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  1. #281
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    Nancy, is Gillard not fighting for gay marriage out of 'respect' for the line about marriage being between a man and a woman do you think?
    Where does that line come from?

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  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    The liberal party is headed by Abbott, do you think his personal religious beliefs affect his stand against this?

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    Perhaps it could be seen that way, but my personal opinion is that he hides behind religion to make himself feel better about being a pig. I don't believe it's just gay rights he would like to suppress, but also women's rights and the rights of immigrants and Indigenous Australians. It's really very un-Christian of him. Jesus would never have done that. Of course, immigrants who are white males from an English speaking country are ok, just not anyone else.

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  4. #283
    Witwicky's Avatar
    Witwicky is offline A closed mouth gathers no foot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annabella View Post
    In bold- you have really crossed the line there. How very inappropriate!

    I am not getting defensive about bloody priests, I am well aware of the allegations and i think if you look back on my posts you will see I am not defending anything/one as its simply not defendable!

    Again, not indifferent to THOSE particular issues. Indifferent to you and your hatred of anything based on faith- yes.
    *sigh*. I don't have a 'hatred' towards faith, but whatever. Ok.

  5. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    Annabella what are the politicians using to back up their refusal to allow gays to marry?

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    Don't know TBH, but whatever they claim is the reason, I think the REAL reason is they are scared to lose votes.

  6. #285
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    How can people defend their personal beliefs about God and Jesus while having religion attacked as a whole?
    How do you expect people to answer these questions?
    So someone murders, and because he goes to church, that whole religion is bad? So because pedophiles (who were priests) abused children, you blame the whole religion? When terrorists bomb and kill people, do you blame the whole religion?

    There are bad people in this world. People kill in the name of religion, people use religion to commit crimes, when we know its not the actual religion that incites violence and some people are just bad people.
    This will always happen. You don't try and bring a whole faith and way of life down because *some people use it's name to do bad things.

    How about we talk about atheists. What major crimes have atheists commited? Wasn't Hitler an atheist?
    Haven't people been murdered and abused BECAUSE of their religion?

    There are bad people in this world. End of story.

    Gay marriage. Why hasn't anyone said the *government* should change gay marriage laws? Why don't people say governments need to seperate religion from politics and give equal rights regardless of religious beliefs? Why is religion blamed? Not everyone in government is religious?
    Isn't our Prime Minister an atheist?
    Yes the church rejects gay marriage, and I don't see gays being united in a church anytime soon. Its sad, but they won't alter the religion, to do this its altering things in the bible. Its said in the bible man and woman unite in marriage.
    We would all like to see this changed, its discrimination. But I can't change a whole religious organisation. But the government can change its laws.

    No one is denying bad things happen in the name of religion, they do, and it has alot to answer for. But don't use these things to attack peoples personal relationships with their faith and religion. Its an easy road to take, using bad things people have done and making people try and explain them. When 9/11 happened, muslims everywhere were blamed, the whole religion was attacked. It hurt muslims what terrorists did just as much as it hurt anyone else.
    Attacking someones religion as a whole because of what bad people do is hurtful.
    And remember, religious people hurt people, non religious people hurt people, religion is attacked just as much as its attacked. The point is, there is bad in this world, the actual religion isn't to blame. The bible never told a pedophile to become a priest to be closer to children where he can gain the trust and respect of his community and use it to commit his crime. The bible never said that. Man commits crime, not religion.

  7. #286
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witwicky View Post
    *sigh*. I don't have a 'hatred' towards faith, but whatever. Ok.
    Oh sorry, just that you think anyone with a faith not based on science is of low intelligence, primitive, stopping their kids reaching their full potential etc.... Perhaps hatred is the wrong word. Maybe lack of acceptance of others' beliefs is better?

  8. #287
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    Witwicky is offline A closed mouth gathers no foot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    How can people defend their personal beliefs about God and Jesus while having religion attacked as a whole?
    How do you expect people to answer these questions?
    So someone murders, and because he goes to church, that whole religion is bad? So because pedophiles (who were priests) abused children, you blame the whole religion? When terrorists bomb and kill people, do you blame the whole religion?

    There are bad people in this world. People kill in the name of religion, people use religion to commit crimes, when we know its not the actual religion that incites violence and some people are just bad people.
    This will always happen. You don't try and bring a whole faith and way of life down because *some people use it's name to do bad things.

    How about we talk about atheists. What major crimes have atheists commited? Wasn't Hitler an atheist?
    Haven't people been murdered and abused BECAUSE of their religion?

    There are bad people in this world. End of story.

    Gay marriage. Why hasn't anyone said the *government* should change gay marriage laws? Why don't people say governments need to seperate religion from politics and give equal rights regardless of religious beliefs? Why is religion blamed? Not everyone in government is religious?
    Isn't our Prime Minister an atheist?
    Yes the church rejects gay marriage, and I don't see gays being united in a church anytime soon. Its sad, but they won't alter the religion, to do this its altering things in the bible. Its said in the bible man and woman unite in marriage.
    We would all like to see this changed, its discrimination. But I can't change a whole religious organisation. But the government can change its laws.

    No one is denying bad things happen in the name of religion, they do, and it has alot to answer for. But don't use these things to attack peoples personal relationships with their faith and religion. Its an easy road to take, using bad things people have done and making people try and explain them. When 9/11 happened, muslims everywhere were blamed, the whole religion was attacked. It hurt muslims what terrorists did just as much as it hurt anyone else.
    Attacking someones religion as a whole because of what bad people do is hurtful.
    And remember, religious people hurt people, non religious people hurt people, religion is attacked just as much as its attacked. The point is, there is bad in this world, the actual religion isn't to blame. The bible never told a pedophile to become a priest to be closer to children where he can gain the trust and respect of his community and use it to commit his crime. The bible never said that. Man commits crime, not religion.
    No one is blaming the whole religion. It was actually a religious person insinuating that religious people don't commit crimes which started this entire discussion!

    I wholeheartedly agree with your last sentence.

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  10. #288
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    Witwicky is offline A closed mouth gathers no foot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annabella View Post
    Oh sorry, just that you think anyone with a faith not based on science is of low intelligence, primitive, stopping their kids reaching their full potential etc.... Perhaps hatred is the wrong word. Maybe lack of acceptance of others' beliefs is better?
    You don't seem to understand the points I was making. I would try to re-explain them but I don't think it will get through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NancyBlackett View Post
    Gillard is an atheist and opposes same sex marriage.

    It's entrenched community views that need to change in order to change political views on same sex marriage.
    I don't think she against it persay, she's too gutless (as are all the pollies) to take a stand and end the discrimination. There's a difference

    As to the stuff about attributing bad things to religion and priests in particular, I think this more came as a response to the comment that religious people aren't pedophiles or murders and that in so many words, non believers are. I don't for a moment blame ladies in here that identify as catholic/christian and blame them (nor do I think anyone does). We are discussing the 'institution' of the religion not it's followers. That's why of all the christian religions I have the most issue with catholic which I was raised in - doesn't support female priests and hides pedophiles from punishment This is the church NOT the followers

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  13. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witwicky View Post
    No one is blaming the whole religion. It was actually a religious person insinuating that religious people don't commit crimes which started this entire discussion!

    I wholeheartedly agree with your last sentence.
    I must have missed that part. Someone said they are not Christians if they do those things no matter what they say.


 

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