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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by maria02 View Post
    Well, you could just believe the Bible when it says the earth was flooded.
    However, there are some people that don't believe the Bible so these articles were written for people like them.
    I'll look for an "actual scientific" article on why the Flood could have happened when someone provides me with an "actual scientific" article why the Flood couldn't have happened!
    Give me scientific prove that says Tiddalik the Frog didn't drink up ALL the waters and dry up the land! ..and that is wasn't wombat that made him laugh and replenish the rivers!!




    ..see this is why I love different cultures. There is ACTUALLY a water holding frog found in Central Australia that goes underground during dry periods and emerges in the rain to absorb large amouts of water and feed and mate.
    This is 'respected' Dreamtime..and I love that they have taken observations from the land around them and made stories to go with it. I don't know how many people believe the story to be TRUE though... an awesome story passed on through generations to explain the complexity of our land in the best way they knew how, with teh only knowledge they had.


  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by SarahTamar View Post
    But in Jesus's time most if not all of the followers of the main religion didn't believe what he was saying and he was crucified because of his heresy. How do you know that this wont happen again? Maybe god has found new ways of expressing himself and wont be recognised because all the those that follow the bible are looking for the wrong signs in the new prophet.
    There won't be a new prophet. God doesn't need to send Jesus again- he died for our sins once. He doesn't need to again. There won't be another (apologies to any Jews reading this, I'm not trying to offend, just explaining how it is in Christianity) Jewish Messiah coming- he has already come. The next big thing is when God returns to earth to take all who follow him to heaven - and although we don't know just how this is going to happen and there are a few different ideas floating around out there, we do know that we're not going to be able to miss it!

    I have no doubt that God still speaks to people- he has spoken to me and many of my friends before! Whether or not it is backed up by Scripture is the key issue. If what they are saying isn't backed up by Scripture- then what they are saying is not from God.

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  4. #303
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    Ok, so over the last 10 or so pages (lol), lots of people brought up little things that I’d love to continue discussing, but have forgotten them all.
    Justwanttobeamummy – I’m interested to hear more on your views on the Trinity. I personally believe in God, the Father, Jesus, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. But I do know that ‘trinity’ is not a term found in the bible (I think!), but it was made up by man, as was man’s attempt to explain God a 3 separate parts, but the same part. I’d love to know what you believe. Also, if you don’t mind answering, what is your religious background/ denomination/ etc? I know that often people don’t want to put a specific label on it, I was just curious to find out J If anyone else has anything to add about the trinity, I’d love to hear your thoughts, too.

    Deserema – thanks for those scriptures about baptism. I’m interested to hear about your upbriniging in the Revival Centres International (if I wrote that correctly).

    Fiveinthebed – context!

    Ok, so I definitely see your point about Noah and the Ark (I think I do anyway). Like I have already said, I take the bible 100% literally, that what was written was what God wanted to have said. So, in some ways, I tend to agree with Maria02, and when I checked over the verses she provided about the ark, it does seem fairly clear that it says ‘all of the earth, everything under the heavens’, etc.
    BUT I do agree that the context and culture of the day would have influenced how it was written. Perhaps it WAS only ‘the whole earth’, as only a portion of the Earth that the writers knew as was the whole Earth at the time. Perhaps it has not been translated correctly from Hebrew? (I wish I knew Hebrew!) So I absolutely do see that it is entirely possible.
    I guess the important thing for me is that, whether it was the ENTIRE earth, or just a portion of the earth as known to the people of the day, either way, I believe that the story is true. I don’t need to rationalise it to make it more ‘believable’, if that makes sense. If it is a completely plausible story, or a completely impossible story, either way, I believe that it happened. Again – because of faith J As someone put earlier (Deserema?), faith is the evidence of things unseen. I don’t need evidence, because my faith is stronger than that. But please, I am NOT criticizing if someone does need to rationalise the story and make it plausible in order to be able to believe it. If that is how you see the bible, I think that is completely valid for you J But I personally, believe the story either way.

    Another topic on the subject of context, if you are interested in discussing it, is related to how women are seen in the bible (Uh oh – I hope I don’t start something controversial). In 1 Corinthians 14:34 - 35, the women are instructed not to speak in church, to be silent. Because of this, I feel that women were silenced in the Church for a long time. But I have read that, in church at those times, women would loudly question their husbands, like ‘WHAT DID HE MEAN WHEN HE SAID THAT, DEAR?’, when the speaker was trying to preach, which made it difficult for people to listen and for the speaker to speak. So, I think when the women were told to be silent, it was more of a ‘please stop asking your husbands questions during church, and distracting people from listening to the speaker. Save the questions for when you are at home. So, when you put the verse into context, it really doesn’t mean that women are ‘lesser’ beings than men in the church – just that everyone should be respectful of the person speaking.

    So, when I say I take the bible literally, I don’t mean that I agree that women should still have to be silent in church, and shouldn’t be allowed to preach, etc. just because it’s written in the bible. I think that they were trying to set a standard of people not chitter chattering through the service. I personally don’t know of any churches that do not allow women to speak, etc. and in my church, a woman can be a pastor just as much as a man can – but I’m sure that there are some religions where that is not the case.

    Anyone else care to add anything in relation to their religion or denomination?

  5. #304
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    Can't speak, can't wear pants or anything revealing, can't enter the church or kiss icons while on menses, hmmm what else?

  6. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post

    Fiveinthebed – context!

    Ok, so I definitely see your point about Noah and the Ark (I think I do anyway). Like I have already said, I take the bible 100% literally, that what was written was what God wanted to have said. So, in some ways, I tend to agree with Maria02, and when I checked over the verses she provided about the ark, it does seem fairly clear that it says ‘all of the earth, everything under the heavens’, etc.
    BUT I do agree that the context and culture of the day would have influenced how it was written. Perhaps it WAS only ‘the whole earth’, as only a portion of the Earth that the writers knew as was the whole Earth at the time. Perhaps it has not been translated correctly from Hebrew? (I wish I knew Hebrew!) So I absolutely do see that it is entirely possible.

    I guess the important thing for me is that, whether it was the ENTIRE earth, or just a portion of the earth as known to the people of the day, either way, I believe that the story is true. I don’t need to rationalise it to make it more ‘believable’, if that makes sense. If it is a completely plausible story, or a completely impossible story, either way, I believe that it happened. Again – because of faith J As someone put earlier (Deserema?), faith is the evidence of things unseen. I don’t need evidence, because my faith is stronger than that. But please, I am NOT criticizing if someone does need to rationalise the story and make it plausible in order to be able to believe it. If that is how you see the bible, I think that is completely valid for you J But I personally, believe the story either way.
    Thankyou for getting it.



    And yes I know Faith is strong in some people and that is why they don't accept evidence of man changing and adapting physically over time, because it goes against their belief.

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    I've entered the thread late and there is so much to address I would have to quote 50 different posts lol I'm glad to see this thread has stayed open, the last one was mine and it ended really badly.

    Quote Originally Posted by NancyBlackett View Post
    Isn't the whole point of faith that you have to make a leap - beyond ordinary logic and knowledge. You have to out aside your credulity and just accept that there are things you don't or can't ever fully understand?

    I struggle with that aspect of it because I have to 'know' things.

    But I think that is why I appreciate and respect people with genuine and strong faith.
    I guess bc in our scientific world most stuff can be proved or disproved. I have thought a great deal about the christian religion and know a bit given I was raised and educated catholic. But as a logical person, creation, the flood, god, makes no scientific or logical sense. When we have facts to explain creation, the flood (which they believe was contained to a section of the middle east not the world) then that's what I fall back on. That's not me knocking religious belief, just explaining your question of why some people can't make the leap as you say.

    Quote Originally Posted by maria02 View Post
    Well, you could just believe the Bible when it says the earth was flooded.
    However, there are some people that don't believe the Bible so these articles were written for people like them.
    I'll look for an "actual scientific" article on why the Flood could have happened when someone provides me with an "actual scientific" article why the Flood couldn't have happened!

    With respect I don't hold much credence in text written by an ancient people that didn't understand science. Given there was no telephone, TV and no possible way of someone in the US communicating with someone in the middle east within a small time frame, it would seem difficult if not impossible to believe the Middle East could know the *whole* world was flooded. Added to that, the approx time of this they think was around 4000 BC. To them, the world was the middle east. They didn't even know much of the rest of the world existed.

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  9. #307
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  11. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I've entered the thread late and there is so much to address I would have to quote 50 different posts lol I'm glad to see this thread has stayed open, the last one was mine and it ended really badly.



    I guess bc in our scientific world most stuff can be proved or disproved. I have thought a great deal about the christian religion and know a bit given I was raised and educated catholic. But as a logical person, creation, the flood, god, makes no scientific or logical sense. When we have facts to explain creation, the flood (which they believe was contained to a section of the middle east not the world) then that's what I fall back on. That's not me knocking religious belief, just explaining your question of why some people can't make the leap as you say.




    With respect I don't hold much credence in text written by an ancient people that didn't understand science. Given there was no telephone, TV and no possible way of someone in the US communicating with someone in the middle east within a small time frame, it would seem difficult if not impossible to believe the Middle East could know the *whole* world was flooded. Added to that, the approx time of this they think was around 4000 BC. To them, the world was the middle east. They didn't even know much of the rest of the world existed.
    People travelled and they spoke about what they knew. Living in one part of the world doesn't mean they didn't know there were other parts to the world??
    Because we have technology doesn't mean we are smarter. Ancient people invented what we take for granted today, they didn't use computers to design buildings, they invented geometry, they invented astronomy, they invented things that science wouldn't be possible with today had it not been for ancient civilisations.
    Its abit naive to think people today are smarter than they were back then.

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  13. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I've entered the thread late and there is so much to address I would have to quote 50 different posts lol I'm glad to see this thread has stayed open, the last one was mine and it ended really badly.



    I guess bc in our scientific world most stuff can be proved or disproved. I have thought a great deal about the christian religion and know a bit given I was raised and educated catholic. But as a logical person, creation, the flood, god, makes no scientific or logical sense. When we have facts to explain creation, the flood (which they believe was contained to a section of the middle east not the world) then that's what I fall back on. That's not me knocking religious belief, just explaining your question of why some people can't make the leap as you say.




    With respect I don't hold much credence in text written by an ancient people that didn't understand science. Given there was no telephone, TV and no possible way of someone in the US communicating with someone in the middle east within a small time frame, it would seem difficult if not impossible to believe the Middle East could know the *whole* world was flooded. Added to that, the approx time of this they think was around 4000 BC. To them, the world was the middle east. They didn't even know much of the rest of the world existed.
    I agree with you re making the leap. But like I said, I think that is why I deeply respect those who can. They're willing to jump off the ledge when I'm not.

    Yet I'm prepared to live my life by the same principles.

  14. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    Its abit naive to think people today are smarter than they were back then.
    They didn't have the same knowledge.





    Since the 18th century they have come to be regarded as completely separate disciplines. Astronomy, the study of objects and phenomena originating beyond the Earth's atmosphere, is a science and is a widely-studied academic discipline.

    Astrology, which uses the apparent positions of celestial objects as the basis for psychology, prediction of future events, and other esoteric knowledge, is not a science and is typically defined as a form of divination.


    (yes that was a cut and paste - but everyone else seems to be doing it :P)

    There is a difference.


 

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