View Poll Results: Do you support the rights of same sex couples to marry?

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  • Yes

    169 89.42%
  • No

    20 10.58%
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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I don't think anyone here is saying ALL religious people are homophobes. There are a number of christians in this thread that I know live religious lives yet support gay marriage.

    The issue for me is religion should not be used like a suit of invincibility where it cannot be open to critique bc it's a religious belief. Removing what I consider is a basic human right - to marry the person you love, should be open to discussion.

    I'll give this example - and I'll preface this by clearly saying I don't hold these beliefs, it's an example....

    I'm an atheist. I'm very vocal in saying christian schools in their entirety should be removed as the notion of religious education offends me. When a christian person questions this and says I'm removing their basic right to educate their children in the christian faith. I say nope, we can't discuss that bc that's my beliefs as an atheist and you questioning my desire to remove your rights means you are trashing atheism.

    That's how it seems from my POV...
    Back on the topic of gay marriage, if more than 70% of adults in Australia are FOR gay marriage, and our PM is atheist, why is it still illegal? Because it is a social issue. Yes, cultural, yet what is 'culture' for Australians?

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopefully2 View Post
    I believe marriage was and is a religious ceremony where two souls fit together to create eternal life through procreation.

    Do I think this is the definition of modern marriage? To some. Do I believe gay people should be able to get married? It all comes down to what is marriage. To me marriage will always be about unification of souls for the purpose of creating life.

    Makes no difference to my life if they have the ceremony. Feel committed forever by ceremony. They can not fulfill the main purpose of soulful union and that is to procreate.

    Do I regarded gay marriage as the same as my marriage to my husband? No. My husband and I fullfil the highest soulful experience by creating life.

    In saying that I would not oppose law to bring in gay marriage. It wouldn't lessen what I have. It makes absolutely no difference to my life. I wouldn't regard it as the same. Ever.
    So how do you feel about straight couples who never have kids, or gay couples who do have kids?

  3. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopefully2 View Post
    I believe marriage was and is a religious ceremony where two souls fit together to create eternal life through procreation.

    Do I think this is the definition of modern marriage? To some. Do I believe gay people should be able to get married? It all comes down to what is marriage. To me marriage will always be about unification of souls for the purpose of creating life...

    Do I regarded gay marriage as the same as my marriage to my husband? No. My husband and I fullfil the highest soulful experience by creating life.
    I do understand where you're coming from, and I disagree, but that's ok. What I would like to say is that in the above statement that 'marriage is the unification of two souls to create life' is extremely offensive. There are many, as you know, that cannot have children for a variety of reasons. If marriage is about procreation, then that is like saying infertile couples should not marry. I don't want to put words into your mouth, I just ask that you think about that.

  4. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to MissPoss For This Useful Post:

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  5. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by share a book View Post
    Back on the topic of gay marriage, if more than 70% of adults in Australia are FOR gay marriage, and our PM is atheist, why is it still illegal? Because it is a social issue. Yes, cultural, yet what is 'culture' for Australians?
    Our Pm does not make decisions based on popular choice but on long term reprecusions for her country. There is a lot of religious money in this country as is in most countries. I doubt it will ever happen.

  6. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by share a book View Post
    Back on the topic of gay marriage, if more than 70% of adults in Australia are FOR gay marriage, and our PM is atheist, why is it still illegal? Because it is a social issue. Yes, cultural, yet what is 'culture' for Australians?
    Julia Gillard is not game enough to challenge Bob Browns position on gay marriage, it would mean she loses his support and would create a hung parliament forcing an election. She's not in a position at this point to win an election.

  7. #136
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    Cant vote but I wholeheartedly with same sex marriage.

    Sent from my X10i using BubHub

  8. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopefully2 View Post
    I believe marriage was and is a religious ceremony where two souls fit together to create eternal life through procreation.

    Do I think this is the definition of modern marriage? To some. Do I believe gay people should be able to get married? It all comes down to what is marriage. To me marriage will always be about unification of souls for the purpose of creating life.

    Makes no difference to my life if they have the ceremony. Feel committed forever by ceremony. They can not fulfill the main purpose of soulful union and that is to procreate.

    Do I regarded gay marriage as the same as my marriage to my husband? No. My husband and I fullfil the highest soulful experience by creating life.

    In saying that I would not oppose law to bring in gay marriage. It wouldn't lessen what I have. It makes absolutely no difference to my life. I wouldn't regard it as the same. Ever.
    Seeing that 'marriage' was aound before religion got involved how does that figure with your first comment

    What about people who don't want or can't have kids, is their marriage any less real?

    What about people who marry, divorce, get married again and divorce and so on - are their marriages more or less real than a gay union?

    How about people who don't get married and procreate - i am not married, not engaged I just live with my partner. We have kids - are you saying our union cannot be soulful?

    How can you say that a gay couple cannot have the highest soulful experience?

    You are right though, it makes not one iota of difference to your marriage and cannot ever.

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  10. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkingClassMum View Post
    I don't know that it is her personal view as she gives no reason or discussion for her views.
    She's vocal about being atheist, do you think that's just for show and really she's afraid of going against religion? You did say you haven't seen not 1 person be against gay marriage who doesn't use religion, and I thought that was abit extreme as I know plenty who don't give ahoot about religion, yet still opose gay marriage. yet religion is the only factor to blame for some people which I think.My point was entirely missed in the 1st place, you can discuss religion and perhaps discuss parts of the bible that you disagree with, I don't object that and to think religion isn't a main factor that alot of people use is naive (and I'm not). Yet people who are arguing for gay marraige are using religion as their only argument, and people who are for it, even religious, have to ignore the actual issue and defend their religion instead. You don't have to hate on religion to get a point across because you'll lose support from people who would otherwise have supported gay marriage. There is a difference with using religion in a discussion with that person and telling they're wrong, I do it myself, but hating religion and 'blaming' it goes beyond.
    Last edited by Mod-Nomsie; 25-03-2012 at 17:42. Reason: untrue accusations

  11. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissPoss View Post
    I do understand where you're coming from, and I disagree, but that's ok. What I would like to say is that in the above statement that 'marriage is the unification of two souls to create life' is extremely offensive. There are many, as you know, that cannot have children for a variety of reasons. If marriage is about procreation, then that is like saying infertile couples should not marry. I don't want to put words into your mouth, I just ask that you think about that.
    I don't take offense and mean none myself. Infertile couples don't know they are necessarily infertile and have technology available to them to create life together. I mean together, not via donation.

    I understand that this is not the definition that most people use to define marriage.

    I know this is going to open a huge can of worms. I don't mean it to get ugly. I have no problem with current ivf laws or redefining marriage. However it's not my view of marriage.

    So in answering the op's question by my definition, gay people will never truly be married. Perhaps by law of the land they will be but not by the sanctity of union as they are unable to fulfill the soulful experience of procreating together.

  12. #140
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    I'm going to copy and post the link that a member posted in one of the previous threads - I think it is relevant.

    http://www.care2.com/causes/the-forg...-marriage.html






    .

    Republicans and other opponents of gay marriage often speak of marriage as being a 2,000 year old tradition (or even older). Quite apart from the fact that the definition of marriage has changed from when it was a business transaction, usually between men, there is ample evidence that within just Christian tradition, it has changed from the point where same-sex relationships were not just tolerated but celebrated.

    In the famous St. Catherine’s monastery on Mount Sinai, there is an icon which shows two robed Christian saints getting married. Their ‘pronubus’ (official witness, or “best man”) is none other than Jesus Christ.

    The happy couple are 4th Century Christian martyrs, Saint Serge and Saint Bacchus — both men.

    Severus of Antioch in the sixth century explained that “we should not separate in speech [Serge and Bacchus] who were joined in life.” More bluntly, in the definitive 10th century Greek account of their lives, Saint Serge is described as the “sweet companion and lover (erastai)” of St. Bacchus.

    Legend says that Bacchus appeared to the dying Sergius as an angel, telling him to be brave because they would soon be reunited in heaven.

    Yale historian John Richard Boswell discovered this early Christian history and wrote about it nearly 20 years ago in “Same Sex Unions In Pre-Modern Europe“ (1994).

    In ancient church liturgical documents, he found the existence of an “Office of Same Sex Union” (10th and 11th century Greek) and the “Order for Uniting Two Men” (11th and 12th century Slavonic).

    He found many examples of:
    A community gathered in a church
    A blessing of the couple before the altar
    Their right hands joined as at heterosexual marriages
    The participation of a priest
    The taking of the Eucharist
    A wedding banquet afterwards

    A 14th century Serbian Slavonic “Office of the Same Sex Union,” uniting two men or two women, had the couple having their right hands laid on the Gospel while having a cross placed in their left hands. Having kissed the Gospel, the couple were then required to kiss each other, after which the priest, having raised up the Eucharist, would give them both communion.

    Boswell documented such sanctified unions up until the 18th century.

    In late medieval France, a contract of “enbrotherment” (affrèrement) existed for men who pledged to live together sharing ‘un pain, un vin, et une bourse’ – one bread, one wine, and one purse.

    Other religions, such as Hinduism and some native American religions, have respect for same-sex couples weaved into their history.

    When right-wing evangelical Christians talk about “traditional marriage,” there is no such thing.


 

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