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  1. #11
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    So Jews believe that Satan is an angel that God chooses...one angel? Any angle? Could satan also be a person? So anybody that is there to deceive etc?

    I get what you're saying about the 'eye for an eye' thing Regina, I've actually had someone bring that up to me many years ago claiming that the bible contradicts itself because in one part it says 'eye for an eye' but another it says 'turn the other cheek'. They simply didn't understand nor did they try to understand the story behind the comments made my God, most don't understand the differences between the covenants and why. Heck most christians don't understand it either!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elijahs Mum View Post
    Being Jewish I can comment from our perspective if that's ok
    Jews don't believe in Satan, in the Hebrew Bible ( old testament) "the Satan" was one of G-DS angels who appeared in the book of Job , his role was to challenge people, his job was to make choosing good over evil enough of a challenge so it can be a meaningful choice

    Rabbis would never believe any being had G-d like power other than G-d ( which is why The Satan had to ask permission from him to test Job)
    This is the only time he was ever mentioned

    The original Jewish texts are written in Hebrew and Aramaic , apparently they were translated into Latin and Greek then English so yes i think a lot was lost in translation !

    Grrr, I just wrote a reply and lost it!

    I do believe that back when the bible was translated into Latin and then into English, that meaning was easily lost in translation - at a time of corruption in the church, the church leaders of the day did not want christians to be able to understand and read the bible for themselves, because it was sometimes used to serve the purposes of man.

    These days, as I said, with the bible being translated straight from Hebrew into English (and the NT I believe straight from Greek into English), a lot less meaning is lost - christians are much more aware and discerning, and do not blindly accept what is fed, and do expect the bible to be based on original language. How do you read the jewish bible? Do you read it in English, or Hebrew?

    I am interested to hear about your views on 'The Satan' in the OT and the book of Job. What are your views on Isaiah 14, when it discusses Satan as a fallen star? i have heard it said that this could be referring not to Satan but to the ancient King of Babylon, so I would be interested to hear if this is what you believe, or soemthing else.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserama View Post
    So Jews believe that Satan is an angel that God chooses...one angel? Any angle? Could satan also be a person? So anybody that is there to deceive etc?

    I get what you're saying about the 'eye for an eye' thing Regina, I've actually had someone bring that up to me many years ago claiming that the bible contradicts itself because in one part it says 'eye for an eye' but another it says 'turn the other cheek'. They simply didn't understand nor did they try to understand the story behind the comments made my God, most don't understand the differences between the covenants and why. Heck most christians don't understand it either!
    Yes, and I can see their confusion - if you do not truly understand the gospel, it would seem that the bible contradicts itself! I agree that many christians don't understand it, I am always learning more about God's grace, and his fulfillment of the law, and understanding that I am now under a new covenant. It really irks me when people talk about church leaders, and how we are under their authority, we need to seek them first for direction for our lives, etc - sorry, but I go directly to God! When Jesus died on the cross, the temple curtain tore in two, opening up the most holy place, where only the Levites were previously allowed to go. Now I may approach the throne of God freely whenever I want! I don't need to go through Church Leadership to speak to God.

    But anyway, I digress....

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post
    Yes, and I can see their confusion - if you do not truly understand the gospel, it would seem that the bible contradicts itself! I agree that many christians don't understand it, I am always learning more about God's grace, and his fulfillment of the law, and understanding that I am now under a new covenant. It really irks me when people talk about church leaders, and how we are under their authority, we need to seek them first for direction for our lives, etc - sorry, but I go directly to God! When Jesus died on the cross, the temple curtain tore in two, opening up the most holy place, where only the Levites were previously allowed to go. Now I may approach the throne of God freely whenever I want! I don't need to go through Church Leadership to speak to God.

    But anyway, I digress....
    I just realised that this could sound disrespectful to someone who does believe in going through a pastor, priest, etc. to communicate with God... I hope I haven't offended anyone, and I intend no disrespect. I don't like when someone puts it on ME that I have to go to a church leader to speak to God, but if someone else feels like THEY want to go to their church leader to ask direction and speak with God, I respect that as well as their choice of what they believe is right for their life

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northerly View Post
    I've never heard anyone explain how they know which parts of the Bible are true (usually Jesus) and which are metaphorical (usually the talking snake). As Prof. Jerry Coyne puts it: In science, a falsified hypothesis gets tossed on the scrap heap; in religion, a falsified hypothesis becomes a metaphor.
    About this, I guess I've never had a problem with believing that things in the Bibe happened literally. I've always just believed that they happened because I believe that with God anything is possible. I also find that the Bible has so much less meaning to me if I don't think people actually lived out those stories. I know some people who believe that the creation story AND evolution can both be true (i.e: a thousand years is like a day to God, therefore maybe the world wasn't made in 'days' as we perceive them to be), but I have always just believed it how it's written. I mean, who am I to put limits on what God did or didn't do?

    That's just what I think

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Justwant2beamummy For This Useful Post:

    OurLittleBlessing  (01-03-2012)

  7. #16
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    I think people think that because most christians really are under the authority of the church leadership but not everyone is though. I'm not. I grew up in a cult so I am soooooo not LOL

    I literally had to strip everything that I previously knew away and start from scratch and it's been an exciting journey. That's why I started this thread because I really get a lot out of different perspectives, revelations and thoughts.

  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justwant2beamummy View Post
    About this, I guess I've never had a problem with believing that things in the Bibe happened literally. I've always just believed that they happened because I believe that with God anything is possible. I also find that the Bible has so much less meaning to me if I don't think people actually lived out those stories. I know some people who believe that the creation story AND evolution can both be true (i.e: a thousand years is like a day to God, therefore maybe the world wasn't made in 'days' as we perceive them to be), but I have always just believed it how it's written. I mean, who am I to put limits on what God did or didn't do?

    That's just what I think
    I agree - I take the bible literally, as in, God created the world, in 7 days. He said 'let there be light' and there was light. I find that if I believe that God is a powerful creator, it is easy to believe that he can do anything. There are some parts of the bible that are metaphorical, but I think that it is fairly clear which ones, eg, parables. Also, I find many parts of the book of Revelation can be difficult to really understand the meaning - but I think perhaps it was purposely written that way.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post
    I just realised that this could sound disrespectful to someone who does believe in going through a pastor, priest, etc. to communicate with God... I hope I haven't offended anyone, and I intend no disrespect. I don't like when someone puts it on ME that I have to go to a church leader to speak to God, but if someone else feels like THEY want to go to their church leader to ask direction and speak with God, I respect that as well as their choice of what they believe is right for their life
    Oh yeh...me too - oops! I've gone to church leaders in the past when I felt I needed to so yeh...

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justwant2beamummy View Post
    About this, I guess I've never had a problem with believing that things in the Bibe happened literally. I've always just believed that they happened because I believe that with God anything is possible. I also find that the Bible has so much less meaning to me if I don't think people actually lived out those stories. I know some people who believe that the creation story AND evolution can both be true (i.e: a thousand years is like a day to God, therefore maybe the world wasn't made in 'days' as we perceive them to be), but I have always just believed it how it's written. I mean, who am I to put limits on what God did or didn't do?

    That's just what I think
    A good way of putting it yeh. We are the only ones who can limit him.

  11. #20
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    I don't have time to add anything constructive, but just wanted to say thanks for starting this thread Des!

    I'll be back later


 

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