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  1. #261
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    Fair enough! I'll have a read, and I'll BBL

  2. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    I was refering to Noah and the Ark and have explained that my above post - sorry I missed this post while I was typing
    Oh ok, me and you had this discussion pages and pages back. Or rather I gave you my analogy on it.

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by OurLittleBlessing View Post
    On the subject of reading and interpreting the bible....

    There are a few things that most Christians 'bring' to their study of the bible

    1. The belief that the bible is written by God, with man simply being his instrument. While the authors wouldn't have known more than their own culture and world, God did. I believe that this makes the bible relevant for all periods in time, and for all ages and backgrounds. So context to me means context within the bible as a whole.... I have noooo idea if this makes sense to anyone, but these are some of my thoughts.

    2. Also, regarding original sin. I must admit I am not very familiar with that term, but I'll try to answer and hope that I have understood it correctly.
    Although sin entered the world through Adam and Eve's sin, if it hadn't have been them, it would have been someone else. In other words we are ALL sinful. I think the word 'sin' is often misunderstood. The world in full of really good people, in fact, some of the nicest, best, people I know aren't Christians. Being sinful or 'sin free' is not just about doing good things or abstaining from bad things, but rather putting ourselves in the place of God, because this is human nature, we are all sinful.

    At the crux (no pun intended) of the Christian belief is the belief that we are all sinful and the consequence of sin is death and suffering... but it doesn't stop there, if we believe in Him and that Jesus (the only perfect man ever to live, also God's son) died and came back to life, taking the punishment for us on himself, then we will have eternal life.

    My brain is so foggy today, so I have no idea if I have made sense, but I hope this helps someone at least a little bit.
    I don't know if anyone read my link, but this is how the translation differs from orthodox and roman catholic.


    Followi
    ng the holy Fathers, Orthodoxy teaches that Christ, on the Cross, gave "His life a ransom for many" (Matt. 20:28). "For even the Son of man came not to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many" (Mark 10:45). The "ransom" is paid to the grave. As the Lord revealed to the Prophet Hosea (Hosea 13:14), "I will ransom them (us) from the power of the grave, I will redeem them from death." In a sense, He pays the ransom to the devil who has the keeper of the grave and holds the power of death (Heb. 2:14).
    The man Christ voluntarily gave Himself on the Cross. He died for all ("a ransom for many" or "the many"). But He rose from the dead in His crucified body. Death had no power to hold Him. It has no power over anyone. The human race is redeemed from the grave, from the devil. Free of the devil is to be free of death and sin. To be free of these, we become like God (deification) and may live with Him forever.
    According to Roman Catholic theology, God became man in order to satisfy the divine Justice which was offended by the sin of Adam. In other words, by his sin Adam offended the infinite God and, therefore, his sin had infinite consequences. It was not within the power of sinful and finite man to make amends, for the sin of Adam ("original sin") passed to us; but it is our obligation to do so. Only Christ, Who was God and man, could pay this "debt of honor." He pays the debt by dying on the Cross. His death makes up for what Adam had done; the offense is removed. God is no longer angry with man. Christ rises from the dead, the promise or "earnest" of the believing man's future. For a long time, the Latins, whether among ordinary Catholics or intellectuals, little attention was given to the idea of deification. Not much attention was devoted to the concepts necessary to understanding this doctrine.


  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    Oh ok, me and you had this discussion pages and pages back. Or rather I gave you my analogy on it.
    ..the pyramid thing??



    seriously?

    did you read my post refering to the link someone posted abot Noah family??

  5. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmyboys View Post
    What I find very interesting about the bible, testaments and other books that combine to make the stories widely referred in religion today is that it was all written by different people who were said to be speaking the word of god. Who is to know in this day and age which parts may hold some 'truth' and which parts are myth or ramblings of people full of self importance or are delusional.
    In this day and age there are still people who profess to talk the word of god and they are often ridiculed, suspected of mental illness or accused of fraud. Can you believe in the old words of god and not be open to new ones. An example


    There are a number of things written in this thread that are similar to this passage, what do people think about modern day prophets (if that's what you want to call them?)
    How do I know the Bible is true? Faith. Simply faith.

    Yes there are people today that claim to be speaking the word of God- and simply put, does what they say back up the Bible? If not, then they're not actually speaking words God has given them.

    The quote you posted doesn't back up Scripture.
    Last edited by TheMadHatter; 03-03-2012 at 12:44.

  6. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    ..the pyramid thing??



    seriously?

    did you read my post refering to the link someone posted abot Noah family??
    I gave you my analogy on the validity of the story in regards to the structure and whether it was possible to build, not about his family.
    I spent alot of my time writing those posts. If you're not going to respect that and be rude about it then there's no point is there.
    Maybe someone else can spend the time answering you.
    Although I'm still not sure what the question was or your answer to it, but never mind. I thought you were asking about Lilith but then it went to Noahs Ark. What I got was what you thought about womens roles in the bible and how the earth was populated by Noahs family, marsupials and why the animals didn't eat each other. Is that what you're talking about?

  7. #267
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    Thanks des for reminding us to keep this on track

    Fiveinthebed - I'm definitely interested in coming back to discuss co.text with u, in regards to Noah & also other examples in the bible that are relevant in context to the culture of when.it was written I'm sure we can all contribute positively to that discussion from all different viewpoints. I don't have time now but will be back later- probably not until tonight, lol. I really hope this thread stays nice and on track so we can get to it!

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    okay...this is the link I was talking about.

    If you scroll down you'll see a map it shows what people in the time of the Bible considered to be "THE WORLD".

    So when I ask about the Ark for example... it WOULD make sense to me if someone said, 'well in CONTEXT, it was written with the idea that the 'world' did not exist outside of those borders'

    THAT makes sense. But it's when it gets taken OUT of context and put into modern times.. to say there was a great flood that covered 'the world' - we imagine what WE know as the 'world' ...do you see what I mean?

    Me quoting that link and pointing that out actaully is in FAVOUR for your argument. Saying 'who knows?' and 'maybe god scattered other animals around to other countries for man to enjoy' ..doesn't actaully fit into the CONTEXT of the bible.


    So people may take it literally.... but you blow it out of proportion when you picture the WORLD as we know it today compared to what it was back then. That's NOT to say that the other parts of the globe didn't exist..it's just that the people who wrote the bible didn't know of it.

    I brought up the story of Lilith because I was interested to see who accepts teh Bible for simply what it is today and teh manner in which it is delivered OR who takes in ALL the mythology and stories of the time?
    But fine - if you don't wish to explore that, don't.


    Can I just say that I DO find it incredibly rude that the OP of this thread is commanding people to 'ignore them' regarding people - like myself who are trying to learn more... and share knowledge.
    I do actually know christians who accept evolution, who quite openly say they think the bible is basically a book of fables - but they can't deny the existence of 'something' as a force in our world, and they choose to look to the cultural idea of morals that have stemmed from these books to help them make decisions in life. I know one that think heaven and hell is a load of poop. But she still calls herself a christian, sends her children to a catholic school etc. It is for some people a lifestyle -- and THAT is what I (persoanlly - i can't speak for other people) am trying to understand.
    Would you turn to them and tell them to leave a conversation?

    THIS is what worries me to be honest about religion being 'taught' in schools.
    My kids are bascially being told - if you don't believe what we do ..get out!
    That, deserama is what you have just suggested.

    DPs cousin has the most strongest faith in God of ANYONE I know, she has been fighting cancer for teh last 5 years, even though she was told 5years ago that she had 6 months to live. The medical intervention she has had is unbelievable.
    Her faith gives her strength.I would NEVER think of attempting to deny her of that. but- she is an itelligent woman, and incredible woman - and if she chose to openly discuss the beginning of mankind - i would discuss that with her.


    'faith' is completely different to supporting teh notion that ALL men and women on Earth as WE know it came from a Hebrew family that got washed away during a storm.
    Thanks for posting the link, but I'm still not sure what you're getting at.

    Are you trying to say that just because Noah & co. didn't know about any more of the world outside a small part of the Middle East, the flood didn't cover the whole world?

    We don't know much about the universe apart from our own solar system, but I don't think many of us would say "oh we don't know anything about it so therefore nothing must happen there"

    I believe the Bible is 100% true. I don't pick and choose what to believe, I believe it all. And therefore when it says the flood covered the whole world, it covered the whole world. Not just the part Noah was familiar with but the whole world.

    If you are looking to understand people that call themselves Christians but don't believe the Bible, the existance of heaven and hell, creationism, but think there could be some force out there- that's not Christianity, it sounds more agnostic. Sure they may be using the name but without accepting any of the central aspects of the faith it means nothing!

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  10. #269
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    By the way, Lily I really liked your pyramid analogy, it was a great way of looking at it

  11. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    I gave you my analogy on the validity of the story in regards to the structure and whether it was possible to build, not about his family.
    I spent alot of my time writing those posts. If you're not going to respect that and be rude about it then there's no point is there.
    Maybe someone else can spend the time answering you.
    Although I'm still not sure what the question was or your answer to it, but never mind. I thought you were asking about Lilith but then it went to Noahs Ark. What I got was what you thought about womens roles in the bible and how the earth was populated by Noahs family, marsupials and why the animals didn't eat each other. Is that what you're talking about?
    I'm not being rude.

    I skimmed back over the post and the only analogy I could find was the Pyramid one.
    I've actually taken the time to look at teh link someone provided re Noah
    [no - not talking about Lilith, I've been told as she doesn't exist n teh bible we shouldn't bring her into it]
    so...I looked at the link and spent some of my time writing out a post about 'context'
    If you're up for a discussion about that?


    My point is - when you start looking at logistics like marsupials going to other countries and not being eaten ect - it DOESN'T make sense -- becasue THAT is NOT the way it was written back then.

    I find it baffling that people would prefer to say 'Hmm..I don't know - who knows?..maybe god spread them around?'
    When it is really more logical and really, I think pays respect to The Bible, to say... 'The people who wrote about Noah and his family use the word 'world' as it was to them THEN. IE - the land within a certain radius of Jerulslm'

    This is not dismissing your faith - it s looking at it's origins


 

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