2012 Nursing and Midwifery students chat

[Parksider]

Quick job update - had a day at uni with all the midwifery, nursing and dual graduates for mid year and they did a show of hands of people who already have job offers for August intake (qld health graduate and private sector offers have already been made) was about 1/2 to 2/3 of 70ish of us that raised our hands....

Also interestingly 12/14 bmid girls have jobs (1 is having a baby in August and the other wants to take 6 months off to spend time with her kids, so really 100%) whereas none of the 10 dual degree girls have either midwifery or nursing offers..... Food for thought....

Thank you so much for the job update! I really appreciate the info.

That is very interesting that the BMid girls all got jobs, but none of the dual degree girls did. What do you think is the reason for that?

I wonder whether it's because the BMid girls did more placement hours in the maternity unit, so therefore had more of a chance to build a relationship with their potential employer. My husband, cynic that he is, wonders if it is because those with a BMid only have fewer pay grades they can progress through than those with the RN qualification as well (ie: the BMid girls will ultimately be cheaper).

What becomes of those who don't have job offers? I believe to even work in an agency pool you need a year of post-grad experience.

It makes me feel a bit anxious, to be honest, as only the dual is offered at my local uni. I so desperately want to become a midwife, but I am terrified of getting into a degree, giving it my heart and soul, and then not finding a job at the end...

If you hear anything more about the employment outcomes of your cohort, please continue to update us. Thank you so much!

PS: When do you officially start your job as a registered midwife? It must be exciting and daunting all at once!

[Hollywood]

If you (or your partners) had just gone through the Police Academy, Military basic training, completed your medical degree etc you would be expected to move to where the work is, so nursing/midwifery needs to be treated the same IMO.

I'm really hoping this only applies to small towns/cities and not Melbourne where I am! I absolutely cannot move from Melbourne (I'm single and my kids have different dads and I can't move away from either of them). But then Melbourne is so huge and we have so many maternity hospitals, I would have thought the job opportunities were MUCH greater than up north where you all have smaller populations.

It's weird, because anyone I speak to hear that's a nurse or in healthcare always says how there is a shortage of nurses and midwives. Not sure where they're getting their information from, but if it is true it must be a big city thing...perhaps? Either that or people are just pulling facts out of their behinds, lol.

Anyway that's interesting that the BMid students all got jobs but not the BNursing/BMid students. It makes me think that maybe I am better off applying to ACU here in Melbourne after all.

[monkey face]

That is very interesting that the BMid girls all got jobs, but none of the dual degree girls did. What do you think is the reason for that?

I wonder whether it's because the BMid girls did more placement hours in the maternity unit, so therefore had more of a chance to build a relationship with their potential employer. My husband, cynic that he is, wonders if it is because those with a BMid only have fewer pay grades they can progress through than those with the RN qualification as well (ie: the BMid girls will ultimately be cheaper).

I'm pretty sure both of these impact. While the interviews are conducted higher up, the employees that worked with the students doing the pure BMID would have been able to report on their conduct and work ethics a lot better than those that they did not work as long with. It's the number 1 reason the UQ students get spots in grad programs over all other SE QLD uni students. Their placement rate is almost at 100%.

And then your husband's thoughts too. DEM's stop advancing in pay rate by Grade 5 level 3 ($62,108); Nurse-midwives can advance to Grade 5 level 7 ($72,896) but then the Nurse-midwives can proceed to 'clinical' which is $74,148 to $79,431. BUT if the Nurse-midwife then chooses, she can also choose for the hospital to pay for her to become a Nurse Practitioner- while they are studying for it, it instantly bumps their pay up to between $91,153 to $97,676 and once they have completed the NP they are $102, 690 to $105,255. Can start to see why when they don't yet have the current nurse-midwives retiring, they are wanting to stick with the ones that stop at only $62,000 and don't get any more expensive, especially when the budget is almost non-existant. But stats are showing that within the next 5-10 years, more than 75% of current nurse-midwives will be retiring; which means they will be needed an inrush of new ones with those same qualification as it is what hospital managment prefer.

Best of luck in deciding which degree/s you want to go for. Uni is a lot of fun

[Parksider]

I'm not sure what your husband is talking about as RN's and RM's on the exact same wage award and have the same pay grades.

I'm very happy to be wrong on this, but my info (and monkeyface's too I would assume) comes from here: http://www.health.qld.gov.au/nursing...eer_struct.asp This seems to indicate that a midwife (only) cannot progress through as many pay points as a RNM?

I suspect it could be because as a BMid you have more experience in the maternity setting than a dual degree. For e.g we did 3 years of midwifery placement whereas dual degree students would have done 2 years of nursing and 2 years of midwifery. There didn't seem to be many positions this round (see below) so I guess they really had to narrow their choices. I know people who didn't even get an interview at the hospital I got a job at. The people that did our interviews were the higher-uppers/HR who don't work in the clinical area anymore, so I doubt that building a relationship up with them affected anything.

See, I think it could still play a part - you are much more of a known quantity than a dual degree lady who would have done fewer shifts in maternity than you. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a scenario where there was student on placement that the preceptors were particularly happy with, so that person's name got mentioned to HR as somebody that "needs to be on the interview list", if you know what I mean? Because otherwise why would only some people even get shortlisted for interview and others not? I am hope I'm not coming across as doubting you (as you have the experience, after all!), I'm just trying to make sense of it all.

For those that didn't get jobs their only options are to apply again for the January intake, or hope that spots (not in a grad program, just midwife positions) pop up over the the next 6 months.

Ouch! That would be the worst. So they're literally going to be sitting on their hands for 6 months, hoping they don't lose too many of their freshly acquired skills?

I guess moral of the story is that you have to be prepared to apply to hospitals outside your area (i.e not just the one hospital in Brisbane that you did all your placement at) and interstate and move to get that job.

If you (or your partners) had just gone through the Police Academy, Military basic training, completed your medical degree etc you would be expected to move to where the work is, so nursing/midwifery needs to be treated the same IMO.

Yes, that is very true. I know that when I did my BEd a million years ago, we had to be prepared to move anywhere in the state to get a teaching job (only I got very lucky and got one in our same city ... most others did not). However, back in those days we didn't have kids settled in school, and my husband wasn't very high up the ladder and so much more flexible with work location. I'm sure most of the mature-age ladies who enter midwifery would be in a similar boat with regard to family commitments. It's a tricky one, isn't it?

I wonder whether this sort of job "shortage" is largely in VIC (as we all hear) and south east Queensland? As I've said ad nauseum, I'm in regional QLD, and am finding it difficult to find out much at all about job prospects here. However, I really appreciate the info about the job market in SEQ, it is good food for thought.

[Parksider]

I'm really hoping this only applies to small towns/cities and not Melbourne where I am! I absolutely cannot move from Melbourne (I'm single and my kids have different dads and I can't move away from either of them). But then Melbourne is so huge and we have so many maternity hospitals, I would have thought the job opportunities were MUCH greater than up north where you all have smaller populations.

Hey Hollywood,

I empathise with your situation -- not everyone is as flexible and portable as we'd like to be.

I hate to be a downer, but a lot of the anecdotal evidence around suggests that Melbourne/Victoria is one of the hardest places for a BMid grad to find employment. I'm not sure population concentration has a lot to do with it, although you would think that it should. I think it has to do with certain places being more desirable to live in - it's the same as when I did my teaching degree - there were certain places that a new grad would never have a hope of cracking into, because all of the older teachers had first choice of where they wanted to go (rightfully so, they had put in the hard yards when they were younger). Also, many of the positions in these "desirable" areas had been filled for a few decades by the same person who has no intention of moving, hence fewer positions for fresh blood are opening up. I would be willing to bet a lot of the same can be said for nursing/midwifery.

Also, the south-east corner of QLD (Brisbane/Gold Coast/Ipswich/Logan etc) is not exactly "small" . There seems to be a similar situation developing, where there are quite a number of programs churning out students, but only a certain number of maternity settings in that region able to employ them.

It's weird, because anyone I speak to hear that's a nurse or in healthcare always says how there is a shortage of nurses and midwives. Not sure where they're getting their information from, but if it is true it must be a big city thing...perhaps? Either that or people are just pulling facts out of their behinds, lol.

I actually think the shortage is more of a regional/rural thing. At least until this promised wave of nurse/midwife retirements takes place in the next 5 years or so. I dunno - I'm still a little skeptical of this impending mass retirement thing. They said the same with the teaching workforce 10 years ago, and there are many BEd grads looking for work, and the universities just keep pumping more out.

Anyway that's interesting that the BMid students all got jobs but not the BNursing/BMid students. It makes me think that maybe I am better off applying to ACU here in Melbourne after all.

Take what I say with a grain of salt, as I obviously I have not done either nursing or midwifery. And you know your own situation better than anyone. However, if you have absolutely no choice but to stay in Melbourne, wouldn't you be better off doing the dual? Then if you don't secure a mid position upon graduation, you can also widen your search to include any nursing positions that are going?

[RHJ]

Hey Hollywood,

I empathise with your situation -- not everyone is as flexible and portable as we'd like to be.

I hate to be a downer, but a lot of the anecdotal evidence around suggests that Melbourne/Victoria is one of the hardest places for a BMid grad to find employment. I'm not sure population concentration has a lot to do with it, although you would think that it should. I think it has to do with certain places being more desirable to live in - it's the same as when I did my teaching degree - there were certain places that a new grad would never have a hope of cracking into, because all of the older teachers had first choice of where they wanted to go (rightfully so, they had put in the hard yards when they were younger). Also, many of the positions in these "desirable" areas had been filled for a few decades by the same person who has no intention of moving, hence fewer positions for fresh blood are opening up. I would be willing to bet a lot of the same can be said for nursing/midwifery.

Take what I say with a grain of salt, as I obviously I have not done either nursing or midwifery. And you know your own situation better than anyone. However, if you have absolutely no choice but to stay in Melbourne, wouldn't you be better off doing the dual? Then if you don't secure a mid position upon graduation, you can also widen your search to include any nursing positions that are going?

I agree with parksider. Certainly don't apply any comments from interstate with Victoria. Last year was an incredibly hard place to get a grad year for any midwifery students, and this year is NOT going to be any better if current numbers are anything to go by. From my calculations there is approximately 80 Melbourne (so out to as far as werribee) positions for midwifery advertised via computer match. Yes there are more places outside of this, but these are the main public hospitals (and a couple of private) ones. From my calculations there are about 120-130 graduating BMID students graduating from ACU, Monash and VU. PLUS you have any double degree students who only want to work directly in midwifery to factor in too. So there is certain to be people who miss out. Things change too so some hospitals may take more or less than advertised... who knows!

[Hollywood]

I agree with parksider. Certainly don't apply any comments from interstate with Victoria. Last year was an incredibly hard place to get a grad year for any midwifery students, and this year is NOT going to be any better if current numbers are anything to go by. From my calculations there is approximately 80 Melbourne (so out to as far as werribee) positions for midwifery advertised via computer match. Yes there are more places outside of this, but these are the main public hospitals (and a couple of private) ones. From my calculations there are about 120-130 graduating BMID students graduating from ACU, Monash and VU. PLUS you have any double degree students who only want to work directly in midwifery to factor in too. So there is certain to be people who miss out. Things change too so some hospitals may take more or less than advertised... who knows!

Yeah, things can certainly change. It's a good 4-5 years until I'd be graduating, so that's lots of time for change. It doesn't put me off the course though, I'm sure it will all work out in the end

[RHJ]

That's true... there was desperate need for midwives the year before I started - and by the time they graduated there were too few grad spots. Fingers crossed for you honey

[monkey face]

Just going by what I have been told re: 'shortages'

Midwifery- The shortage is as one of the ladies said further up; a shortage of experienced MW's. It's also looking long term; as I said within the next 5-10 years it's been reported that around 75% of midwives australia wide will be retiring.

Nursing- Shortage is in specialised nurses as well as general experienced nurses. The same retirement time frame has been guestimated, however not as big a percent retiring.


There is minimal money in the budget for graduate programs; as another of the ladies mentioned, they have cut working hours of graduates so they are able to try and get double the amount in (both for nursing and midwifery) just to give them that first year experience so they have better chances of getting a job elsewhere. One thing many have found helped them if they didn't get into a grad program was putting their name into one of the casual pools that call when a hospital is short staffed. They get up to 5 offers a day for places to work, and if they want the day off they just take it. Down side is no sick pay or holiday pay. But even if it's just for that 1 years experience that all the hospitals went before employing, it's worth it.

There is a shortage out rural too; but the hospitals/practices out there don't take midwives unless they have a nursing degree too, as they don't have the money to hire both nurses and midwives (and the demand for midwives is a lot less, the further rural you and the larger population is men and older women) so they have to be able to do both the jobs when there is no midwife related jobs on that day or when the nurses get inundated. I'm not sure if they do the same with the grad program spots they offer, though, or will take RM's with no nursing experience.


Down south is harder than up here- many from the southern states are applying for the grad programs up here and getting in over the students from QLD. But places such as Rocky (you could live in Yeppoon, right on the water, and travel the 20 minutes to Rocky for work..nicer place to live) or other smaller cities that are in the middle of no where and surrounding small towns use them as their base hospital should have positions galore for both nursing and midwifery.

[mishh]

Hellooooo!

Popping in to see how everyone's study is going! I am currently on break (return 9/7 - I am missing it haha). Exam results come out in 1 week, I am excited and petrified at the same time! I did really well on all my assignments so fingers crossed

How is everyone else?