ..... That's how I speak, I'm a real person and say words like shi!t.

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  6. #105
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    I've never heard the "Hitler was an athiest" angle before Q&A. It's interesting because I've had the "Hitler was a vegetarian" thrown at me before (I'm vegetarian). I don't care what religion (or not) Hitler was or wasn't - I don't get the relevance.

    I guess my biggest issue with religion is that, on the whole, it is not up for debate. Unlike science who, when proved otherwise using scientific means, will change their stance. Religion, on the other hand, does not allow itself the same level of scrutiny. Science puts forth a theory, tests the theory and allows the tests to be reviewed and critiqued by other scientists. Should there be a point in time where a test prove the hypothesis otherwise, scientific opinion will adapt and change to account for new information.

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  8. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Bec~ View Post
    I've never heard the "Hitler was an athiest" angle before Q&A. It's interesting because I've had the "Hitler was a vegetarian" thrown at me before (I'm vegetarian). I don't care what religion (or not) Hitler was or wasn't - I don't get the relevance.
    Yeah, love that one

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    He used speeches to gain strength and popularity, so he used religion to manipulate his followers to believe what he was doing was right. Terrorists do it today. What was your point in posting his speech? Am I to believe he did this for his 'religion'? Or used it to gain support? Maybe the church needs to distance themselves and call him an atheist because atheists like to blame evil, hate and all suffering in the world to be from religion. It's been said here by ALL of you.
    I'm not taking anything out of context, I'm reading opinions without that segment in my mind and that's what I'm reading.
    Is bullshi!t swearing? ..... That's how I speak, I'm a real person and say words like shi!t.
    Lily - all the swearing does s show how upset you are getting and it does come across as agressive online.

    The subject of Hitler would not have been brought up if not for the episode of Q&A where Pell mentioned him


    we were discussing that comment.

    The church actually DID try and distance themselves from him once the 'sh!t' hit the fan...it wasn't until more recent times that they confirmed he was born into a Roman Catholic Family - he often refered to 'the Lord' etc (an Atheist - a person who LACKS beleif in a God, would not refer to a deity ).

    He declared and demanded a 'true' or 'positive' christianity... he viewed religion as a 'race' - hence his drive to achieve an Aryan Race (a master race).

    He was twisted and a horrible man --- I don't want to discuss Hitler anymore - it makes me feel ill.
    I am really disappointed carndial Pell brought him up in a live debate.
    if you want to read more about Hitler - start here>
    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Adolf_H...eligious_views

    {re the bolded part of your quote... nope that would be 'anti-theism'. all an atheist does is deny the existence of deities.}
    Last edited by FiveInTheBed; 12-04-2012 at 20:21.

  10. #108
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    When it comes to Hitler and religion my guess is that he made his stance vague so that it would appeal to more people, just like he called his party the Nationalist Socialist party. The two terms are contradictory but have mass appeal.

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    yep Bec... masses of manipulation.

    also we don't know how much we read is correct translation either.
    *paranoid*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    You do know Hitler commited crimes against Christians as well yeah? Using Hitlers crimes against Christians is pretty rancid imo. Take your own advice and don't try and throw people off with misinformation about the most hated man in history to get your own agenda across.
    Huh?? I think you've misunderstood what I said. I don't think Hitler's views or actions reflect *anything* about christians. I believe he used christianity as an excuse to kill jews, but wasn't truly a christian at all. I also believe the fact he identified as roman catholic gives other RC's a bad name that actually do live behind the principles of loving your fellow man.

    As for misinformation, sorry but it's not. There were a number of speeches he gave talking about christian vs jews and how they are evil.

    Here are lots of direct quotes from hitler...
    http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhit...erFaithGod.htm
    http://atheism.about.com/od/adolfhit...rChristian.htm
    http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm


 

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