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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserama View Post
    Course you can. I think it defeats the purpos to put rules on women on how they should or should not live.
    Exactly. If a woman truly wants to stay at home and cook bickies that that is the choice she has exercised. That's what feminism is about. Work, stay at home, she cooks, he cooks. All those women (and men) can be feminist.

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  3. #52
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    Hahaha I can't believe SCUM manifesto was used as an example of a feminist. Come on.

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  5. #53
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    I'm coming to the game a bit late (and not quoting relevant points).

    But in terms of, a woman not being a feminist if she's not financially independent - thats hogwash. I can have the full belief that women have the right to be equal to men, and financially independent, even if i was unable to reach that goal for myself at present. (just speaking generally - not going into my own personal situation at all).

    So just because a woman is in a domestic violence situation, means she cannot believe that all women have the right to live free from violence?

    Yes, living by our ideals and beliefs is preferably - but just because we don't always manage, doesn't mean our ideals and beliefs aren't ours!

    [and yes i believe that women can make the choice to be SAHM/homemakers and do most of the work around the house - but i also know that its a rare household where things are split 50/50]

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  7. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander Beetle View Post
    Hahaha I can't believe SCUM manifesto was used as an example of a feminist. Come on.
    lol yep lets get the most extreme quotes we can find on google and make out this is what the other 99.999% of feminists believe.

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  9. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    I'm coming to the game a bit late (and not quoting relevant points).But in terms of, a woman not being a feminist if she's not financially independent - thats hogwash. I can have the full belief that women have the right to be equal to men, and financially independent, even if i was unable to reach that goal for myself at present. (just speaking generally - not going into my own personal situation at all).So just because a woman is in a domestic violence situation, means she cannot believe that all women have the right to live free from violence?Yes, living by our ideals and beliefs is preferably - but just because we don't always manage, doesn't mean our ideals and beliefs aren't ours![and yes i believe that women can make the choice to be SAHM/homemakers and do most of the work around the house - but i also know that its a rare household where things are split 50/50]
    Sorry, i should have said 'has no desire to be financially independant.' I personally wouldn't call someone a feminist if they were in a long term financially dependant situation of their own choosing. I've been financially dependant on DP while i was studying, it was a means to an end. I think (personally) that choosing to be finacially dendepant on someone forever doesn't sit with my idea of feminism, same with being pro-life as a principle rather than as a persnoal choice for oneself. Sorry if that makes little sense, i'm chugging my coffee before child care pick up

  10. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToughLove View Post
    No. Because the original, and lasting, idea of feminism isn't about equality, it's about women being the better gender.

    If it was about equality, they would call themselves equalists.

    A woman cannot say she is a hard core feminist and have an equal and respectable partnership in any relationship that is with a male.
    I don't think that this is true at all. My wife has certainly managed to pull it off.

    I have no issue with the "feminism" label, and it is one I proudly use to describe myself, too. As has been said previously, the promotion of the rights of the woman as "feminism" rather than "equality" is simply because of the disparity that existed when the movement started and the fact that the word has become ingrained in the public consciousness. Granted, "gender equality" or "sexual equality" might be more accurate, I'm firmly of the opinion that most people who identify as feminists do so out of a desire to achieve equality rather than superiority.

    That said, it certainly isn't universally true, and in my experience the opposite is definitely not uncommon. In much the same way that the flood of "nationalist" Australia Day chain emails try to conceal their racism with carefully chosen words, there are many who share similar attitudes to those you listed but express them with a little more subtlety, too - but thankfully they are but a minority. I think it is incredibly unfair to tar those that genuinely believe in equality with the same brush. Sadly, some are driven by a value, and others by their agenda.

    I believe in equality. No one should have more or less choices available to them because of their gender, or their race, or their sexuality - regardless of whether or not that choice fits the traditional stereotypes or roles. Expecting those identifying as feminists to eliminate any of those choices simply to fit in with someone's definition of the label makes no sense.
    Last edited by DaddyLarge; 30-01-2012 at 18:58.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearlessLeader View Post
    Sorry, i should have said 'has no desire to be financially independant.' I personally wouldn't call someone a feminist if they were in a long term financially dependant situation of their own choosing. I've been financially dependant on DP while i was studying, it was a means to an end. I think (personally) that choosing to be finacially dendepant on someone forever doesn't sit with my idea of feminism, same with being pro-life as a principle rather than as a persnoal choice for oneself. Sorry if that makes little sense, i'm chugging my coffee before child care pick up
    ahk
    yes i think that for the most part i agree with you. But at the same time - if its a choice, then as a feminist i would believe that she has the right to make the decision for herself - silly or not :P
    I guess i could think of several reasons why women would make that choice.

    And many more why they would end up in that situation without having chosen it.

    But thankyou for clarifying - i think for the most part we're probably in agreeance. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    ahk
    yes i think that for the most part i agree with you. But at the same time - if its a choice, then as a feminist i would believe that she has the right to make the decision for herself - silly or not :P
    I guess i could think of several reasons why women would make that choice.

    And many more why they would end up in that situation without having chosen it.

    But thankyou for clarifying - i think for the most part we're probably in agreeance. LOL
    Yeh I was thinking that too. TECHNICALLY if someone CHOOSES to live dependant financially then that's their CHOICE which is what feminism is all about.

    Having said that....if my dh was that rich where I didn't HAVE to work unless I got bored and wanted to.....I may only do volunteer work or something and choose to be totally dependant Who knows?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserama View Post
    Yeh I was thinking that too. TECHNICALLY if someone CHOOSES to live dependant financially then that's their CHOICE which is what feminism is all about.Having said that....if my dh was that rich where I didn't HAVE to work unless I got bored and wanted to.....I may only do volunteer work or something and choose to be totally dependant Who knows?
    See, i know a woman who did that... Then realised quite late in life that she is gay. Her DH was destroyed by it and understandably didn't feel an overwhelming urge to keep giving her money. She obviously got some money out of the divorce but for the year before that happened she was a bit stuffed. She had no skills, grown up kids. Ended up sleeping on people's couches it can happen to anyone at all.as i said, if someone chooses to be dependant, they can call themself a feminist but i wouldn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearlessLeader View Post
    See, i know a woman who did that... Then realised quite late in life that she is gay. Her DH was destroyed by it and understandably didn't feel an overwhelming urge to keep giving her money. She obviously got some money out of the divorce but for the year before that happened she was a bit stuffed. She had no skills, grown up kids. Ended up sleeping on people's couches it can happen to anyone at all.as i said, if someone chooses to be dependant, they can call themself a feminist but i wouldn't.
    but that could be said of anyone. Yes, women are more likely to be the unpaid, unskilled workers - but realistically it is unwise for anyone, male OR female to be completely financially dependent on anyone (even the pension/gov) for longterm - IME

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