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  1. #11
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    What were the specifics of the murder?
    I think that counts for a lot.

  2. #12
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    I think its a really murky area with no clear right or wrong.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonhead View Post
    What were the specifics of the murder?
    I think that counts for a lot.
    This is just a quick version

    In this case two men were drunk and bashing someone outside a deli. The deli attendant came out and broke up the fight. The two men then waited for the deli attendant to finish work and has he walked home the bashed him unconscious.

    The man who wants the baby then dragged him across the road and put his face in a puddle/pond and holding him there until he drowned. He also then went and burnt his bike. This is the part the man denied he did. Although apparently he bragged to his mates about this part

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  5. #14
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    is it that different to a simgle woman wanting to have a baby? either kid is going to grow up without his biological father in his life, as a traditional father figure at least.

    its a hard one, why should she be refused to have children because of what someone else has done? but then again how will the child cope/be treated with a father who is a convicted murderer and who will never see unless on the other side of a glass plate(only guessing here that is how they would visit)?

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    After reading that, I have no idea why someone would want him to father her child. Absolutely incomprehensible.

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  8. #16
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    Who would be paying for the IVF treatment?

    I don't think the specifics of the murder should be taken into account. Any recounting of events will mean that people feel inherently squeamish/ distressed about the murder, and less inclined to grant the man what he wants.

    I think it should be the case that prisoners are allowed, or aren't, but not dependent on the nature of the crime.

    What we are really arguing is whether imprisonment should mean forsaking all human rights (presumably including things like voting). I agree with Lemonhead that imprisonment is a loss of freedom, but should not include a loss of all human privileges.

    I would be inclined to argue that he should be able to father the child, providing he/ his wife pay for it. Having said that, I think the impact on society if that were common could be a negative one. It would undoubtedly lead to a higher reliance on social support, and result in more children growing up in one parent families - which may add a financial burden to the primary carers and, accordingly, the state.

  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissMuppet View Post
    After reading that, I have no idea why someone would want him to father her child. Absolutely incomprehensible.
    I agree. And just to be judgy mcjudgy, you'd wonder if the type of woman who meets a man in jail knowing all of this and wanting a relationship with him, is the right type of woman to become a mother. It's all good to argue the human rights of a horrible, sadistic man in jail, but what about the human rights of a child growing up with an unstable mother (imo you would have to be) and a father who *is* there (mother is in a relationship with him and would want him to see and have a relationship with the father I guess), so this child will have to deal with both of them. *shudder*.

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  11. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Girl X View Post
    What we are really arguing is whether imprisonment should mean forsaking all human rights (presumably including things like voting). I agree with Lemonhead that imprisonment is a loss of freedom, but should not include a loss of all human privileges.

    I would be inclined to argue that he should be able to father the child, providing he/ his wife pay for it. Having said that, I think the impact on society if that were common could be a negative one. It would undoubtedly lead to a higher reliance on social support, and result in more children growing up in one parent families - which may add a financial burden to the primary carers and, accordingly, the state.
    Too bad the man he killed has all his rights taken away the day he was beaten to death and drowned. Even without knowing the details of a crime, if you are in jail for life... there is not going to be a good reason behind it for why you should have the rights that you clearly took from someone else so easily to land you in jail.

    I'm not sure why people living off tax payers and state money is more concerning than the actual child who is going to live this life.

  12. #19
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    Another burden on the system. How long is the mother in prison for? If she's serving a life sentence too, does this mean the child is raised in prison or fostered? How does it work ?

  13. #20
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    A single person going through IVF using donor sperm is not the same thing. In this case the father will have access to the child. Imagine having to spend the time allocated to visitation in a prison. How will that impact on a child?


 

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