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  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tam-I-Am View Post
    I'm seriously not trying to point fingers, here. Really, honestly. I don't think anybody is doing anything intentionally harmful, malicious or otherwise mean.

    But I wonder how it is that you can resolve what you just said with this, AB?

    1) Modifying your behaviour has an impact on your risk of being raped

    Ergo

    2) If you do not modify your behaviour your risk of being raped has increased

    Ergo

    3) You have some responsibility in reducing your risk of being raped

    (final) ergo

    4) If you do not reduce those risks, take those steps, then you have some responsibility in having been raped if it is to occur.

    I just can't see how you can go to step three but not see how it leads to step four? (I'm genuinely not trying to be an a4$ehole here. I just don't get it, and I'm really trying to - because I can't see another way that that logic plays out. If you have responsibility in impacting the outcome, if the outcome that you didn't prevent occurs, you were responsible).

    I can't think of another situation that this wouldn't hold true?
    Tam, what you did in this post was label everyone who modifies their behaviour as victim blaming.

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  3. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by share a book View Post
    Tam, what you did in this post was label everyone who modifies their behaviour as victim blaming.
    No, I didn't. In fact I have said explicitly that people who conduct a risk assessment and modify their own behaviour are NOT engaging in victim blaming.

    Ie
    I don't think that doing a risk assessment and deciding to modify our own behaviours (or that of our children) based on that risk assessment is victim-blaming
    I said that if you then use your own risk assessment to asses OTHER people's risks and find their behaviour lacking - THEN you are victim-blaming.

    I really don't know how to say that more clearly. I'm sorry, I wish I did know because I'm clearly causing confusion and offence and I'm not intending to, at all.

    ETA: I said in a post to Annabella this:

    I was interpreting your risk assessment as being something that you evaluated for other women too (ie that THEY shouldn't walk down dark streets, or go out after dark, or whatever), and thereby if they didn't do those things they were somehow responsible if they were raped.
    I also stated that I now realise that I was wrong, and that people aren't necessarily imposing their own risk assessments on other women - and if they're not, they're not victim-blaming.
    Last edited by Tam-I-Am; 19-01-2012 at 12:42.

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    I guess I just don't know if this is the right place to label people based on what they have been through and how they behave following their experience.

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    This is why, in my opinion, there needs to be much more care and empathy exercised in these sort of threads.

    We're not discussing different ways of coping with petty theft (which can be horrible in itself, obviously) - we're discussing the aftermath of what sexual assault victims go through. Many of us have experienced it and have said so...however many, many hubbers have experienced it and *do not* discuss it anywhere on these forums for fear of the response they'll get.

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    Theres a time and a place for offensive lables and in a thread with people who have experienced abuse isnt one of them.

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  11. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Homestar View Post
    Theres a time and a place for offensive lables and in a thread with people who have experienced abuse isnt one of them.
    You're making assumptions about who has and hasn't experienced sexual assault. Just because somebody doesn't actually come right out and say "I'm a rape victim and this is my story" doesn't mean it hasn't happened to them.

    You're also making assumptions about why it is that somebody would be so against victim-blaming.

    I think it's very important to discuss what does and doesn't constitute victim-blaming - because it's such a regular and unconscious part of our social structure, and everywhere people who HAVE been sexually assaulted and raped turn, there is discussion about why it is that they were, at the very least, 'partially responsible' for their own assaults. Which I hope we can all agree is unacceptable.

    And I absolutely agree with Pinkzy. These threads need to be treated with caution (because not everyone will disclose their experiences) and a great deal of empathy for those who *do* disclose their experiences.

    And I'll repeat this again: Most victim-blaming isn't done maliciously, in my experience or belief. It's done almost unconsciously, and it's a part of our social conditioning. It's done because we all want to feel safe, and because we feel that if we can modify something about ourselves that will bring about our safety - and then we extrapolate that to other people and take it one step further and make judgements on their behaviour, mode of dress, actions etc.

    If we're judging ourselves, well, it worries me to be honest - because there are a lot of rape victims who blame themselves and that's just so wrong. But if we're judging others and blaming them, then it needs to be addressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by shareabook
    I guess I just don't know if this is the right place to label people based on what they have been through and how they behave following their experience.
    I agree. Which is why that's not what I've done.

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    I'm going to close this thread today, to give everybody a chance to clear their heads.

    Thanks

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