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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkingClassMum View Post
    I question the Wisdom of the StrangerDanger catch cry. What constitutes a stranger? Many women (maybe most) know their rapist. Most kids know their abuser. . I don't teach StrangerDanger after we had an extension done at home, because suddenly we were inviting all theses hither-to previous strangers into our home and my DD was confused. The people within my family who have been raped have only ever been raped by known and trusted people. This is one large area where locking the doors and not getting into strangers cars would not have save the people within my family. Yes, incidents do not make for facts and stats.. I honestly do believe that the constant flow of information that women are *responsible* to avoid being raped without the balanced education that men must stop being rapists is where the underlying message of victim blaming comes from. .This is pretty much how the conversation went a few years ago when a family friend was raped;"I went out wearing my short black skirt, I knew it was too short, Dad hates that skirt and mum says its inviting trouble. I did dance with him and I didn't really like him, maybe he thought I liked home, I did get drunk I knew that was stupid, he offered me a lift home I knew I shouldn't have accepted that but I thought he was being nice, he lives near me. I told him I was tired and going to bed, maybe he thought that was an offer, I didn't lock the door I know I should lock the door and when he came in I was too confused and frightens to say no in case he did something worse so I can't report it because I knew I shouldn't have gone out in a short skirt and got drunk. Please don't tell my parents as they'll think I was stupid in the first place".Ergo, one unreported rape, one victim blaming herself as that is the repeated message she's been given since she was little. She did not break the law the rapist did and she won't report it as she truely believes that it was her own fault. Btw the rapist was someone she knew through uni.
    I also teach her to be aware of her own body signals, like I already said, not just stranger danger.

    While you don't get our view, I don't getthis view. How is it victim blaming for me to closely watch my child, to teach her to trust her instincts, to teach her to not go off with strangers? How is it victim blaming to say that I will not leave my house open, or leave my house and walk the street after dark? I live in a high crime area, so will not leave the house for fear of an encounter with an unsavoury type. I will not allow my child to, either. I really cannot see how that is victim blaming???

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    Further to that, how is what I teach, in my home, with my family, any indication of how I feel about the choices other people make?

  3. #63
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    Share a book has experienced a tragic event that I wished she never had to. That's exactly what it is - experience. Many women have the same view as I did and aren't aware of how often it happens. So it's not victim blaming for Share a Book to take precautions herself or to teach her kids precautions. Merely actions based on her experience. I hardly think she is going to be sitting back saying to a rape victim "well why were you out at that time of night?" etc.

    I wish the world was a different place. I wish that women could go out at night without fear. I wish that boys were taught from a young age that in every possible way - morally, legally, spiritually and so on - rape is wrong. And then that that teaching paid dividends and they listened and that rape ceased to exist.

    But that isn't the world we live in. The world we live in a a harsh and cruel one at times. And people like share a book have tasted that cruelty. A lot have. A lot haven't. For those that haven't and are not as aware of the dangers, they can't be blamed for the horrible actions of a sick and twisted person. But people like share a book can't be blamed for taking precautions either.

    To all those that have suffered as a rape victim . I can't begin to imagine what you went through. It makes me sick that so many of you have had this happen to you.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by GluttonForPunishment View Post
    Share a book has experienced a tragic event that I wished she never had to. That's exactly what it is - experience. Many women have the same view as I did and aren't aware of how often it happens. So it's not victim blaming for Share a Book to take precautions herself or to teach her kids precautions. Merely actions based on her experience. I hardly think she is going to be sitting back saying to a rape victim "well why were you out at that time of night?" etc.

    I wish the world was a different place. I wish that women could go out at night without fear. I wish that boys were taught from a young age that in every possible way - morally, legally, spiritually and so on - rape is wrong. And then that that teaching paid dividends and they listened and that rape ceased to exist.

    But that isn't the world we live in. The world we live in a a harsh and cruel one at times. And people like share a book have tasted that cruelty. A lot have. A lot haven't. For those that haven't and are not as aware of the dangers, they can't be blamed for the horrible actions of a sick and twisted person. But people like share a book can't be blamed for taking precautions either.

    To all those that have suffered as a rape victim . I can't begin to imagine what you went through. It makes me sick that so many of you have had this happen to you.

    Thanks, yeah, I don't know how it makes someone a victim blamer to make certain choices. Yes, I am paranoid. No, it is not a nice way to live. No matter who it is that's at fault, we are the ones who live with the consequences day in, day out, so if I can reduce the chances of it happening again I will. It may not work, but it just might, and that makes it worthwhile to me.

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    It's wishful thinking. You can be passionate about something and you can know what is right and wrong, you can hope beyond hope that your message will get through and people wont rape. That they will be taught its not OK to rape and the message will get across that way...

    .. then there is reality and the reality is that it's just not going to happen. It wont stop it will keep happening and I think its irresponsible to not be teaching young children girls AND boys about added caution. You can teach caution without laying blame because the very first thing you can and should say is that its never their fault. There's no point bringing them up to expect that they wont be hurt because they have a right not to be. Thats not the world we live in and as much as that sucks thats how it is.

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    I think most rape survivors feel the same way.

    we all become hyper vigilant and teach our kids to be that way too.
    I will tell my children to never walk alone in the dark. To watch their drinks.

    all of this is , is normal.
    I do not blame a rape survivor , even if she was naked and drunk in the street.
    I would not blame a prostitute or a stripper..

    none of these women deserve rape. NO ONE does.

    but of course i am going to teach my girls anything i can that just may keep them safe.... of course i dont believe for a second that it will 100% protect them ...but as a mum who has been raped repeatedly, there is no way I am going to sit back and do nothing.

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  9. #67
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    I go over and over everything often, and there was nothing I did wrong at all. But I will not rock up to the house of someone I don't know/don't know well, without another person. That may or may not be enough, but it has to be better than going alone should the situation arise again.

    I am not a victim blamer, and will not tollerate being called one.

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  11. #68
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    I am very much of the same opinion as Beryls Mum & SAB. As someone who's been through this I feel it's my *duty* not just as a mother but as a woman to warn my daughter (and son for that matter) of the dangers out there.

    I know we shouldn't 'have to' but hey, that's life. That's reality. I do think there needs to be more emphasis placed on men and teaching them about rape, educating men in general from an early age how and how not to treat other women (and people). However I live in the real world and the fact is women DO need to do what they can, where they can to reduce the risk of being attacked.

    Those of us here who've been through it have different experiences and very different circumstances, for some of us - we knew the predator, for others - they didn't know the predator. Fact is, none of us are at fault and of course we will do whatever we can to ensure that it never happens to our kids.

    That's not victim blaming I'm afraid - it's common sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinkzy View Post
    That's not victim blaming I'm afraid - it's common sense.
    My wife and I were burgled once - the burglars let our dogs out in the process, & one was hit & killed by a car. Some of our property was taken, and there was mild vandalism as well. Obviously not as traumatic as rape, but we still felt victimised.

    In response, we purchased a monitored alarm system, so that we would be alerted if we needed to go home & rescue the dogs. We also organised a Neighbourhood Watch group.

    Should we have had to do any of those things? No. Did the fact that we didn't have a burglar alarm somehow make us partially responsible for the burglary? No. Was it victim-blaming for a friend to suggest that we should get a burglar alarm? No.

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  15. #70
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    I honestly think something is being lost in translation here.

    I don't think that doing a risk assessment and deciding to modify our own behaviours (or that of our children) based on that risk assessment is victim-blaming (and hope that what I've said hasn't been construed as me thinking so. If it's come across that way then I've really failed to communicate my meaning and I'm sorry).

    I think IMPOSING our own risk assessments on the world IS a form of victim blaming though. Ie "I don't walk down dark alleys at night - no woman should. If they do, then they're just asking for trouble" is definitely victim-blaming.

    If I personally am walking through town late at night and look down a certain street and think "Nahhh, just not going to do it", of course that's not victim-blaming. But if another woman chose to walk down that street and I said to her "Well, I wouldn't have done that - it's too dangerous", that suddenly converts it from being able my own risk assessment to being about her (apparently erroneous) one, and how she failed herself.

    Do you get what I mean?

    Of course we all teach our children to do what we think is safe and that's appropriate parenting. But if we judge others for having a different risk assessment that so easily flows into something more sinister.

    And it's soooo easy to do - as Pinkzy said earlier on in the thread, the NUMBER ONE question asked of rape victims is "Why did you put yourself in that position?". How can this be interpreted as anything BUT victim-blaming? And it comes at a direct result of imposing our OWN risk-assessment analyses on somebody else. That's what victim-blaming is.

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