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  1. #21
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    hi littlesunflowers! what a true statement - if only we could ask our future children! at this stage i would love to know that we will have future children! any more updates your end?

    i have tried to stay off the internet for a few days as i was starting to drive myself (and dh) a little nuts i think...

    anyways, he has had a few more blood tests and we've got the hormone results back. we don't see the fertility specialist til the 17th of october as that's how long it takes for the genetic and chromosomal test results to come back.

    I was hoping someone could help me interpret the results of the other tests though, based on your experiences?

    testosterone - 11 nmol/L
    SHBG - 22 nmol/L
    calculated free testo. - 270 pmol/L
    FAI - 50.0

    haemoglobin - 151 g/L
    white cells - 3.9 9/L (with a comment saying borderline low WCC - what does this mean??)

    FSH - 6 U/L
    LH - 5 U/L
    prolactin - 210 mU/L

    treponemal serology - 'treponemal antibodies not detected' (what does this mean??)

    thanks everyone in advance!

    i don't know how we're (i'm) going to get through til the 17th of october!

  2. #22
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    littlesunflowers is offline It's not about the seeds - it's how you grow the flowers
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    Hi dgl

    I'm afraid I can't comment on those results - all we were told is that DH's levels were normal. If you're still researching, I found a lot of info about male infertility at: http://www.ivf.com/ch8mb.html

    I also drove DH crazy with reading about all the possibilities. There are many, there really are! I know you can't stop thinking about it and wanting answers, but if you've got a lot of the tests underway you may well have an answer at your appointment on the 17th and if they think IVF/ICSI is an option for you, you may find yourself doing that before the end of the year. The time before our first appointment dragged on forever...it got better once there was an action plan. In fact time went scarily fast once I realised how soon I'd be learning to give myself injections! (I'm a huge needle phobic...but I did it once, then was fine after that!)

    Now is the time to throw yourself into other hobbies, or novels and DVDs if you can't face going out. Anything that takes the focus off the overwhelming possibilities. I put a lot of pressure on myself to search for answers...DH left it to the doctors...the outcome has been the same, but he got more sleep than me along the way.

    Oh, if you have private health insurance, you might want to check now if your DH is covered for "pregnancy and birth services". He may be one of the small percentage of men to whom that category of cover is applicable. Depending on the diagnosis you might not need that cover (or be able to upgrade in time to use it), but I just thought I'd mention it.

    Hang in there!

  3. #23
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    Default Azoospermia - no sperm

    Hi everyone.
    Well we got back from our appointment not long ago and the news is not good. DH has AZFb micro deletion which basically means he most likely doesn't produce any sperm. So no chance of having our own children, the doctor said the only option available to us is donor sperm.

    I am not sure what to feel, actually think I'm pretty numb. It is heartbreaking especially as at our previous appointment the doc was certain it was obstructive and we had a chance at TESE and IVF/ICSI due to DH showing no physical or hormonal traits of genetic issues. As much as we said to ourselves that we weren't holding our breath til the genetic results came back, it's still such a blow.

    I don't know whether I could go the donor sperm option. I think if it's not his baby then I'm not sure if I could handle it? I was actually thinking I could handle donor embryo better? When I mentioned this to the doctor, she said yes, that is like a very early adoption. That's exactly what I thought. Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

    I am not sure where to go from here

  4. #24
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    littlesunflowers is offline It's not about the seeds - it's how you grow the flowers
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    dgl, I'm sorry for you and your DH. It's so hard to hear news like that. The feelings you have now are probably shock and the beginnings of grief - just go with it, for as long as you need.


    We had a similar experience; they thought TESA would be successful but it wasn't. Choosing your next step is very personal and it will probably take time for you to get there. Your DH might take more or less time than you and have different reactions along the way, and that might become almost as hard to deal with. Just keep remembering why you married each other!


    You've already realised that even if you can't have your DH's genetic children, you can still have a family together, and that's good - there's a new journey to start as soon as you're ready. I'm pretty sure that no matter how you choose to bring a child into your family, you will love that child at first sight. But if you find yourself feeling uncomfortable with any option, don't commit to it until you've worked through it and become comfortable with it. Your clinic should be able to help you find information or even support groups if you need that - that's in addition to the support you can find on BubHub, of course. If you have a search of the Forums - or even back in this thread - you'll be able to find some posts that might answer some of your questions.

  5. #25
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    Hi dgl - so sorry for your news. I understand how you feel. My DH definitely doesn't produce any sperm either. It was devastating to learn that, and we kind of went through the bad news/grieving process. After the biopsy & TESA we were told he had Sertoli-cell only syndrome and no sperm etc etc. We were devastated and dealt with that news then. A little while later it was suggested we see another doctor, who is the guru in this area. He ran some BTs and found that DH did NOT have those microdeletions, so he felt he had a 50/50 chance of finding some sperm by doing a microdissection. But he didn't find any, so after getting hopes up a little bit, they were dashed again.

    Sorry for the roundabout way to say, I understand. You need to do what is best for you, but for us donor sperm was the answer. That way it would still be my child etc, and DH was quite adamant about that. As it happens, we haven't had success really with the IVF (well, 1st cycle worked but then miscarriage) - maybe there are egg quality issues for me, I don't know. But I'm feeling a little dubious about the donor sperm we had from the clinic. We are going another route (after wasting a lot of time & money on IVF), and I'm happy to chat to you more about that on PM when you feel ready. PM me whenever you like. But yes, it might take some time to adjust to this news & really think about your different options. *big hugs*

    And I'm sorry I never really responded at the time for you, littlesunflowers. I was going through a rough time. xx
    Last edited by peoniesarepretty; 19-10-2012 at 07:46.

  6. #26
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    thanks littlesunflowers and peoniesarepretty.

    i think we are both going to give ourselves some time as yyou say. we have a 4 day weekend trip that we had booked previously, and we leave tomorrow morning, so we are looking forward to that. will give us some time to get away, and enjoy being childless for now. there are so many things that you can do when it's just you two when you don't have to think of children, so we are going to be posiitive and do that for a bit and enjoy some us time.

    we are both still in a bit of shock but i think we are doing ok, considering. i do feel terribly for dh as he mentioned last night that he won't be able to pass on his genes. i think more than anything i want him to be ok. whatever he is comfortable with is what i'm comfortable with.

    i can sense my dh is so worried about me and how i'm dealing with this, that i think that he feels bad and guilty, even though he says it's not the case.
    have you got any advice on how your dh's felt with the situation that donor is the only option? about not being able to pass on genes? i had a quick look on the internet for forums for men as i have found this so helpful that i thought maybe my dh might be able to vent some of his fears and thoughts this way as well. but there doesn't seem to be much out there for men?

    thank you for all the support, just knowing we are not alone is a huge help. and also being able to talk to other people in the same situation.. thank you.

    peoniesarepretty, i will definitely like to know what the other route you are trying is.. i will pm you soon. thank you!

  7. #27
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    littlesunflowers is offline It's not about the seeds - it's how you grow the flowers
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    I haven't seen much in the way of forums of this nature for men in all the months I've been searching the Internet for information on this topic. But I've also realised that the number of men who can't be helped by TESE is quite small. Our FS said that azoospermia was probably more common than we realised, but even on BubHub I think I've only come across about 5 couples who have mentioned that their MFI is so severe that TESE can't help. Also I suppose many men don't really like to talk about it, even with other infertile men.


    My DH wants us to be parents, and we're both grateful that a donor is willing to help us along that path (and meet our child/ren later in life if that is what they want). He is sad that he might not see his family's genetic traits in his children, feels guilty that I have to go through the IVF etc, and has worried that our children might say things like "You're not really my dad!" in arguments (our clinic counsellor talked about how to handle this). We have no doubt that the child will be loved by all our family, and we think that a child brought up by us is going to be like us in many ways even if different in some ways...just like any child, really! You and your DH might find the "Letters" on this site helpful: http://www.dcnetwork.org


    peonies, I remember reading some of your other posts at various times - trust me you have been helpful to me (and probably others!) even if you haven't realised!

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to littlesunflowers For This Useful Post:

    peoniesarepretty  (19-10-2012)

  9. #28
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    I've posted this elsewhere on other "Azoospermia" sites, but want to make sure that all with Azoospermia find this information quickly and don't just "stumble" upon it a year later in their journey, like we did :-))

    Something interesting I read about "Inhibin B" levels fromhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12749428

    They did a study on the effects of Inhibin B on the outcomes of testicular sperm extraction (TESE) and of intracytoplasmic sperm injection (ICSI). They looked at two groups of men with non-obstructive azoospermia
    - group "A1" of 25 ICSI cycles from 42 men with Inhibin B <15 pg/mL = 21% fertilisation
    - group "A2" of 35 ICSI cycles from 33 men with Inhibin B > or = 15 pg/mL. = 48% fertilisation

    I know it's not definitive, but it sort of indicates why Dr Golovsky thinks highly of doing the Inhibin B test, and how those with levels <15 he gives 20% chance, while two others here on Bubhub have mentioned previously he gave them 50% chance (I'm guessing now that their Inhibin B levels were >15). Again, I wish we'd known the importance of that test, and would have asked to have had that done a year ago too!! Hindsight is great - I just hope that some others will read this in the future and get the test done as soon as someone mentions a sperm issue. Wish everyone luck :-)

    Interestingly I only found out about those percentage chances after our visit to Dr Golovsky. He didn't give us a percentage chance, and instead used the words "very good" chance, a little later in the appointment an "excellent" chance, and later that we'd probably get straws to freeze!!

  10. #29
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    Quick update.... Dr Golovsky seemed quite dissapointed that he didn't find more than one "good" sperm - a lot of hard work for one. But that one has fertilised and will be transferred tomorrow.

  11. #30
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    Well, with just one sperm... I can say I'm PUPO!!! Kind of seems a miracle to get even to that stage, when the majority of men have 50,000 sperm each time, and here we are with an embryo from just 1 good sperm!! The other two eggs (which probably had the twitchers) didn't do anything.

    I had my ET this morning, and unlike in my first cycle, that speculum thing hurt absolutely massively. I was in so much pain, and I told Prof I so. At one point I was hurting so much that I was about to faint, and thought I was going to mess up the whole ET. I mostly had my eyes shut, and only opened them briefly to see my beautiful 7 cell grade A embryo on the screen. Then I closed them again and instructed DH to look lots at the embryo and enjoy it for me!!! The ET was nothing like my first cycle ET, nor pap smears etc, but Prof I didn't seem fazed that I was in inordinate amount of pain, and just said it will be over soon. That 5-10 minutes was the longest ever. As soon as he took it out, it was fine, but I'm sure it wasn't in right or something. Anyhow, not withstanding excruciating pain, we have one beautiful 7 cell grade A embryo transferred, and Prof I seemed very happy about that. And so are we


 

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