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  1. #61
    Ulysses's Avatar
    Ulysses is offline In the eyes of a child you will see...the world as it should be.
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    As already mentioned there is no Scientific link between autism & vaccines, but one poster mentions autism being more serious than rubella or other diseases....as far as I know autism never killed anybody but many many vaccine preventable illness have. I think there is a misunderstanding that vaccine preventable illnesses are mild & don't have long lasting effects - for some that is true but not for all. Both chicken pox & rubella can have very severe complications that are life long & in some cases life threatening. Even today to 20% of people who get the measles are hospitalized. Before vaccines approximately 600 children used to die every year in the US alone from meningitis & around 450 kids would die each year of the measles & 150 of chicken pox.....note the word die. Before the mumps vaccine, it was the leading cause of childhood deafness..I would call that a lifelong issue. If vaccinations were stopped the CDC estimates that approximately 2.7 million deaths would result worldwide. Last time I counted there were zero cases of autism caused by vaccines but plenty of deaths caused by vaccine preventable illness. The stats on deaths & complications caused by vaccines preventable illness far outweighs the small number of complications caused by vaccines themselves particularly with regard to whooping cough, chicken pox & rubella. The stats are there for anyone who wants to read, if you do the math it is hard to understand this argument about side effects. If you ask me people who don't vaccinate are taking a big gamble with their own & other peoples lives based on a "maybe" threat versus a "proven"threat like vpd,s. I just don't understand how people can read these stats & still say, I would pref to have all of these things possibly happen rather than take a chance that a vaccine will cause autism or that an ingredient will hurt me.
    Last edited by Ulysses; 26-11-2011 at 16:21.

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by samsausage View Post
    OT but what the hey

    Bizarre as it sounds I'd be thrilled if the definitive cause/trigger of ASD was vaccines. Why - because it would firstly mean an answer for those thousands of parents so depserately wanting to know why this has happened to their child. Secondly, if vaccines truly were the culprit - easy, no vaccines means an end to ASD, sadly thats not the case.
    Sorry, Sam

    I can kinda link it to stats... in discussing the statistical likelihood of contracting a VPD...?

    Or I can just say oops...

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    Sorry Girl X, I don't follow (trying to multitask atm and failing )

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    Quote Originally Posted by mummykitty View Post
    why would I? I don't rely on herd immunity I rely on a healthy immune system in my children..
    So no concern of diseases becoming more popular...diseases returning....because majority of people vax..kinda allows you to not vax..reduces the chance of your child contracting a disease...

    Kids used to get sick and die....

    I wonder if a 3rd world country would like to vax all their kids if given the chance?......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Girl X View Post
    When you say the risk of autism outweighs the risk of catching the other diseases - do you mean that you think the effects of autism are worse, or that you believe that the odds of getting autism from a vaccine are higher than the odds of getting one of the diseases we're talking about?

    As I said above, I look at measles (and other diseases) as something that can kill a child, so maybe that's why we view it differently.


    Yes and yes. Autism has many comorbid conditions.

    Some parents look at vaccines as something that could kill their children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mummykitty View Post
    why would I? I don't rely on herd immunity I rely on a healthy immune system in my children..
    I would find this really scary...sort of like russian roulette really.

    How do you know if your child's immune system is healthy enough? I just say this because as a paediatric critical care nurse I see so many kids come in very sick with diseases- many vaccine preventible- kids aged 13, 14 even and the parents will tell us how he/ she has never had any health issues until now. Healthy kids, eat properly, play sport, from good families who just haven't vaxxed or missed out on some vaccinations. It's scary stuff. I do understand I see the worst of the worst and the chances of this happening to everyone who doesn't vax is very small but watching kids die from these is just horrifying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peelnseal View Post
    I believe the parents.
    Autism is known to surface around the 2 year old mark, right around the time of MMR booster. Which is why I think many parents make the link. But lots of studies say that's coincidental, it just happens 2 years is the average mark.

    I think there's absolutely a place for anecdotal evidence. But I would rely on a large pool of peer reviewed research more. They all say there is no link. I have only seen one study that 'proved' a link and that was Wakefield, who as everyone knows is a charlaton.

    Autism is much likely a neurological issue which they are born with, but doesn't show it's face until later.

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    i for one am more likely to go with anecdotal evidence on a lot of things before i turn to science, especially with things like autism. i *can't* put that down to coincidence, there has to be something there. even if it is just a trigger that overloads the system and tips the balance.

    my proof is also anecdotal, sorry. my brother had a few jabs to visit a 3rd world country at age 11. immediately after he went downhill, he was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. coincidence? i don't think so.. mum immediately stopped getting us immunised then, at whatever stages we were at. i was 13. the only vax i've had since then was a couple of years ago and that was the cervical cancer one. even when they came around schools doing free vaxxes for meningococcal and stuff, mum simply didn't sign the form.
    it's the main reason i'm extremely wary of vaxxing kids or, as i tend to think of it, over-vaxxing them. you can't avoid every poisonous, cancer-causing etc thing in this world but you can do what you can.

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    anecdotally, I know one person who has disablities from a vaccine, and about 100 who have disabilities from catching a VPD.
    I wear glasses as I had chicken pox, and it has damaged my eyesight (I had pox on my eyeballs, and scarring)
    and the only child in my family who is unvaxxed is autistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maria02 View Post
    I would find this really scary...sort of like russian roulette really.

    How do you know if your child's immune system is healthy enough? I just say this because as a paediatric critical care nurse I see so many kids come in very sick with diseases- many vaccine preventible- kids aged 13, 14 even and the parents will tell us how he/ she has never had any health issues until now. Healthy kids, eat properly, play sport, from good families who just haven't vaxxed or missed out on some vaccinations. It's scary stuff. I do understand I see the worst of the worst and the chances of this happening to everyone who doesn't vax is very small but watching kids die from these is just horrifying.
    Mum worked as a nurse and was HORRIFIED when I told her I wasn't going to vaccinate my DD she spoke to a friend of the family who is a dr and had done the research looking for support to convince me and she ended up being convinced to my way of thinking. I understand the worst of the worst is what hospitals and doctors see but it's not the majority . I am actually swayed towards delayed selective individual vaccinations with how my life is at the moment but I can understand why people choose not to vaccinate having been there. Vaccinations are not 100% not every disease is likely to come up with everyone's lifestyle and it really does have to be a personal choice truth is I don't know my child is healthy enough who does.. But she has a good diet was breastfed till the month before she turned 3 sleeps well lives in a good area and receives good medical care having been monitored by a pediatrician since about 1yr I trust that his judgement and mine would let me know if I had reason to be concerned. I'm sure if I feel she is compromised I'll take extra precautions till she is healthy again but *for me* the benefits of vaccinating weren't high enough for me to warrant putting my precious newborn baby girl through the vaccination schedule as it is at present

    ETA: I don't buy into the autism debate personally.. I do believe that delaying by as little as a year can significantly lessen the chance of eczema, Athsma and other allergies coming up down the track these were the points that originally helped sway me along with the effectiveness and the presence of the diseases I was vaccinating for. I can always choose to vaccinate my daughter I cannot however undo that once it is done
    Last edited by mummykitty; 26-11-2011 at 21:05.

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