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  1. #1
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    Default Pcos - egg quality improvement doing back to back cycles?

    Just a thought that crossed my mind today and I may be completely off track so interested to hear any opinions on this theory...

    So most of us with pcos get put on the pill before cycling to control AF but my fs also said it gets rid of the little "sh!tty eggs" caused by the pcos. So has anyone got a better quality haul doing a cycle back to back? giving the body less of a chance to make them? Do you reckon the eggs would be better, worse or the same?

    Interested to hear quality and quantity stories of anyone that has done back to back cycles...and anyone that has thoughts on my theory...

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    Hi nicole83, I dont have pcos but read a fair bit on it. I doubt FS will allow pcos patients to do back to back as already the risk of OHSS is high. He will probably wants you to at least take a month off before cycling again. I am more lower ovarian reserve so I wont OHSS but even with this, it takes a bit of convincing before my FS allows me to do back to back.

    I have two at least two successes with low ovarian reserve patients getting their BFPs with back to back cycles.

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    Nicole83 - I have PCOS and did most of my cycles close together, ie, as soon as AF arrived I started back on the pill then cycled again. I did alot of cycles over 2.5 years. The only time I had a 'break' was after my m/cs. Not all my cycles were down regs, I did do some flare/antagonists but didn't get any better results. My egg hauls varied, in the beginning around 11-13 collected but it dwindled down to 4 at one stage, it didn't matter how many were collected, I always ended up with the same result, 2 suitable embryos for transfer. My 2nd cycle was the only cycle my embryos were grown to day 5 & I had a couple frozen and one eventuated in a chem preg and the 2nd was a pregnancy that m/c at 10 weeks. Initially bcs I have pcos they expected me to OHSS but I never did. I was having egg quality issues. The idea to have the antagonist cycles was to reduce the number of eggs so they'd be better quality as there have been results with this theory but it didn't make any difference with me. Since my m/c I was put on DHEA to help with quality and over the time I took it I did see an improvement in the quality of my embryos, as they were way less fragmented than previous embryos. However I was still not getting pregnant so we looked into implantation issues and it turned out that I had ANA antibodies which can destroy embryos and/or cause miscarriage. My final cycle we decided to go back on a down reg cycle and include low dose pregnyl injections (20 units) with the fsh..this was to help boost my follicles and produce better eggs, I was also put on prednisolone and clexane to sort out the antibodies. This cycle produced the best quality embryos out of all my cycles. I had 21 follicles counted in the scan but only 11 eggs collected (the biggest haul since my 1st egg collection and I still didn't OHSS) Out of this I ended up with 2 excellent embryos, one was perfect without any fragmenting and the other had a tiny bit, and my daughter was the result.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Kismet For This Useful Post:

    Amandamoo  (18-02-2012)

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    Nicole83 - I've replied to both your posts, I hope the post above explains more to you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kismet View Post
    Nicole83 - I've replied to both your posts, I hope the post above explains more to you.
    Thank you kismet. I am keen to take some of these options to the FS. I am not sure about the antibodies thing. I wonder if this is something you always have or can get later on? Reason I ask is because we have a DD from our first cycle so wondering if that's a gauge as to weather I could have this antibodies...

    I think mostly for me it's improving egg quality now so we are trailing dhea I just hope it doesn't have an adverse affect on my pcos...

    Good luck with your next cycle

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    nicole83 - have you been tested for PCOS?? The reason I ask is because Wazza kept saying to me that I had it so I paid $250 to be tested and it came back negative

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amandamoo View Post
    nicole83 - have you been tested for PCOS?? The reason I ask is because Wazza kept saying to me that I had it so I paid $250 to be tested and it came back negative
    Hey amanda!

    Thats weird! So what test did you have that cost $250? Does wazza / qfg do it? Cos yeah he just says that I have it cos of the "pearl necklace" on one ovary.

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    nicole83 - yeah he kept saying it to me and I asked why he thinks it and he said I had a few symptoms so I asked to be tested. He said it was quite expensive but I wanted to rule it out so I had the test.
    I suppose at the end of the day it doesn't really matter ....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amandamoo View Post
    nicole83 - yeah he kept saying it to me and I asked why he thinks it and he said I had a few symptoms so I asked to be tested. He said it was quite expensive but I wanted to rule it out so I had the test.
    I suppose at the end of the day it doesn't really matter ....
    Is the test with Qfg? Wonder if id get more back after reaching the safety net? Yeah spose it doesn't really matter but would be good to know exactly what we're dealing with.

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    Amandamoo - I was diagnosed with pcos in my early 20's just by having a scan of my ovaries and a blood test for hormone levels. This was after a consult with a Dr where I had told him what my menstrual cycles had been like (they had virtually disappeared for about a year at that stage), also had massive mood swings and started losing my hair and couldn't control the pimples...I had quite a few of the usual symptoms including fluctuating weight gain later on. The dr strongly suspected I had it, mind you I had been to about 6 different docs before this that had told me it's normal for periods to be all over the shop when you come of the pill but I had been off it for quite some time by this. When I started ivf I was sent for more scans to check out my ovaries which confirmed what I'd already told them. My FS specialises in pcos and said symptoms are so diverse and vary from person to person, they usually diagnose someone to have it if they present with at least 2 or more of the symptoms, some people are borderline.

    Nicole83 - no they are not. A fellow bhubber I know had to go on clexane cos they found she had Factor 5 when she had several failed attempts after conceiving her 1st baby. I had 3 tests for ANA's over my ivf journey. I was told they are only present if there is a reason for them to be there. They ran the 1st test in the preliminary tests before I started and it was negative. The 2nd test was a borderline result but I don't know at what point this was done (I think about 12 months after I started) because I wasn't told the result until I had my 3rd test. This is a very sore point with me bcs the research I'd done indicated that borderline results are just as risky as positive results. If I had known about this result I could have been treated sooner hence why I was so pi$$ed off 6 cycles later. I only had the 3rd test done bcs I requested it after finding some info on it and discussing some options with my FS. I distinctly remember FS saying "yes well we will do that test bcs you've have a pregnancy and something could be there". If I didn't do that I probably would never have known. I also had to practically beg for the treatment of them in particular the prednisolone. I have a few friends going thru ivf as well and after several failed attempts, one of them had 2 m/c one after the other, I urged them to be tested and they both had positive results. This time around (I'm about to start ttc bub #2) my FS is just treating me 'as if I have them' scenario, he's not bothering with any test, just to cover all bases because there are a range of blood 'disorders' that affect fertility (ie, Factor 5, MTHR, NK cells) that are treated with the same protocol.
    I just read some interesting info on how our bodies develop antibodies to diseases etc as I just got my DD immunised and it has helped me understand a bit more about it. If you want to read up on it go to this website http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/conversations look for heading Understanding How Vaccines Work. I looked at it this way, our bodies respond the same way when it fights a germ and when it does the immune system remembers what it learned about how to protect the body against more infection or diseases (memory cells). So why wouldn't it do this when we are trying to get pregnant? The uterus is a hostile environment as it is, that is why so much sperm gets killed off in the process to win the race to the egg. Sometimes our bodies get a bit confused & don't recognise an embryo, it thinks it's a germ and tries to kill it off, so I believe these memory cells go into action when the body encounters the same "germ" again which could be our poor little embryos. Makes sense to me anyway. My 3rd test was soon after a cycle so I think the antibodies were still present and that's why it was a positive result.
    I will also mention my SIL had a prem baby born at 26 weeks (sadly he did not survive) and her going into premature labour had something to do with antibodies, I'm not sure what type as it was so long ago...OMG I just realised my little nephew would have been 22 today (aww luv you Bradley x) I have just teared up.
    Anyway back on topic. Once I was pregnant I had to stay on the clexane and prednisolone for the 1st trimester then my OB wanted me to take baby asprin (Cartia 100mg) until 36 weeks to minimise m/c and prem labour risk.

    Bottom line is, it's a simple blood test and it can't hurt to ask for it to be done, then you know one way or another. I have always thought after my experience and from what I know from other bubhubbers is that there is not enough thorough testing done in the beginnings of ivf, and before you know it you've invested loads of money and emotional heartache, frustration and hopelessness etc, and when all said and done a simple blood test could be the answer to all your problems. It's ridiculous that alot of clinics brush over some very important issues until it gets to this point, it's rather ignorant.
    Sorry, I will get off my soapbox now


 

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