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  1. #111
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    I honestly can't believe people are defending using guns to discipline children. This is ludicrous.
    Last edited by Veve; 12-02-2012 at 23:14. Reason: reference to specific bubhubber

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  3. #112
    Savingfishfromdrowning's Avatar
    Savingfishfromdrowning is offline If you can't change your fate, change your attitude
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tam-I-Am View Post
    Yes indeed. Children (who have unequal brain function by your claim) require to be treated with MORE respect, MORE love, need to have their rights MORE stridently defended than your average person who can do so for themselves. They require that society protects them MORE than adults. Not less.

    There have been many groups of people throughout history who have been considered to be unequal in terms of their rights or brain function. They have been terribly used an abused within the systems that supported that unequal treatment. Take out 'child' in your example and insert 'Aboriginal'. Or 'homosexual'. Or 'wife'. Or 'African American'. Or 'quadraplegic'.

    See how offensive it is?

    Children are less mature. They are not less human. Being less mature requires that we given them more protection, not less.
    *Sigh* Again, thanks for taking half my statement and twisting it to make me sound like a monster. Glad to see we can discuss something intellegently here.

    Children DO have unequal brain functioning, as do teenagers. Ask any doctor you know. Or better yet, ask your toddler. There is a reason people are not considered an adult until they are over 18 and have fewer priviledges until then.

    I didn't say anyone is less human. I said multiple times (in the rest of the post you partially quoted and in my other posts) that I don't think punishing misbehaviour is treating someone as less human.

    Children are less mature and need more guidence as to appropriate behaviour. I believe punishing inappropriate behaviour is an acceptable way to guide behaviour and does not dehumanise someone or damage them in any way. Please show me some research that says that taking a childs laptop when it has been used inappropriately is going to psychologically damage them and I might change my mind.

    Your manipulation of my statement, and inferred attack on my character, is highly offensive.

  4. #113
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    You know, I don't really care if people think shooting it is OTT or it's wonderful or whatever... to me, it's not exactly the biggest deal.

    What does strike me as interesting though, is the arguement about his property VS her property... etc.

    As a mother, I went and took all of DDs unused My Little Ponies and sold them. All of them. They sat there, unplayed with, taking up a lot of space (she had LOTS of them... lol). I did it behind her back, because I knew she would complain and whinge and nag me to keep them otherwise. Not because she was going to use them, just because she likes to collect every single thing she can and never get rid of it. I have a fear we'll see her on Hoarders as an adult. lol. (kinda joking, kinda not).

    ANYWAY... was that wrong of me? Going by some responses here, because these items were gifted to her, by either others or myself, they are hers and I have no right to touch them, basically.

    Does it depend on the age of the child as to when getting rid of their stuff is okay? Does it depend on their opinion of it? Does it depend on what the item is?

    TBH, I think everything a parent gets for their kids, with their own money, while their child is still a child (under 18)... is more "ON LEASE" to the child, rather than belonging to the child. If I get my daughter a computer and she spends her time taking half-nude photos and posting her tits all over hte internet and I find out about it - I will have no issues in taking that property from her. I won't consider it "stealing" something that belongs to her... I'd consider it my duty to remove that computer from her grasp to protect her. Couldn't care less if she considering theft of her property or not.

    I dunno, I just find that whole idea strange... when I was a teen I knew that all the things in my room that had been purchased by my parents was THEIRS not MINE. I knew they could take it away whenever they wanted to. Of course, my mother had no interest in taking any of these things away, and told me I could take everything in my bedroom with me when I left home... but I didn't expect to simply own these objects...

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  6. #114
    Tam-I-Am's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savingfishfromdrowning View Post
    *Sigh* Again, thanks for taking half my statement and twisting it to make me sound like a monster. Glad to see we can discuss something intellegently here.
    I didn't twist anything. I quoted exactly what you said and responded to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Savingfishfromdrowning View Post
    Children DO have unequal brain functioning, as do teenagers. Ask any doctor you know. Or better yet, ask your toddler. There is a reason people are not considered an adult until they are over 18 and have fewer priviledges until then.
    I'm a psychologist I don't agree with you. They don't have 'unequal' brain functioning - they have immature brain functioning. That's not the same thing at all. And I suspect that the difference in philosophical approach toward children is what's causing the difference of opinion here. I believe that children are fully functioning human beings with more rights to be respected and protected than adults - who are actually capable, in the absence of disability, of standing up for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Savingfishfromdrowning View Post
    I didn't say anyone is less human. I said multiple times (in the rest of the post you partially quoted and in my other posts) that I don't think punishing misbehaviour is treating someone as less human.

    Children are less mature and need more guidence as to appropriate behaviour. I believe punishing inappropriate behaviour is an acceptable way to guide behaviour and does not dehumanise someone or damage them in any way. Please show me some research that says that taking a childs laptop when it has been used inappropriately is going to psychologically damage them and I might change my mind.
    I don't agree with your approach - I don't punish poor behaviour, I set boundaries around it. I also teach by modelling. If I want my children to behave respectfully, I behave respectfully toward them - and we talk about disrespectful behaviour when they aren't managing. If they continue to not be able to manage to achieve what's being modelled and explained to them, the stronger boundaries go into place - ie they're asked to remove themselves from company if they can't behave in a socially acceptable manner.

    However, that's actually all besides the point. What this man did was not punishment - it was public humiliation. It wasn't boundary setting - it was tantrum throwing. He did not intent to teach her a lesson, he intended to hurt her in the exact manner and fashion that he had himself been hurt by her. She modelled his behaviour - exactly - and then was punished for behaving in the exact way which she had been taught to behave - by the person who had taught her to behave that way.

    How is it that a child can know what 'respectful behaviour' is if they've never had somebody behave respectfully toward them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Savingfishfromdrowning View Post
    Your manipulation of my statement, and inferred attack on my character, is highly offensive.
    Again, I did not manipulate anything - I quoted exactly what you wrote, and responded to it. If you find that offensive, I suggest that you engage in some self-reflection.

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  8. #115
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    he is her father, her parent. not her bff.
    his job is to parent.
    if it was a car he had bought her and she drove in a manner he did not agree with, it would be taken away. if it was a phone and she used it to harass or bully other people, it would be taken away.
    we may not all agree with the method in which it was done, but it was property paid for by him that was misused and taken away.

    and i think the personal attacks on one of the posters here is downright disgraceful.

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  10. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloweendee View Post
    he is her father, her parent. not her bff.
    his job is to parent.
    if it was a car he had bought her and she drove in a manner he did not agree with, it would be taken away. if it was a phone and she used it to harass or bully other people, it would be taken away.
    we may not all agree with the method in which it was done, but it was property paid for by him that was misused and taken away.

    and i think the personal attacks on one of the posters here is downright disgraceful.
    Taken away, confiscated, sold, not shot or thrown away.

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  12. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloweendee View Post
    he is her father, her parent. not her bff.
    his job is to parent.
    if it was a car he had bought her and she drove in a manner he did not agree with, it would be taken away. if it was a phone and she used it to harass or bully other people, it would be taken away.
    we may not all agree with the method in which it was done, but it was property paid for by him that was misused and taken away.
    .

    If she drove a car in a dangerous manner and he took it away - fine.
    If he shot it, put a sledge hammer through it, set it on fire or threw bricks through the windows --- NOT fine...all intimidating actions that do not teach respect nor responsibility... IMO

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  14. #118
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    Totally agree 5 in the bed. It's one thing to confiscate something, it is another thing entirely to shoot it. It's such an incredibly violent act.

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    Quote Originally Posted by halloweendee View Post
    he is her father, her parent. not her bff.
    his job is to parent.
    if it was a car he had bought her and she drove in a manner he did not agree with, it would be taken away. if it was a phone and she used it to harass or bully other people, it would be taken away.
    we may not all agree with the method in which it was done, but it was property paid for by him that was misused and taken away.

    and i think the personal attacks on one of the posters here is downright disgraceful.
    He didn't confiscate it. He shot it. He used a gun as a mode of discipline. How can people justify this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tam-I-Am View Post

    What a ridiculous statement. The very definition of 'gift' is that it then becomes the property of the person to whom it was gifted - for them to use as they please. Imagine if everything you'd ever been gifted in your life was taken back by the person who'd gifted it if you used it in a way that they didn't like. How do you reckon you might feel about that?

    I'm just astounded that apparently intelligent people can't see the glaring hypocrisy of this man's actions.
    Agreed. I showed DH the vid a few days ago and he was appalled. I was only talking to him about this very perspective not 15 mins ago about people saying he bought it for her therefore he can take it and shoot it.

    If DH and I had a fight and he took my new eternity ring he bought me and crushed it, saying he bought it for me I'd be absolutely disgusted with him... and the age of the giftee makes no difference. If you buy something for someone as a gift/to help with their schooling/to show them you love them, you don't have a right to take it back bc you are angry. The whole idea of a gift is something you give to someone else.

    as to the idea that a wife/husband set up is different to a child/parent set up. I typed out a response very similar to yours Tam. A child, given they have less impulse control, hindsight and developed brain function is *more* reason to deal gently with them. But I didn't hit reply as I knew it would be construed as picking on people and attacking their opinions, which I'm not. Just wanting to explain why I see my example of the husband shooting up his wife's computer for venting on FB or a forum as the same as this. But since you said it for me, I'll just agree lol

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