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  1. #21
    BH-bigbadbrad's Avatar
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    I have to say that this thread is a lot calmer than I expected and I want to thank everyone for that.

    I can't imagine anything stopping me from wanting to see my kids. It is a situation that would make me fiercely emotional. The down side of that for almost everyone is that when emotions are high, rational thought is very very low. Things are said that are difficult to forgive or even apologise for!

    Add to that mix lawyers who are not interested in best outcomes but billable hours and no one wins but them!!

    Taking the emotion out of the situation is the key. You need to get them to agree to look at the situation in a way that is best for the kids. PERIOD, if you can get there then try to involve a neutral third party (mutual aquaitance you both respect, priest, counsellor etc) that will sit down with you and help you to try and hash out a situation that works for the KIDS!!! and then both of you in that order.

    These situations are never easy but always harder when emotions are high so try and take the emotions (and LAWYERS) out of it for the best chance of good outcomes IMO

    Best of luck to all
    BBB

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    Benji  (12-10-2011)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FullTimeDada View Post
    Hi Benji,
    Well, hasn't this subject taken off.. its very raw to me but my posts were about caring and love and looking after our children responsibly and now were locking up parents...and I hear (Da Judge, Lawyer) has entered the room..
    I say we treat this subject far too legally and I would keep the lawyers and courts out of all of it except, were the child is put in danger..far to often we here of terrible outcomes were parents are driven to extremes caused by a courts ruling...but parents should be made to be responsible (going legal) get them to sign a contract of care and responsibility for their children ? (I thought I had in my Head or heart) when my daughter was born , but when relationships fail, seems we (pardon the pun) throw baby out with the bathwater and conveniently forget and deny our responsibilities in all sorts of ways.. being upset, disappointed, angry even with a partner, has nothing to do with the rights of the child that they took on as their shared responsibility... this is what should be enforced and supported by the state at all costs, as we'll be a better society for it.. like don't by a ticket , don't ride the train..
    Locking parents up forget it .. All the best FTD
    Thanks FTD, it's certainly a complex issue so there's never likely to be a simple solution. The family court has been a fear of mine for years so I'm so thankful that everything is running relatively smoothly for my blended family for some time now.

    I agree with you, forget locking up parents. Jails are already full and need to be reserved to keep us safe from danger.

    I do think there needs to be better ways to deal with blended families as they are only likely to increase. More support for single parents doing it on their own, more help with counselling after separation, and also some way to put a stop to parental alienation.

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    Crazyfamily  (12-10-2011),Lovemyfam  (12-10-2011)

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    [QUOTE=Benji;6124907

    I do think there needs to be better ways to deal with blended families as they are only likely to increase. More support for single parents doing it on their own, more help with counselling after separation, and also some way to put a stop to parental alienation.[/QUOTE]

    Yes Benji that's so right. More couples are splitting so the resources need to be there to make sure the children are not being used as pawns. I didn't grow up with a father, so when DP and I split it was essential to me that we put DS in front of our own emotions at all times. But I can see how ex couples get so angry that they start to do anything that hurts the other. It's never good, and maybe mediation and counselling to all couples would be a good idea. They forced me to apply for child support, so surely they could say that all couples have to have a certain amount of mediated discussions. Who knows, that's probably a bit utopian.

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    Benji  (12-10-2011)

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    Quote Originally Posted by wondergirl76 View Post
    Non custodial parents should be able to call CSA and get the address? How does CSA determine whether it's a safety issue, or is that up to the person on the end of the line to decide? Where does a persons right to privacy come in to play? That is a horrifying suggestion on all counts, and thankfully not one that will ever happen. And no. I don't think parents should be jailed for not paying child support. I don't think of jail as a viable option for healthy parenting.

    Btw the reason DAL is much better at words is.......
    I am sorry I think I upset you was not my intention.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigbadbrad View Post
    I have to say that this thread is a lot calmer than I expected and I want to thank everyone for that.

    I can't imagine anything stopping me from wanting to see my kids. It is a situation that would make me fiercely emotional. The down side of that for almost everyone is that when emotions are high, rational thought is very very low. Things are said that are difficult to forgive or even apologise for!

    Add to that mix lawyers who are not interested in best outcomes but billable hours and no one wins but them!!

    Taking the emotion out of the situation is the key. You need to get them to agree to look at the situation in a way that is best for the kids. PERIOD, if you can get there then try to involve a neutral third party (mutual aquaitance you both respect, priest, counsellor etc) that will sit down with you and help you to try and hash out a situation that works for the KIDS!!! and then both of you in that order.

    These situations are never easy but always harder when emotions are high so try and take the emotions (and LAWYERS) out of it for the best chance of good outcomes IMO

    Best of luck to all
    BBB
    Lawyers I think make things more difficult in some situations
    Last edited by Lovemyfam; 12-10-2011 at 13:45.

  8. #25
    DaddyLarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crazyfamily View Post
    never known of anyone to go to jail for not paying child support. most people that dont pay DO get away with it. But no, neither should go to jail. the system should be fairer and also include parents who dont want to see their kids being made responsible also. if the parent raising the child must give access then they should make it so the other parent must see the child (in cases where parents dont bother). here it is all unfair. i recieve child support from 2 people and actually think that one doesnt even come close to enough and the other is more than is needed. I dont think there is a solution that will suit everyone and it is to much effort to do things individually.
    I don't have personal knowledge of any instance that someone has been imprisoned, either. But the system does allow for it.

    I very much doubt that most would get away with it. The only way it can happen is if either the paying parent reports no income - which unquestionably occurs, but I doubt it would be a majority of cases - or if the recipient parent chooses not to enforce the debt.

    Of course, I'm referring to parents who refuse to pay the support that the law demands. There is a difference between refusing to pay and a system that sets an unrealistic level of support.

    It is impossible to compel someone to see their children - nor is it in any way desirable.

  9. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    Thay have (had?) that system in the US - parents who rightfully accused the other of s3xual and other abuse lost their children due to "parental alienation"... horrifying, unimaginable consequences could arrise. Often a mother OR father will actually 'kidnap' their child because the other parent has been abusive

    It's a very difficult situation, and I know my ex accused me of "taking his son" when he'd deliberately not want to see him and then play the victim. It's all very he-said/she-said but I don't want to see children going to live full-time with an abusive parent as happened in the States.
    Nor do I. However, I also don't think that the remote chance of this happening should lead us to retaining a system where, in practice, there is essentially no obstacle to a spiteful custodial parent destroying the relationship between their child and the other parent.

    The system is, by its very nature, at the mercy of imperfect participants that are often at their very worst. While I agree that there should be support and inducements, they should also be matched with sanctions in the event that a parent consistently refuses to put the needs of their child ahead of their own agenda. Whether prison should be one possible sanction in extreme cases is obviously debatable, but whatever it is, it should be meaningful and a genuine deterrent.

    No one want to put children with abusive caregivers. But I would contend it is also abusive for a parent to deliberately engineer estrangement between their child and a loving, responsible, capable non-custodial parent. Such a parent is also not fit to enjoy the privilege of raising a child.

    As is usually the case, the ideal is to find a decent balance. At the moment, there are a few glaring disparities - affecting ALL parties - that need to be corrected.

  10. #27
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    I do agree it is emotional abuse to not allow a child to have a relationship with their other parent - just as I believe it's emotional abuse to simply take off and never speak to your child again because you're too busy/lazy/selfish. I'm sure many children believe there is something wrong with them because their parent has simply taken off

    The thing I do like about the system as it stands is that parents don't have rights - children have the rights. I think it needs to stay that way and be published more often. I hear so many people say "I have a right to X"... well, no, your child has a right to X. If we all had that way of thinking, it would be much easier to solve some issues with child support and parental alienation.

    At the moment my son hasn't seen his father in over a month (his father's choice due to social events). While it upsets me, the real victim in this is my DS. DS doesn't understand that "dad had to attend some functions" - he sees it as "what have I done to make daddy go away?". I'd never want that for him so I don't understand why a parent would not allow a child to see their other parent if that parent is fit and unlikely to harm the child.

    I don't think it's always a case of mother = custodial parent taking child away. I can think of one bubhubber who happens to be male and has custody of his children, and rightfully so I believe. His ex is a bit off the rails at times so I wouldn't blame him if he said no visitation until [whatever]. I miss him around these boards *sigh*.

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    I should add: if my ex was abusive in any way, be it s3xually, physically, etc I have no doubt in my mind I would skip town with DS. I would do anything to protect DS and if I was threatened with jail I would kick, scream, threaten, do whatever I could for my son. I know this is the case for a lot of parents trying to escape their abusive partners/ex partners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaddyLarge View Post
    I would assume that the point is that in the event that a non-custodial parent is delinquent in their child support obligations, there are (as there should be) a range of enforcement measures that are commonly used - garnishing salary, withholding tax returns, seizure of personal property etc. Moreover, aside from the costs of notifying the CSA of the delinquency the action to recover is funded by the state. The act also contains provisions for delinquent non-custodial parents to fact actual penalties (including prison terms) for repeatedly failing to comply with support orders. Again, any action that results is wholly funded by the state.
    granted it was a number of years ago, but my SF was a serial offender for not paying his CS. He would get letters from CSA, agree to start paying but never did. He never lodged a tax return for about a decade. On top of that, bc she was getting CS on paper, CL was docking her pay each fortnight, but then he wasn't paying and it would take a while for CL to fix it. So she would be actually out of pocket most fortnights. She begged for about 3 years before they finally ganished his wages, and once that happened he threw his job in and did cash work.

    So when they won't lodge a tax return, they have no pay to ganish from, or they lie about what they are earning, often very little is done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovemyfam View Post
    I think CS paying parents should be able to call CSA (as long as not a safety issue) and get the number and address of where the child is living, I am sure they have the address etc so they can get the check.
    While I agree in most circumstances it's a father's right to see his child, and that it IS damaging to the child to not see their father, I can't believe you could be serious. CSA isn't the authority on whether a father is a sexual/DV perpetrator and they have no right based on that to give out details. I have had lots of experience with male perpetrators of violence both personally and professionally and they are fantastic at moderating their behaviour and acting the victim to get what they want, they are manipulators. CSA is business trained, they are basically just the financial middle man. The are not social workers or psychologists and not qualified nor have the correct information to be making a call like that.
    Last edited by delirium; 12-10-2011 at 15:47.

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  14. #30
    DaddyLarge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    granted it was a number of years ago, but my SF was a serial offender for not paying his CS. He would get letters from CSA, agree to start paying but never did. He never lodged a tax return for about a decade. On top of that, bc she was getting CS on paper, CL was docking her pay each fortnight, but then he wasn't paying and it would take a while for CL to fix it. So she would be actually out of pocket most fortnights. She begged for about 3 years before they finally ganished his wages, and once that happened he threw his job in and did cash work.

    So when they won't lodge a tax return, they have no pay to ganish from, or they lie about what they are earning, often very little is done.
    Oh, no question. The fatal flaw in the CSA system is that it depends on income being reported SOMEWHERE. I certainly don't suggest that everything is all peachy from the other end - far from it.

    But when it comes to enforcement, there IS a disparity here. On one hand, it is funded by the agency and evading it means facing actual prosecution. On the other, enforcement must be self-funded and has essentially no practical deterrent.


 

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