Vaccine Debate Thread

**samsausage** · 26-11-2011 14:29

Peelnseal - what about a 7 year study involving over half a million children which showed no increase in autism in the vaccinated population? How does that not refute the idea that MMR does not trigger autism? I've linked it in earlier posts.

As for the question of herd immunity, my fear is that we will have to get to that point where it drops to levels where VPDs really start making a comeback, it's a shame but I think we've got to the point where VPDs are a nebulous concept rather than harsh reality, people don't perceive them as a threat due to their low incidence.

**peelnseal** · 26-11-2011 14:37

Originally Posted by samsausage

Peelnseal - what about a 7 year study involving over half a million children which showed no increase in autism in the vaccinated population? How does that not refute the idea that MMR does not trigger autism? I've linked it in earlier posts.

I believe the parents.

As for the question of herd immunity, my fear is that we will have to get to that point where it drops to levels where VPDs really start making a comeback, it's a shame but I think we've got to the point where VPDs are a nebulous concept rather than harsh reality, people don't perceive them as a threat due to their low incidence.

If you believe the vaccines work then whats the problem?

AM · 26-11-2011 14:41

As the jury is out (well to me anyhow) with regard to vaccines I prefer to err on the side of caution and 'don't fix what ain't broken' and as such I am an extremely selective vaxxer, ie I'll only do it when/if there is a life threatening outbreak, as is currently happening in northland Nz, Meningococcal C.

**samsausage** · 26-11-2011 14:43

If you believe the vaccines work then whats the problem?

Because no vaccine is 100% effective.

AM · 26-11-2011 14:46

Liney unfortunately the german 'study' you refer to was nothing other than an online survey... so not really credible.

Who votes samsausage and missie mack get a motel room together to debate this?

Luv ya both...

**Girl X** · 26-11-2011 14:48

There's one thing that I don't understand about someone's reasoning for not vaccinating, which is that to me there seems to be a logic gap by thinking that a statistically unproven link between MMR and autism (for example, as it is being discussed above), outweighs a risk of a child catching measles, mumps, or rubella.

For example, peelnseal, you say that you believe parents who say that their children contracted autism from the jab. Do you believe that the numbers of parents who believe their children contracted autism from the MMR exceed the numbers of children contracting measles, mumps, and rubella each year?

I don't believe there is a link between the MMR and autism (and this is something I have studied as part of my degree, and also through working with autistic children for a time). However, IF I believed that in some cases there was a link, but that those cases were so rare as to not be able to be measured over a large scale study, then I would still vaccinate as the risk of catching measles, etc. was greater than the chance (if I believed in one) of autism.

Is it because people don't see it that way? Or that people think autism is more 'serious' than measles, mumps, or rubella?

I'm not trying to upset anyone. I just don't follow the logic, that's all.

AM · 26-11-2011 14:50

I definitely see autism as WAY more serious than a disease, it affects you for your whole life usually, most diseases are of limited duration and severity unlike autism.

**samsausage** · 26-11-2011 14:55

The German study pp's have referred to is the KiGGS study - found here;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3057555/

Directly quoted from the study:

Conclusion
The prevalence of allergic diseases and non-specific infections in children and adolescents was not found to depend on vaccination status.

Hardly the smoking gun the anti-vax movement is claiming. Its a perfect example of how data can be cherry picked and manipulated to serve an agenda.

**samsausage** · 26-11-2011 15:01

Who votes samsausage and missie mack get a motel room together to debate this?

Luv ya both...

Hell yeah, come on missie, the caprioskas are on me girl

**peelnseal** · 26-11-2011 15:06

Originally Posted by Girl X

There's one thing that I don't understand about someone's reasoning for not vaccinating, which is that to me there seems to be a logic gap by thinking that a statistically unproven link between MMR and autism (for example, as it is being discussed above), outweighs a risk of a child catching measles, mumps, or rubella.

For example, peelnseal, you say that you believe parents who say that their children contracted autism from the jab. Do you believe that the numbers of parents who believe their children contracted autism from the MMR exceed the numbers of children contracting measles, mumps, and rubella each year?

I don't believe there is a link between the MMR and autism (and this is something I have studied as part of my degree, and also through working with autistic children for a time). However, IF I believed that in some cases there was a link, but that those cases were so rare as to not be able to be measured over a large scale study, then I would still vaccinate as the risk of catching measles, etc. was greater than the chance (if I believed in one) of autism.

Is it because people don't see it that way? Or that people think autism is more 'serious' than measles, mumps, or rubella?

I'm not trying to upset anyone. I just don't follow the logic, that's all.

Yes i think the risk of Autism far outweighs the risk of catching measles, mumps or rubella.
YES, for me, i think Autism would impact on a toddler/childs childhood, their education, their emotional wellbeing, their adult life and their entire family in far greater ways than measles, mumps or rubella.