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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    Oh here we go Are we now talking about kids in the northern territory are we? Cause that's a completely seperate issue to the average Australian. Sorry but it's a weak argument. You're trying to say we have a divide in education and I'd like to know how and where you get that?
    Sorry - I forgot - they don't count, do they?

    I also think your personal anecdote is a weak argument. You only have to Goodle, read a newspaper, look at the AEU website to read about the inequalities between schools. Why are some schools in some areas scoring so poorly? People can't choose to send their children to a better public school when they are zoned.

  2. #62
    Savingfishfromdrowning's Avatar
    Savingfishfromdrowning is offline If you can't change your fate, change your attitude
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    It's not fair. We don't earn over 160K, but because I have a pre-existing condition it's expensive to insure us as a family so DH and I are insured as 'singles'. He is over the limit for a single, so we will pay more no matter what.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripleTime View Post
    We cant really afford to have PHI but we do cause my medical expenses cost a bomb & public waiting lists are crazy!

    The rebate pays for half our PHI for the next year.
    We have the same medical issues (lol). It's not like I say "we can afford it" - we earn less than you! But we afford it over not affording other things... like we rent on the bad side of town in a unit to afford to pay our bills and still "live". I still say we can afford it, because we are able to pay our bills. It was a very different story when we were both on government hand outs as students with two babies. We earn too little to be affected anyway, but we still have PHI even though we wouldn't get taxed for not having it, being too young and earning not enough to be penalised, because it is just something I believe in. A rebate is a bonus, and I still think anyone earning enough to be in the bracket it hits, really doesn't need to complain.

    From where I am coming from, a few friends of mine go on about not being able to afford doctors appoinments, or they don't have PHI etc because they can't afford it, except that I know they earn 150,000 plus (sometimes both partners too). It's hard to feel sorry for them when they drive around in their 50,000 cars each and go home to their 4brm brand new houses. Like Fearless leader said... there is a difference between struggling and living out of your means. If people are earning as much as $258,000, which is when they stop receiving the whole of the $1,300... then it's really a little insulting for people to be upset over that.

    KW123 - My reply wasn't directed at you, or anyone, and also doesn't say anything about people wanting the same rebates for the poor and wealthy. I am saying that it just makes me personally irritated that middle class and wealthy people are all over all the news sites and commenting about it, saying how sorry they feel for themselves and how they can't wait to vote in the liberals. I just really don't understand the mentality if they really do earn in that bracket

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1CrazyMoose View Post
    Where does the government get their funds to pay people's benefits etc? From the high paying people. They pay huge tax. That's money they have busted their bubble earning. They DO struggle. They don't get benefits and if they "choose" too then that's 1 less big tax payer which is less money for the government to pay out! Don't you see the importance of the high income earners?

    It's not fair to push so much financial burden on them either. They "choose" debt do they can be self sufficient. Because they know in a few decades time there will be no pension and few benefits because the government won't be able to afford it. So for security they live a life of struggle and maybe in hope to secure some future for their children.
    w

    Everyone pays tax, not just the wealthy. My husband also busts his bubble to earn his 45k too as well as studying full time on top of work. Being poor doesn't mean not working hard.

    I get that a mortgage is a sound financial investment for the future. But that isn't really the issue. The issue here is people complaining about a grand a year earning 200k a year, yet the same people tore others apart in the BB thread saying if $500 less BB makes a difference there's something wrong. So a poor person shouldn't complain about $500 in 6 months but a rich person can complain about a grand over a year?

    anyhoo I'll bow out, didn't mean to upset people.

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  6. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    Right, so I'm assuming your getting a lot of welfare in that case to help with those costs?
    Higher income earners don't get that, and who are you to judge how a high income earner spends or lives and how much they can afford? You'resaying you're struggling on your income and you wouldn't with $166k it doesn't mean you wouldn't miss 2k a year? And its the principle of what this government is doing, because it doesn't target you it makes it ok? Why, how will the savings benefit you?
    I've not had a family income of $45k, but I don't think you get that much welfare. I don't think it would be more than about $10k in ftb, perhaps including rent assistance.

    You can't compare $10k in welfare with earning an extra $100k, which even after tax, is many times more.

    I don't see how a low income family can afford PHI, and that's a real problem. Perhaps the government should take the money they are saving on reducing the rebate on higher income earners and give lower income earners a higher rebate?

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    Sorry - I forgot - they don't count, do they?

    I also think your personal anecdote is a weak argument. You only have to Goodle, read a newspaper, look at the AEU website to read about the inequalities between schools. Why are some schools in some areas scoring so poorly? People can't choose to send their children to a better public school when they are zoned.
    DON'T put words in my mouth! I never said that. Argue fairly please, don't get grubby.

    And you will always get schools who perform better. That's not the issue??? The issue is about private and public and our edcucation system OVERALL. You can get a good education in this country no matter your income, it's a pure simple fact.

  8. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    there is a big difference between 80k and 200k, and again saying how expensive everything is only strengthens the argument that a family like us on 45k really *are* struggling considering we have many of the same bills of someone on 5 times as much.

    If we can budget and give our kids everything on 45k and be paying as much rent as a mortgage in our area we wouldn't have a care in the world on 166k.

    I think people need to get some perspective, if you think you're struggling on 150k how do you think a single mother copes on 15?
    But remember the amount of tax they pay!! There is ALOT more to it then $166000 or $80000.

    $166000 almost pay half in tax!! Then they most likely have insurances as they probably work in a profession that needs it. They have things like extra $1000 health fund soon etc, no day care, no this no that, more payments for this, more payments for that!

    $80,000. Pay less tax (still a fair bit at this price) gets some benefits from government, gets done day care paid etc.

    You have to see it differently then just a sum!

    And he'll if they earn it they should use it however they please (it's their money) they pay enough tax! They probably give alot too. People work hard for an education to provide as much as they can. Good on them. Just because they have done the hard yards doesn't mean they should pay more for things.

    Sorry but i think it's wrong.

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    Right, so I'm assuming your getting a lot of welfare in that case to help with those costs?
    Higher income earners don't get that, and who are you to judge how a high income earner spends or lives and how much they can afford? You'resaying you're struggling on your income and you wouldn't with $166k it doesn't mean you wouldn't miss 2k a year? And its the principle of what this government is doing, because it doesn't target you it makes it ok? Why, how will the savings benefit you?
    no, that 45k includes CL and no we really don't get that much. I'll swap a 200k a year family with no CL for our 45k with CL

    and on 166k with how frugal we live, no 1k would be a drop in the ocean. Most women spend more on their hair in a year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    Having a mortgage IS struggling?? Do you know how expensive a simple house in a normal suburb in Sydney, Melbourne or any major city costs? You say it's 'choosing a lifestyle' you make it sound like they're/we're choosing this big plush 'lifestyle' when I'm sorry but it's providing an average home to live in?
    If every high income earner rented then their would be an even bigger divide in the classes where only the really rich could afford housing instead of everyday mums and dads. So abit of help to maintain it would benefit everyone!
    There are plenty of average priced 'normal' suburbs in Melbourne. But people *choose* not to live there because they've "heard" they have a bad reputation and cannot lower themselves to that standard. If you struggle to buy a house in Brighton, buy one in the west instead.. I know it's hard to fully understand the concept of 'living within your means' these days, but there's a lot to be said for it.

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  13. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1CrazyMoose View Post
    Where does the government get their funds to pay people's benefits etc? From the high paying people.
    This isn't necessarily the norm, but I know somebody with huge amount of assets (tens of millions) and an equivalent income of about a million per year who doesn't pay any income tax, due to structuring and depreciation. The depreciation won't last forever, but the very wealthy are also good at reducing their tax liability.

    But, that's not the norm, and the middle class do pay a whack of tax, but they still have a lot left over as well.

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