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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by peelnseal View Post
    It is insulting to use the word "casual" when talking about parents real beliefs that their childs Autism is linked to the MMR vaccine.

    This post makes it sound like "regression" is the way all cases of Autism are presented and diagnosed. Let us not forget what the studies of Tony Attwood show in being the common ages children are diagnosed on the spectrum and the fact that children are injected with MMR again at 4 years old.
    Sorry to jump in, samsausage, but peelnseal - she said "causal" (as in, one thing causing another) and not "casual". I think sam's stayed pretty respectful throughout this thread.

    A PP asked why people would discount anecdotal evidence. I think it's because it is, by nature, unreliable (in a scientific sense) due to the small sample sizes.

    If you were told (for example) that out of 1 million people doing X all were recorded, under test conditions, as having Y response then you would feel pretty certain that X led to Y. Even if 1 person in that study ended up with Z, you would still say that if you were doing X you were pretty much definitely going to get Y.

    Now if someone told you that despite that evidence, they had heard of a few people who had experienced Z, and so the study was replicated across different countries many many times, but all found that between 999,999 - 1 million people all got Y in every study...

    Well. In my case I would think that I believe X leads to Y for such a majority of cases to render anything else statistically insignificant. And by insignificant I don't mean that Z (in this case) would be insignificant, but I would say that Z is insignificant in terms of its linkage to X.

    It's a bit of a laboured analogy, but I hope it makes sense.

    There are many things that 'feel' true, but sometimes are really not. Correlation does not equal causation.

    If you have studied behavioural science then you may know of Skinner's experiements with pigeons, whereby they often end up doing what he termed 'superstitious dances' to get food, simply because they were doing a particular thing at a time when food was randomly delivered, so they repeated it to try to get the food again.

    I am not trying to insult anyone - just to explain why, for me at least, science prevails over anecdotal evidence.

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  3. #42
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    For people who don't vax..how would you feel if the majority say maybe 80% of pop in Australia decided not to vax as well...so most kids had no vax...would you feel concerned ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybelline View Post
    For people who don't vax..how would you feel if the majority say maybe 80% of pop in Australia decided not to vax as well...so most kids had no vax...would you feel concerned ...
    why would I? I don't rely on herd immunity I rely on a healthy immune system in my children..

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    ^^ I agree

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    Quote Originally Posted by mummykitty View Post
    why would I? I don't rely on herd immunity I rely on a healthy immune system in my children..
    I don't understand though, even healthy immune systems can't stop you catching things like measles if everyone gets it - like they used to before the vaccines? So that is herd immunity, because if no vaccines were available, it wouldn't matter how healthy your children are, we would all still be afraid of our children catching measles, polio, as high numbers of people got these diseases and were horribly deformed by them before vaccines. I guess what I am saying, is there only isn't a fear of catching them because they aren't rampant in our country. If they *were* would you be more likely to want to prevent that from happening?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maybelline View Post
    For people who don't vax..how would you feel if the majority say maybe 80% of pop in Australia decided not to vax as well...so most kids had no vax...would you feel concerned ...
    Do you really think a parent who has experienced their baby have a shocking reaction, die or can link their childs vax to Autism is going to take into account the rest of the populations vax status when its time to next vax that baby again or future children?

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    Quote Originally Posted by peelnseal View Post
    I would say many parents who have experienced Autism being diagnosed in their children will have thoughts that range from questioning to blaming the MMR.
    Parents have been saying for years that their toddler just stopped speaking over night- Doctors are fobbing off these parents saying this is a common age for Autism to "strike".

    BUT what about the 4 (used to be 5) year olds being vaccinated with MMR. Starting school age is a common age for children to be diagnosed as being on the spectrum.

    I think many parents DO skip the MMR out of fear of Autism. It could very well be that some parents do believe in this risk. Via Autism touching their family or word of mouth. One study that was thrown out is not going to squash something that is very real for many, many families.
    I skipped other things too with my child after my son was diagnosed not just vaccines but additives, dyes etc


    Quote Originally Posted by lineyb73 View Post

    There was a study recently down in germany regarding the health of unvaccinated verses vaccinated children and the unvaccinated had a huge lower number of things such as allergies, autism, asthmas, ear infections just to name a few. I also have friends who both have unvaccinated and vaccinated children and I see the huge difference in their health as well.

    Liney
    My first 3 children are fully vaxed my 5 year old is not and she has by far been 100% more healthy than the other three she rarely gets sick and when she does its a minor cold and she gets over it fast, can you send me a link to the study?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maybelline View Post
    For people who don't vax..how would you feel if the majority say maybe 80% of pop in Australia decided not to vax as well...so most kids had no vax...would you feel concerned ...
    I would be ok with it.

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    Peelnseal - what about a 7 year study involving over half a million children which showed no increase in autism in the vaccinated population? How does that not refute the idea that MMR does not trigger autism? I've linked it in earlier posts.

    As for the question of herd immunity, my fear is that we will have to get to that point where it drops to levels where VPDs really start making a comeback, it's a shame but I think we've got to the point where VPDs are a nebulous concept rather than harsh reality, people don't perceive them as a threat due to their low incidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by samsausage View Post
    Peelnseal - what about a 7 year study involving over half a million children which showed no increase in autism in the vaccinated population? How does that not refute the idea that MMR does not trigger autism? I've linked it in earlier posts.

    I believe the parents.

    As for the question of herd immunity, my fear is that we will have to get to that point where it drops to levels where VPDs really start making a comeback, it's a shame but I think we've got to the point where VPDs are a nebulous concept rather than harsh reality, people don't perceive them as a threat due to their low incidence.

    If you believe the vaccines work then whats the problem?

  13. #50
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    As the jury is out (well to me anyhow) with regard to vaccines I prefer to err on the side of caution and 'don't fix what ain't broken' and as such I am an extremely selective vaxxer, ie I'll only do it when/if there is a life threatening outbreak, as is currently happening in northland Nz, Meningococcal C.


 

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