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  1. #21
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    Actually according to the comments it seems that the article has been tweeked a bit too because a couple of people have posted this comment....

    "Sasha's gender was almost revealed when he took to running around their garden naked, but Beck was resolute and encouraged him to play with dolls to hide his masculinity."

    And I can't find it in the article at all now. Several posters have posted this comment and it's a really disturbing comment showing exactly what her agenda was....but now the comment is gone? And the comment about banning combat trousers is also gone.

  2. #22
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    My problem with it is that by actively hiding his gender they may be sending the signal that being a boy is something to be ashamed of (since that's what he is).

    I agree with rejecting gender stereotypes. My boy happily plays with high heels and dolls when he wants to, but I don't push him into it to hide anything. They have used their child in a sociall experiment and it feels wrong.

    Being a girl or a boy is nothing to be ashamed of and need not be limiting. She's using him to play a game and it feels, well, squicky.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserama View Post
    Actually according to the comments it seems that the article has been tweeked a bit too because a couple of people have posted this comment....

    "Sasha's gender was almost revealed when he took to running around their garden naked, but Beck was resolute and encouraged him to play with dolls to hide his masculinity."

    And I can't find it in the article at all now. Several posters have posted this comment and it's a really disturbing comment showing exactly what her agenda was....but now the comment is gone? And the comment about banning combat trousers is also gone.
    Yeah that shows they went about it the wrong way.
    If he was expressing his masculinity than it makes sense for them to allow that
    I let dd play with any toy and choose her own clothes shorts or skirts. I'm not hugely feminine myself I don't wear make up or many dressers and skirts. (love pink though lol) but my dd just has always gravitates to feminine "girly" things
    She loves cricket and footy, cars,blocks, trains, dinosaurs, books, dolls, prams, dress ups of fairy dresses, necklaces, handbags and aprons
    I know I'll be most likely signing her up to milo cricket (dh grandmother was a bit horrified, "what about netball?") and auskick and dance lessons as she loves all those things

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    I think it's disgusting.... Poor child

  6. #25
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    Crackpots, the both of them.

    They've sheltered the child from all gender influence for five whole years, referring to it as "the infant", and now they're shoving it into the public school system with no prior warning and hoping it will all turn out okay.

    My lord this child is going to hate his parents one day.

  7. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserama View Post
    And we probably do, but by confusing a child by making him gender neutral won't change that. What it will do is cause him to perhaps have an identity issue later on in life.
    I don't think you can really make that assertion in absolute terms. As far as I am aware, there is no proof that not assigning a gender to a baby will cause identity issues during their later years.

    I'm all for trying to get rid of gender stereotypes (which these parents aren't doing by assuming that tutus are for girls and combat trousers for boys) but this needs to be done slowly over time across society. This isn't done by hiding someone's gender and disguising one's masculinity or femininity. It's by embracing one's gender but teaching kids that they are free to be who they are, no matter what they wear.
    Massive social change starts small, by pioneering individuals. But they were not hiding the child's gender, they were hiding the child's s.ex so that the child's gender could not be defined by others. I guess to these people, by the child feeling free to choose their own identity without the added pressure of socially accepted assigned gender they have a better chance at being free to be who they are.

    If they are a girl and they choose to wear pink they need to know that they are not bound to only live a life that society has deemed as feminine...and vice versa. I don't understand how hiding one's gender needs to be done.
    Girls are able to wear pink and blue without much of a problem, they are less bound by colours than boys are. Our society tends to baulk at boys wearing colours that are deemed feminine. I don't understand why we feel the need to assign a gender to a baby or child who is yet to understand the concept of gender or decide where they feel they fit within the accepted boundaries of gender.

    Think about transgender people....they say they are one gender trapped in another body....what does that tell you? That a particular gender (girl/boy) is how one identifies themselves and what happens when they find out they really are a girl or boy....they dress the way society deems as masculine or feminine and they act the way society deems as masculine or feminine too. And this tells us that the gender they are must match the outside or they are feel trapped! There is no getting away from this!
    Yes, it tells me they feel trapped in the wrong body. It might be easier for them if we didn't assign gender based upon genitals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deserama View Post
    And I think differences should be celebrated! Isn't that what we try to teach our children?
    I think you and I have disagreed about this one many times

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  9. #27
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    I can feel a rebellion coming on!

  10. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Gram View Post
    I don't think you can really make that assertion in absolute terms. As far as I am aware, there is no proof that not assigning a gender to a baby will cause identity issues during their later years.
    Ok well we know one thing....not socialising a child during the informative years is damaging. We also know that when kids are 'different' they can be subject to bullying and ridicule....why make it harder? Why to this extreme? And I may not be able to say it in absolute terms but I disagree completely in making a child an social experiment and cross your fingers and hope that they turn out alright. We know people who grow up in homes where being male or female is celebrated and known and even stereotyped to a certain extent (with no other trauma) can grow up ok. We DO NOT know what hiding one's 'sex' would do to a child...this is unknown, it is a mystery and it is frightening. No other society does this....I wonder why?



    Massive social change starts small, by pioneering individuals.
    Yes but I disagree with throwing one's child under a bus and hope they survive with no real facts on whether or not they will be ok. I disagree with using kids as lab rats for your own personal agenda.

    But they were not hiding the child's gender, they were hiding the child's s.ex so that the child's gender could not be defined by others. I guess to these people, by the child feeling free to choose their own identity without the added pressure of socially accepted assigned gender they have a better chance at being free to be who they are.
    You can do that without the need to hide their sex. You can do that and still maintain an identity. They can do that and still allow the child to be able to identify with others who are just like them....unless they wish to move to Canada and hang out with 'Storm' who would be the only other person he would be able to identify with. A very loney existence that he will probably resent his parents for.


    Girls are able to wear pink and blue without much of a problem, they are less bound by colours than boys are. Our society tends to baulk at boys wearing colours that are deemed feminine. I don't understand why we feel the need to assign a gender to a baby or child who is yet to understand the concept of gender or decide where they feel they fit within the accepted boundaries of gender.
    Why not? It doesn't hurt them as long as one is balanced but also when one is fully aware that influence only STARTS with the parents but will continue with the rest of society and that one needs to be aware that all their hard work with trying to make a child be whatever they want them to be (gender neutral) could all come undone as soon as they step out into the big wide world.

    Having said that....you can say that society makes your children be a certain gender and you can hate that all you like, but you cannot stop it! Also by one MAKING a child be gender neutral you're also influencing your children to be something too and to live a certain way, how is that any different.

    If this society changed overnight where everyone saw everyone else as a person and not a 'gender' or 'sex' or whatever.....then you will have 'pioneers' trying to bring it back to what it was before, it won't ever end. You will always get people who revolt against the rest of society no matter what! Utopia will never happen.



    Yes, it tells me they feel trapped in the wrong body. It might be easier for them if we didn't assign gender based upon genitals.
    Well you'd have to speak to mother nature about that one



    I think you and I have disagreed about this one many times
    Probably - I love being a woman. I love how femininity is associated with being a woman and I love being feminine - love it!!! Can't see a problem with it. Doesn't make me weaker or less of a human or any of that. It doesn't mean I have to act and do and live a certain way but I will celebrate it! I think it would be boring if we were all 'neutral' BORING! LOL

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  12. #29
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    Quotes:


    " encouraged him to play with dolls to hide his masculinity.

    Sasha wears a ruched-sleeved and scalloped-collared shirt to school from the girl's uniform list, and has been banned from sporting combat trousers.

    The youngster is also encouraged to wear flowery tops at weekends. "

    .....

    Ahhh, now I see.
    It's okay to express your gender in colours, dress, hairstyles, toys and costumes. As long as you're not expressing a male gender.

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    I would place a bet that if they had a girl, she would be banned from wearing pink, playing with dolls, or having clips in her hair. This is where I think it's wrong. Let the kid be free to be a kid, not push him into things. Now if he chose the girls uniform, chose to play with dolls, chose to wear flowery tops, I see no problem with that.

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