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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by InBetween View Post
    Whether you agree with baptism or not is irrelevant. Touting that it shouldn't happen because it's a manmade tradition is not only unhelpful but ignorant.
    Im not ignorant im simply stating its not a biblical practice. This case in based on the mother being a christian and the daughter attending a christian school so i would think the real meaning and purpose of baptism according to the bible would be of utmost importance.

    Baptism is for an individual when he /she decides to of his own accord, to dedicate his life to God. For good reason a small child cannot possibly make that decision and take on board all that it entails Therefore i believe the right decision was made. Its not something that should be entered into lightly.

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    Children shouldnt be baptised anyway, its not a biblical practice, its a man made tradition.
    But you weren't just stating it wasn't a biblical practice, Shan. You were stating that the practice shouldn't happen based on the earlier assertion.

    Attending church isn't a biblical practice either.
    Neither is praying the rosary.
    Neither are a lot of rituals.
    That doesn't mean they are irrelevant and shouldn't happen.

    Baptism is not for the individual to decide. In modernity, it is usually for the family of the newborn child to decide and is done usually as a consensus. That is, everyone in the family agrees that it should be done. Baptism is not a dedication of one's life to God - don't get them confused with canonical vows - baptism is an introduction to the church and including the child in that family.

    That the child is already attending a Christian school means that baptism is not a prerequisite nor an important element in her education or wellbeing. If this were so, the mother would have been able to show this to the Court. As it was, she wasn't.

    People are also assuming that the father had a say as to where the child attended school. Quite often, they don't and I would wager that in this case the father didn't.

    Bottom line is that the Court has recognised that the father has a say so too in how the child is brought up and has essentially told the mother to get back in her box and accept this. And I am glad to see that this is happening.
    Last edited by InBetween; 27-12-2011 at 01:58. Reason: added the original quote

  3. #63
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    Well see i base my opinion on what what the bible says. Not man made traditions, i dont see how that is ignorant or unhelpful, shouldnt it be whats most important? As a christian i follow only what the bible says, not complicate things by what man has decided is right and practices that have nothing to do with the bible at all. The bible is the final authority for me. Not modernisation. Not man.

    Actually meeting for worship was practiced by first century christians and they had congregations. And Jesus himself attended the temple in worship to his father as did other faithful christians and we are encouraged to continue meeting together right up until the end - 'And let us consider one another to incite to love and fine works, not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near.' - Hebrews 10:24,25

    But no you are right the other things u mentioned are not biblical practices so i do not practice them! Its Jesus' example set out in the bible we are to follow, not mans, he made this very clear and its even strongly warned against. The bible makes it clear whom baptism is for and what it is to acomplish. Its only adults that are recorded as being baptised and for good reason. The definition u have given for baptism is not what the bible says at all, you have actually changed the definition of baptism from what Jesus actually said! and what first century christians practiced! and it should be what is followed. Jesus himself wadnt baptised until he was 29.

    ▪ Christian baptism involves complete immersion in water, not just sprinkling.—Matthew 3:16.
    ▪ Steps leading to baptism begin with taking in knowledge and showing faith followed by repentance, conversion, and the dedicating of oneself to God.—John 17:3; Acts 3:19; 18:8.
    ▪ To make a dedication to God, you must disown yourself, even as people disowned themselves to follow Jesus.—Mark 8:34.
    ▪ Baptism symbolizes dying to one’s former way of life and becoming alive to do God’s will.—1 Peter 4:2.

    In the Bible, only believers who had placed their faith in Christ were baptized - as a public testimony of their faith and identification with Him (Acts 2:38; Romans 6:3-4). Water baptism by immersion is a step of obedience after faith in Christ. It is a proclamation of faith in Christ, a statement of submission to Him, and an identification with His death, burial, and resurrection.

    In reference to baptism, Jesus siad at Matthew 28:9 " Go therefore and make disciples, baptizing them"

    Disciple meaning one that spreads the teaching of another, therefore ones that preach Gods word. So disciples should be baptized only.

    Disciple means

    a. One who embraces and assists in spreading the teachings of another.

    b. One who receives instruction from another; a scholar; a learner; especially, a follower who has learned to believe in the truth of the doctrine of his teacher;

    c. imitating the teacher’s life, inculcating his values, and reproducing his teachings.

    An infant or young child cant do any of those things? There is not one account of infant baptism in the bible. Yet many accounts of failthful followers who were adults being baptised as a symbol of their dedication to serve God whole souled.

    Anyway im not here to argue but my opinion stands as the fact is its not a biblical practice. That cannot be argued its there in black and white. U yourself agreed ,its a 'modernisation' a man made tradtion, not Gods. Christianity should be in harmony with the bible.


    Last edited by ShanandBoc; 27-12-2011 at 07:10.

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  5. #64
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    Shan, I really don't know anything about baptism but I was talking to one of DH friends about it last night, he is a Baptist and he was saying everything you just said about it , we should be adults so we can willingly accept Jesus ( which makes sense to me) he said that the early Christians started to christen babies as a substitute for circumcision , and that the Catholics started it a few hundred years later as they believed babies were born with original sin and were not pure? Have you heard those reasons before?

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    Quote Originally Posted by peekaboomummy View Post
    Whist I see your point I think it's safer to err on the side of caution, you cannot undo being baptized, you can however have it done at a later age.
    that is what I said, yes. That was my point

  7. #66
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    I agree with Shan. I strongly believe religion should be a conscious decision made by an informed adult.

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  9. #67
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    What is done can be undone.

    But how you feel about baptism is not relevant in this thread. You're veering off topic which I find to be a common theme in BubHub when people are stuck for argument.

    I'm not about to venture into a theological debate, particularly when it's obvious that those volunteering for one are not well versed in the subject.

    Let's just stick to the topic at hand which is about how a Court ruled about a mother's appeal against an earlier ruling.

    And if you can't, then start a spin off thread.

  10. #68
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    Ok I'll re-phrase. I think that religion should be a conscious decision made by an informed adult, so I believe in this case the courts were entirely correct in preventing the mother from baptising the child against the father's wishes, thereby allowing the child to decide for herself when she is an adult.
    For the record, the Catholic Church doesn't recognise baptisms being "undone", and Shan backed up her points with references to the bible, seems pretty well versed to a well read heathen like me!

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