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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElizaDoLittle View Post
    Cant edit, darn app the subjects are called different things and the placements are obviously in diff places of the hospital but they are so alike. I hope I haven't made a huge mistake.
    Dont stress - i am keen to know the opinions of those working in midwifry - so far we havent had any

    I think in time Direct entry will be the preferred way to become a middie, as more and more direct entry middies come into the work place.

    Still would love to hear from and midwives out there!

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by monkey face View Post
    That may have been my post? If so, sorry to have worried you.

    The BMID does cover a lot of the knowledge you will need relating to maternity/labour/birth, but as you all know, there is more to this stage of life. General nursing problems do pop up for many women, whether they are pregnant with a prior disease that may unexpectedly cause problems, to those that get severe injuries during their pregnancy or just before their birth, which can impact it. The reason dual or those who did a postgrad or masters in midwifery are more sought after is because they have the nursing background/training to address these problems or even pick up on something during a prenatal that may be wrong with the mother that requires the nursing knowledge as it's not pregnancy related, but could cause problems with it (ie/ blood works that return a reading that are indicative of cancer).

    It may not cause a problem gaining employment, but it may make a difference in how you are treated at work. And that does matter a lot when you are spending more time with co-workers than you are with family. May midwives I personally know see direct entry midwives more on par with EN's and treat them accordingly. But honestly, if you are finding problems with employment, you could always do a postgrad or masters in nusring. 2 years, or 1.5 years if you accelerate it (do summer semester).
    Thanks Monkey Face, im not sure if it was your post made me think about it? Stupid question but whats an EN?

    I guess my concern is like you said how i wold be treated by my colleagues, i would find it difficult to work with people who saw my qualification as an inferior qualification.

  3. #13
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    Okay, despite the fact that I have not even started my own degree yet. I know a couple of Midwives and (more) Nurses, already qualified. Plus I spent two years on a forum of the first lot of direct entry midwives in Australia.

    The forum was full of tears and tantrums after the initial excitement. I joined as they were finishing third year. I stopped going on it as I ended up quite disillusioned about my dream to do midwifery. In Britain it is the norm to do direct and so I was shocked to find they did not have it here when I first arrived. As this was my dream career at the time.
    Then this forum was full of unhappy students and newly qualified Midwives who said they felt they were not respected by their work colleagues. This was a fair few years ago now. So I had hoped things were improving in that area.


    The women I know, who are Nurses and Midwives feel the samethough. They think that direct entry is cutting corners and that these people are a liability. I have even heard said that they are not much more than Doulas. Nurses seem quite adamant that these 'Midwives' certainly are not anything like a 'Nurse'
    However it really does seem to be the general opinion of those already in the system.

    Perhaps this will change over the years. I think it will just take time.

    This is my opinion formed by listening to people I know well and people I only know barely. I am not saying that every one feels this way. This is what I have picked up on.

  4. #14
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    I worried about this too. I'm doing straight Mid. I think it'll be the norm in a few years time. I honestly don't feel like I will be less qualified than a nurse/MW, we do so much nursing stuff anyway, when I really think there should be more emphasis on Midwifery- being 'with women'.

    Midwifery is health care but its is so so much more than that. Certain people become midwives, people that have a passion for working with women at a time when they are probably experiencing the most life-changing time in their lives. I don't think its a coincidence that Midwifery degrees are full of people with Arts and teaching degrees! I think nursing is so completely different, and I believe as direct entry becomes more common, this will be more recognised. Not that nurse/MW will be less recognised, just that MW will be seen as equal in that particular field.

    I have heard that regional hosp want nurse/MW which makes sense as you would be doing both roles. I have no desire ever to do any nursing roles so this doesn't bother me, but if you are thinking of going rural, its something to consider. I am also interested in doing Maternal Child Health which I think they want nursing for so thats also something to think about. I've decided to cross this bridge first and deal with that later

  5. #15
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    It's totally as it was said above.... Depends on attitudes of those already in system. Here in nz, direct entry midwives seem to be far more sought after and the 'old school' nurse/midwives aren't that happy with that (I say old school as nz hadn't trained nurse/midwives for quite a few years now. It's all direct entry). I love the huge amount of stuff we learn here in our 4 year degree and outon clinical placements we are often complemented (even from nurse/midwives) at how in depth our knowledge base is.

    It's all perception really

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annabella View Post
    I worried about this too. I'm doing straight Mid. I think it'll be the norm in a few years time.
    I completely agree. In 3 years (more if you take longer) there will be even more direct midwifery grads in the industry. Over time, this will normalise the qualification, result in a lot less nurse/midwives to be condenscending and give hospitals only direct entry grads to choose from for positions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Annabella View Post
    we do so much nursing stuff anyway, when I really think there should be more emphasis on Midwifery- being 'with women'.
    Which uni are you going to? Compare the BMID to the BNUR subjects. You will see that there aren't actually many nursing subjects, if any at all. It used to be where a lot of the BMID and BNUR subjects crossed over, but now, at most uni's, there is not a single subject that both degree's do. The dual BNUR/BMID degrees are like a BMID, but with a few cross overs into nursing. It's still mainly focused on midwifery, but expands to peds, pharma etc, just no aged care in any of the core subjects (atleast, that's what I found when I was comparing uni's, degrees, subjects etc).

    But it is so true that all of you can cross the bridge IF you come to it- it's easier to get into a BNUR or masters as a grad and have time cut off the degree, than it is to get into BMID as a grad (I'm not even sure if they offer it over a reduced period of time for grads).

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  8. #17
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    I'm finding this all fascinating! I was counselled by several Midwives who did their nursing degree first, to go with the straight up Midwifery degree. In their minds they felt it was more beneficial to get the straight up training in midwifery for 3 years rather then only having the one year of midwifery. Especially because it's so clinical they felt that you come out of the program much more experienced as a midwife. I'm not really too worried. I think it'll all work out and as more and more of us are graduating it'll start becoming normal. I have had to put in so much hard work just to get into the program and now I'm here I'm not going to let anything worry me except for keeping on top of my families needs and my study needs! I'll cross the other bridges in 3/4 years time

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  10. #18
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    I agree that it is going the way of being the norm, however, the situation will always be slightly different in places outside of the major centres.

    I have just been advised by my hospital that they prefer dual trained ( and in fact won't cater for BMid students) as they don't have the capacity to cater for DEM's. They need to be able to be flexible and shuffle staff around as necessary. As i was told today, things are a lot different here to SE QLD for example, ( I'm in North QLD) and the situation is even worse in smaller hospitals.

    Thats not to say they won't employ DEM's but they wouldn't employ many if that makes sense?

    So i think you're fine in the larger centres but if you were to work in smaller cities etc you may run into some problems.

  11. #19
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    I do honestly understand why hospitals feel that way. In America, there are CNM's (Certified Nurse Midwives), CPM (certified professional midwives) and lay midwives (a woman decides to be a midwife, so puts an ad in the paper advertising so. No education, no qualifications etc).

    The CNM's are the only ones that can work in a hospital, and the odd one works doing homebirth. They have done nursing, worked a few years using the degree, and went back to become a midi.
    The CPM's are direct entry who do homebirths (majority of the states do not allow them though- their 'qualifications' are not reconised by any other country either). They did the direct entry 3 year degree and the degree providers can decide what they do and don't want to teach. Their stats are NOT good. The few states that do allow CPM's are in the process of reviewing this, as the perinatal deaths get higher and higher- the body that they 'subscribe' to (they don't have a governing body as they are not registered) refuse to release the stats of just how high the death rate is because it would mean they would be under even more scrutiny and homebirth with a CPM would be no longer sought out.

    Now how this is relevant to how hospitals here feel, is that they see the horrible things about americas direct entry midwives, and while it's a completely different education, they still see '3 year direct entry' and then able to compare that to the certified nurse midwives over there, and see the huge difference. It's about covering their butts and the knowledge that the nursing part does matter.

  12. #20
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    I find it frustrating that DEM's aren't given more support in hospitals. The BMid degree I'm doing includes nursing subjects and then we spend a lot of time learning about co-morbidities in pregnancy . One midwife educator said to me why is there such an emphasis on calling it direct entry midwifery , no one ever called nursing a direct entry nursing degree. From my experience , many nurses come out with a degree and stay in the one area they enjoy and struggle if they are put anywhere else. The reality is you don't come out of uni knowing it all, you learn a lot of your knowledge by putting into practice. Just hope people start to realize the value of DEM's sooner than later!!!!

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