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  1. #21
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    Wasn't that Danish study discredited ? I thought I read one of the danish researchers was working for the pharmaceutical companies and is in jail for fraud? I'll try find it tomorrow, too late for research!

  2. #22
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    So, not an attack on anyone, because I know nothing about autism and the theories of MMR, I just have a question.

    Measles causes death, steralisation in males, mental retardation, congenital disease etc, and before the vaccines it was a major problem with how many people contracted it and suffered the ill effects. WHO backs up its use and has helped to get it supplied to more countries because of how well the vaccine works. Now, in these countries, the number is very low. It should be eradicted and it would be if everyone got the vaccines. (I know not everyone can for medical reasons). So people need to keep having the vaccines as the number would increase if we stopped, as it hasn't been eradicated.

    So, I guess based on what I know about measles, why would an unproven risk of links to autism, or as Az said, "chemical overload" make you want to not vaccinate against something that is known to cause all of the above, because 100's of thousands of people have suffered from these effects of measles before the vaccines. Is it that the risk of chemicals outweighs the risk of getting measles now, due to herd immunity?

    Please be kind, I am honestly just asking anyone who knows the answer, as I have never read these threads and do not have a biting reply at the ready or anything like that lol.

  3. #23
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    Thanks all for replying

    This is going to sound bad but there is honestly no malice there. This thread was a response to being told in threads where people with anti-vax views did not wish to be questioned or debated. I asked that this be for people to present [I]Evidence[I], not opinion, not 'common sense', just fact. Much as we can all form hypothesis about environmental factors causing autism and a range of other ailments, it doesn't make it fact.

    Cheers

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    Atropos  (07-06-2012)

  5. #24
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    Wasn't that Danish study discredited ? I thought I read one of the danish researchers was working for the pharmaceutical companies and is in jail for fraud? I'll try find it tomorrow, too late for research!
    I went searching.........oh dear this is what really hate about the internet. No, Dr Paul Thorsen has not been 'discredited', he's been targeted (along with every researcher who has published studies which support vaccination) by two anti vaccination bloggers. I'm not going to link their site on principle but it's not hard to find. If you like your science flexible, cherry picked and generally trashy and you enjoy a good conspiracy theory then this ones for you.

  6. #25
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    I'm sorry, samsausage, because my post will not contain the irrefutable, scientifically based proof that you are looking for, here on bubhub. However I do find myself having to ask - why is the anecdotal evidence (lived experience) of parents (let's face it - mainly mothers) always completely discounted? Why is it that the person who spends the most amount of time with their child is believed to know the least about them? If my child had a shot and what I perceived to be a neurological reaction shortly thereafter, would I be believed by the medical establishment, and would my child's experience be taken into account when statistics where being collated? The answer is no. That is why medical research is skewed - because the "proof" of a child's reaction is at the discretion of the very body trying to disprove reactions - medicine.

    Can you see why people get tired of defending their position? Mothers can't collate credible research papers that span thousands of children, mothers don't have access to the funding that makes this research possible. Parents aren't believed when we tell our doctors our child has changed. And that is irrefutable fact.

  7. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to BornToBe For This Useful Post:

    Azurial  (26-11-2011),Bubbles10  (26-11-2011),chameleon  (26-11-2011),northern  (07-06-2012),peelnseal  (26-11-2011)

  8. #26
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    forget the research articles and look at the statistics.. I think it was the ACT who recently boasted that they have the highest immunisation rates but when you look at the stats they also have the highest number of cases of whooping cough in the country as well. In fact country wide since introducing the lets vaccinate everyone who comes in contact with a baby with the whooping cough vaccine the rates of wc have increased tenfold...a work colleagues sister and nephew now have wc although they were both fully immunised. Another friends fully immunised children now have chicken pox. I am anti- vax but also believe people have to right to choose what is best for them. Most people who choose not to vaccinate are not ignorant..they research it first and make a decision based on facts not one based on fear and monetary gain. I am also one who does not believe everything their GP says..question everything as you are the one who has to live with the consequences.

    There was a study recently down in germany regarding the health of unvaccinated verses vaccinated children and the unvaccinated had a huge lower number of things such as allergies, autism, asthmas, ear infections just to name a few. I also have friends who both have unvaccinated and vaccinated children and I see the huge difference in their health as well.

    We also need to be aware of who publishes a lot of the research out there. Is a article favouring vaccine which has been sponsered by the drug company who makes it really a true account of the vaccine. Also with all drugs not just vaccines the manufacturer gets multiple reviews and testing done..nine our of ten can come back bad and one may come back in favour..guess which one gets published.

    Most drugs before getting released need to be double blind placebo tested before being released in to the market...they cant drug test on a child so the testing in being done as injected into your childs arms and legs and most side effects injuries get ruled off as coincidences and never reported.

    As for MMR and vaccine I know a child who was developing 100% normal and had started to talk and do every milestone at the right age until he had an mmr shot and immediately changed into a completely different child...so it does happen. Of course the doctors wrote it off as a coincedence.

    The only thing I really hate about the vac debate is that I for one would never tell another human being not to vaccinate their child but everyone seems to think they have the right to shoot down my views..that is why I generally dont say anything.

    Liney

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  10. #27
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    BornToBe, I'm not sure that you would like a hug from me but here's one anyway

    I want to tread very gently here as we're discussing your personal experience. For that reason I'm not going to quote studies but if you would like to see where the info comes from I'm more than happy to.

    There is growing evidence that the onset of ASD can be 'regressive' in it's presentation. A child who previously appears to be developing well can suddenly lose speech, toileting skills etc. As this regression typically presents around the 1 year mark, many believed there was a causal link to the MMR and the regression. As it stands that causal link has been investigated time and time again and the evidence is unequivocal, the MMR does not 'trigger' autism.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to samsausage For This Useful Post:

    Atropos  (07-06-2012)

  12. #28
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    Wow Liney, some big statements there - anything to back it up?

  13. #29
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    The biggest problem I have is there has never been or will be a scientific study on the long term health effects on giving babies the nearly 30 vaccines in 18 months , to do this you would need to have thousands of participants, half not vaxxed and follow them for over 20 years? I think it's great these childhood diseases ( except for pertussis) have all declined but the facts are in the last 20 odd years asthma, ADHD , add, allergies, autisim, leukemia and more have increased, some by astounding numbers, I'm not saying vaccines " cause" these problems , but you have to wonder that they could possibly be a trigger in some kids? I am by no means anti vax , I just prefer my child to be on a schedule, supervised by his GP, tailored to his needs

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  15. #30
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    I have some good links to studies done on the long term effects of vaccines, you'll have to bear with me, I need to access my old laptop. In the meantime this; http://http://www.who.int/bulletin/v.../07-040089/en/ from the WHO is a look at vaccines from a global health perspective.


 

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