+ Reply to Thread
Page 4 of 37 FirstFirst ... 2345614 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 369
  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    984
    Thanks
    238
    Thanked
    313
    Reviews
    1
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post
    Elijahs mum - I would also love to be able to read and understand Hebrew! Thanks for your perspective.

    Justwanttobeamummy- I love how your church operates! I'm really drawn to the idea of church without hierarchial leaderahip, but with a corporate/ communal operation. I always wonder if 'human nature' would take over, and if one person would try to elevate themselves above others. Do you find that this happens?

    Thanks for the article, I found it very interesting & thought-provoking. I'm still not sure if it changes what I believe, to be honest, but it has definitely made me think about and assess WHY I see Satan as I do, and what the bible actually tells us. It does make sense reading the translation of 'adversary', and that an adversary can come in many forms. I also believe that we sometimes simplify concepts to put them into forms that we can understand easier, so maybe we do create the idea of Satan as a 'being' because it is more concrete and easier for us to understand?

    Anyway, thanks for sharinf, there's definitely a lot to ponder over!
    No worries, sorry there's so much but it just all seemed important!

    I wonder what else we can gently debate?? I love that we can have a nice space to do this.

    What about adult baptism? Who thinks it's essential for salvation, and if so, why?

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    984
    Thanks
    238
    Thanked
    313
    Reviews
    1
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post
    Elijahs mum - I would also love to be able to read and understand Hebrew! Thanks for your perspective.

    Justwanttobeamummy- I love how your church operates! I'm really drawn to the idea of church without hierarchial leaderahip, but with a corporate/ communal operation. I always wonder if 'human nature' would take over, and if one person would try to elevate themselves above others. Do you find that this happens?
    In answer to this question, human nature always comes out to play at certain points None of us are perfect, but we operate as a family and the way we work together minimizes anyone getting up on their high horse.

    Sometimes I hear people saying how evil churches are or that people are just controlling, but in my experiences if you can find a group of people who believe similarly to you and love them as your family it can be a very rewarding and encouraging community to be a part of. Humans are humans, there will always be people you don't particularly mesh with, or find easy to like, and there will be people who have a different agenda to you. BUT, this is the nature of people, not the "church" or "religion". People are not perfect, and so no religion will ever seem perfect.

    I apologise to anyone who experience hurt by a church or similar, I do understand that in some cases people have had awful experiences and I don't wish to downplay them.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Toowoomba
    Posts
    8,747
    Thanks
    2,851
    Thanked
    1,440
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Justwant2beamummy View Post
    No worries, sorry there's so much but it just all seemed important!

    I wonder what else we can gently debate?? I love that we can have a nice space to do this.

    What about adult baptism? Who thinks it's essential for salvation, and if so, why?
    Aaaaah - that subject is one that I have been exploring for some time. And yes it is a contentious issue in many Christian circles. Jury is still out for me, I'm not really sure. There are certainly scripture that allude that it is NOT. And certainly Christ's baptism (for me) is a fullfillment. But there are other scripture that says that it IS. So I'm still out on that one. Personally *I* have been baptised, at the age of 10 (my own choice) believing, at that stage that it was essential for salvation. I haven't and won't push my kids into that and have just left them to find their own way with God.

    ETA - I'm leaning towards it being 'NOT' essential at this stage.

    What do others think?

    Want2bemummy I know a church that has broken away....actually know of a few 'home' churches who have gone back to how the original church used to fellowship, which is interesting. Everyone having a psalm, everyone being equal...taking turns etc etc, congregating in homes like the early church did
    Last edited by Deserama; 01-03-2012 at 18:20.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    10,317
    Thanks
    3,127
    Thanked
    6,323
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 postsAmethyst Star - 5,000 postsEmerald Star - 10,000 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Justwant2beamummy View Post

    What about adult baptism? Who thinks it's essential for salvation, and if so, why?
    For me, I don't think it's needed, but can totally understand that others do, I do think though it is better to be baptized as an adult so you can understand what you are agreeing too, compared to infant baptism , I suppose though it's what you believe, I don't believe in original sin and I believe any one that dies ( that is not baptized) will still be judged fairly by G-d ( if that makes any sense!)
    Jews do not baptise as such ( some however like the orthodox do ritual cleansing like what John the Baptist did or if you are converting it is a requirement )

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    599
    Thanks
    362
    Thanked
    413
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Deserama View Post
    Aaaaah - that subject is one that I have been exploring for some time. And yes it is a contentious issue in many Christian circles. Jury is still out for me, I'm not really sure. There are certainly scripture that allude that it is NOT. And certainly Christ's baptism (for me) is a fullfillment. But there are other scripture that says that it IS. So I'm still out on that one. Personally *I* have been baptised, at the age of 10 (my own choice) believing, at that stage that it was essential for salvation. I haven't and won't push my kids into that and have just left them to find their own way with God.

    ETA - I'm leaning towards it being 'NOT' essential at this stage.

    What do others think?

    Want2bemummy I know a church that has broken away....actually know of a few 'home' churches who have gone back to how the original church used to fellowship, which is interesting. Everyone having a psalm, everyone being equal...taking turns etc etc, congregating in homes like the early church did
    Adult baptism is also a topic that I find interesting. I personally do not believe that infant baptism serves a purpose in their 'salvation'. In my church, babies are often brought up to be prayed over by the pastor, with the parents, as a 'dedication' to the Lord. We also chose not to have our baby dedicated by a pastor, because we have prayed over her and dedicated her to God since before she was born, and when she was born, we sat down with her and prayed over her and thanked God for her, asked him to help us raise her in a way that she will learn to know Him, etc.

    So, in terms of adult baptism, at this stage I believe that it is not neccessary for salvation… but Des has thrown me by saying that some scriptures say that it is neccesary! Do you have any examples Deserema? J I was baptised as a teenager, as my choice. I believe it is a declaration/ symbolic as leaving the old life behind, renewing, etc. BUT I don’t think it is necessary. I guess to me, when it comes to salvation, God judges the heart. If someone becomes a believer, but doesn’t get baptised because they didn’t have a chance yet, or just didn’t think to do it, and then they died, I don’t believe that this would affect their salvation, as their heart may still be in the right place, it just didn’t happen, IYKWIM. But someone who is a believer but has a rebellious heart, and says ‘I won’t be baptised because …. Xyz (I don’t know, I’m trying to think of a reason not to be baptised that demonstrates a rebellious/ unwilling heart!), then perhaps that would influence their salvation? I guess what I’m saying is, I believe that God sees our heart and will judge accordingly as to our salvation.

    Another topic I do find interesting is how literally you do take the bible. I don’t want to cause arguments and controversy, as so far, this thread has been very nice and friendly J but I do find it interesting to hear about how literally different people take the bible.

    Fiveinthebed, I think you brought it up that you see the bible as a book of myths that are basically rules for ‘good living’ (Sorry if I am quoting you wrong, I don’t know how to go back and quote a second person!) So I know that this is one way that people see the bible. Not literal, but a book of good stories, that tell us how to live a right life.

    I know of other christians who believe in the bible, but have varying degrees of how literally they take it…. For example, the creation of the world – I know many Christians who believe that it was not literally created in 7 days, but that 1 day can represent 1,000 years, etc. I think this belief also helps for some people to reconcile evolution and creation. I’m sure that there are other examples, but I can’t think of any.

    Then there are other christians who believe in the bible as being literal in every way. This is how I see the bible. I believe creation occurred in 7 days, that Noah’s ark actually happened, etc.

    I am interested to hear different beliefs of how literally you take the bible… is it a book of good stories, or did everything happen exactly as it is written?

  6. #36
    Guest Guest
    Interesting topics being discussed.
    (excuse if I don't make sense, it's late so I'll write it quickly)
    I remember having infant baptism explained to me that made sense and I've also had this discussion with someone who was mortified I was baptizing my children.
    Anyway, basically scriptures aside, it's a symbol from us as parents to God that while we are responsible for this child and teaching this child, we'll raise them in our faith and teach what we know about God so that they'll grow with good faith and morals. It's also introducing the child to the church and having the be welcomed and becoming part of the community.
    I know it's simple but it makes sense to me. Giving my children a faith and being part of a church and community I believe gives a sense of belonging and a path to God, the way I know it. When they're older and can think and make decisions, they'll ofcourse question and pave their own path to God (like we all did really) but while I'm responsible and teaching them I can only show them my path and hold them with me (if that makes sense) do baptizing symbolizes that.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Guest For This Useful Post:

    Cinderella82  (01-03-2012)

  8. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    599
    Thanks
    362
    Thanked
    413
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    Interesting topics being discussed.
    (excuse if I don't make sense, it's late so I'll write it quickly)
    I remember having infant baptism explained to me that made sense and I've also had this discussion with someone who was mortified I was baptizing my children.
    Anyway, basically scriptures aside, it's a symbol from us as parents to God that while we are responsible for this child and teaching this child, we'll raise them in our faith and teach what we know about God so that they'll grow with good faith and morals. It's also introducing the child to the church and having the be welcomed and becoming part of the community.
    I know it's simple but it makes sense to me. Giving my children a faith and being part of a church and community I believe gives a sense of belonging and a path to God, the way I know it. When they're older and can think and make decisions, they'll ofcourse question and pave their own path to God (like we all did really) but while I'm responsible and teaching them I can only show them my path and hold them with me (if that makes sense) do baptizing symbolizes that.

    That does make sense, and I think that it is sometimes really helpful to our faith to do 'symbolic' things... whether we believe that they are neccessary for salvation, or whether we believe that we would still be saved regardless, but we just want to demonstrate an aspect our faith, etc, I know that it can be helpful to do symbolic things to demonstrate what we believe in.

    Sometimes, too, I believe that God doesn't see things as 'neccesary', but it is beneficial for our own heart condition. For example, I believe that all of my sins were forgiven on the cross, so I don't need to sit here every day and list my sins and say 'God, please forgive me for this and this and that'. He has already forgiven me, I don't need to ask for forgiveness. But sometimes, I do say, 'God, I feel like I have failed in this particular area. I know I have sinned. Please forgive me, and help me to become more christ-like in my character'. Although I don't believe I 'need’ to do that, symbolically, I am submitting myself to Christ, having a contrite heart, recognising where I need to change, etc.

    Soooo…. Not meaning to digress, but…. Yes, I do see the value in doing symbolic things in your faith, and if infant baptism is an important symbol to you, I think that’s great

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Cinderella82 For This Useful Post:

    Deserama  (03-03-2012)

  10. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    984
    Thanks
    238
    Thanked
    313
    Reviews
    1
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 posts
    "He that believeth and is baptised shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:16
    I believe that belief, salvation and baptism are all intertwined. To be 'saved' you need to both believe and be baptised.

    The Greek word from which we get 'baptism' essentially means 'submerge'. Baptism is full immersion in water. Acts 8:38 shows this: "and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptised him." If baptism did not require submergence, as the word itself suggests, then it would not have been necessary to go down into the water. Christ himself was baptised by being submerged - "And Jesus, when he was baptised, went up straightway out of the water:" To have come out of the water he must have been in it.

    "Believe and be baptised." Belief must come before baptism. In the New Testament we only read about people who believed being baptised. There are no recorded examples of unbelieving people being baptised. And so, I don't believe in the baptism of babies, as babies cannot be 'baptised' in the Biblical sense. You must be capable of making the decision for yourself. Nobody can take it for you.

    Spiritually, the simple act of baptism is very important. By being baptised your sins are washed away: "Arise, and be baptised, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16), "Repent, and be baptised every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins," (Acts 2:38). By being baptised you join with Jesus in his death so that you can join him in resurrection: "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptised into Jesus Christ were baptised into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection," (Romans 6:3-6). You also become heirs to the promises made to Abraham: "For as many of you as have been baptised into Christ have put on Christ. ... And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise," (Galatians 3:27, 29).

    "Baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." 1 Peter 3:21

  11. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    4,382
    Thanks
    4,454
    Thanked
    1,339
    Reviews
    0
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 postsAmber Star - 2,000 posts
    Subscribing = )

  12. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    984
    Thanks
    238
    Thanked
    313
    Reviews
    1
    Achievements:Topaz Star - 500 posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post
    Sometimes, too, I believe that God doesn't see things as 'neccesary', but it is beneficial for our own heart condition. For example, I believe that all of my sins were forgiven on the cross, so I don't need to sit here every day and list my sins and say 'God, please forgive me for this and this and that'. He has already forgiven me, I don't need to ask for forgiveness. But sometimes, I do say, 'God, I feel like I have failed in this particular area. I know I have sinned. Please forgive me, and help me to become more christ-like in my character'. Although I don't believe I 'need’ to do that, symbolically, I am submitting myself to Christ, having a contrite heart, recognising where I need to change, etc.
    I think confessing sins is a great way to reflect on how you are going with everything, but we are also told 1 John 1:9, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I think it's much easier to ignore the things we need to work on if we don't list them.

    THIS, I think is a very, very difficult commandment and something I don't do well at all. How often do you tell people your honest downfalls...?
    James 5:16 "Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."


    As a side note re: baptism. When I say 'adult baptism I mean whoever is old enough to truly believe and understand the act of baptism and that it means a commitment for the rest of their lives. I was baptised when I was a few weeks off being 18, as I felt that I was ready to commit my life and knew fully what I was doing. My husband was baptised when he was 21. I know others that were baptised at 12, 15, 30... It all depends on spiritual maturity.


 

Similar Threads

  1. 'For the Bible tells me so' ~ Homosexuality.
    By FiveInTheBed in forum Religion / Spirituality
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 03-07-2012, 17:07

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
free weekly newsletters | sign up now!
who are these people who write great posts? meet our hubbub authors!
Learn how you can contribute to the hubbub!

reviews
learn how you can become a reviewer!

competitions

forum - chatting now
christmas gift guidesee all Red Stocking
Boody Organic Bamboo Baby Wear
Softer than your bub's bum Boody Organic Bamboo Baby Wear
Australia's favourite eco brand has delivered a gorgeous baby collection. Made from organic bamboo, Boody's extraordinarily soft and stretchy, skin-friendly tops, bottoms, onesies, bibs and wraps don't 'cost the earth'. Get 20% OFF! Code BUBHUB16.
sales & new stuffsee all
True Fairies
True Fairies is the first interactive website where children can engage and speak with a real fairy through the unique webcam fairy portal. Each session is tailored to the child, and is filled with enchantment and magic.
Visit website to find out more!
featured supporter
Shapland Swim Schools
Semi private learn to swim classes for a maximum of 3 children in specialized heated teaching pools. Our swim schools are located across Brisbane, Ipswich and the Sunshine Coast, ensuring there's a school near you.
gotcha
X

Pregnant for the first-time?

Not sure where to start? We can help!

Our Insider Programs for pregnancy first-timers will lead you step-by-step through the 14 Pregnancy Must Dos!