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  1. #271
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    Vacuoles were named because when they were first seen they looked like empty regions in a cell. They're not actually empty, but appear to be a place where cells store things which dissolve in water. Large vacuoles are a normal feature of plant cells, but are not so commonly associated with animal cells.

    Vacuoles in sperm are an indicator of poor(er) quality. A single small vacuole is probably OK.
    Supposedly selecting sperm without vacuoles gets 55-60% of embys to blastocyst, while having large or numerous sperm vacuoles only gets 0-5% to blast. http://www.ivfnewsdirect.com/?p=144

    Now for my personal interpretation of the info. I suspect a sperm that's accumulating damage might try protecting itself by shoving nasties into a vacuole. Therefore large or more numerous vacuoles is an indicator that the sperm has suffered extensive damage and that the DNA is not likely to have been spared from the attack.

  2. #272
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    Frostysmum - hope you're going well

    Lilybaby - good to hear everything's going well

    Jamison - agreed, I try not to talk about this whole journey as it insulates me from well intentioned but sometimes insensitive (or too sympathetic can be annoying too) comments too. Easier to keep ivf talk to a minimum in the real world I think. Big hugs and whatever decisions you make about going back are the right ones. This is the hardest thing most of us will ever do I think. And has the added bonus of being hard emotionally, physically and financially!

    Thanks for giving me hope everyone! After so many cycles where are embryos are developing slowly, I'd kind of dismissed any chance this cycle, but you're right, there is still a chance.

    Awesome news Loveabug!!

    Star - woohoo that's great news. I cannot believe your sister went shopping, she's a superwoman! Must mean great eggs too! Did you find out how many fertilised? I've been hanging out to hear.

  3. #273
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    Felicita - do you mind if I pick your brain too please?? As someone who has had about a million cycles, and only ever made it to one early blast, we were told egg quality.
    DH has quite high DNA fragmentation (28%ish I think), and to me it sounds like a sperm issue. We have had completely failed cycles or at best low fertilisation rates, and most embryos are a day behind and die off. Again, to me this sounds like a sperm issue. We had one IUI early on from frozen sperm that they noted were not looking good when they thawed. We were with ivfa and had a high resolution microscope selection of sperm where they struggled to find enough good ones to use. When we got to Qld I asked for a Tesa to get around the fragmentation issue but this made no difference, so they focused on me. The last couple of cycles I've had Luvaris, less eggs (for me not for a normal person) and good lining and still 2 fertilised from 19 and were a day behind schedule.
    If they know about a sperm issue and can't find an egg issue, why am I the only one who thinks there could still be a sperm issue?
    Is it because they don't have a high resolution microscope so can't check anyway? It's just frustrating trying to find what the problem could be when I'm the only one being tested.

    Would love to know if you think I'm completely on the wrong track or any suggestions for things to try or more tests to do. I'm very interested in the ha ICSI but not sure QFG have it. I'm tearing my hair out trying to come up with magic formula that will finally let us have a baby.
    Any help would be gratefully appreciated even if it's that you think I'm wrong, would prefer honest opinion over sugarcoating. Thanks so much.

  4. #274
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    Thanks Felicita our resident guru! It is interesting there were so many with vacuoles as DH's DNA fragmentation is in the excellent range < 15%, but he continues to have issues with morphology. I guess this would also interest you Haydos... I spoke to the scientist who said they found 5 sperm which had no vacuoles and had to use another 4 which had <5% which they did not consider 'significant'. As I recall you didn't see any change in fert rates with or without the technology? What's next for you hun?

    Thanks Frosty and Haydos for your support!
    So we got the call this morning to say that 5 had definitely fertilised 2 had not but they were going to check again and 2 apparently didn't like being ICSI'ed much and didn't make it. No update now till monday so I'm just resting up and trying to get this lining to fatten up a bit more

  5. #275
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    TESA doesn't necessarily mean good sperm. Our related donor went through TESA for us, and on those cycles we still couldn't get enough good sperm for ICSI, and they only needed to find an average of 8 sperm per cycle, and they thawed 2 vials on the last attempt and still couldn't get enough.

    I don't know much at all really about PCO and how it affects fertility and egg quality. When we were persevering with the related sperm my FS put me on DHEA in the hopes that it would help get the embryos over the line. (It didn't, and after the first anonymous sperm cycle I was taken off it since it wasn't helping.) But since DHEA is a precursor molecule for oestrogen AND testosterone, and most of the side effects, and possibly also the intended effect, are due to conversion to testosterone it's probably not a good option to use with PCO.

    All of our embies grow a day behind schedule and die off too. Our fert rates have varied from a high of 7/7 (without digital high mag on related sperm) to a low of 2/9 (with digital high mag on related sperm, but only 7 sperm were "good"). I haven't been able to spot a rhyme or reason to our fert rates.
    I think they're focussed on egg issues for you because of the low fert rates. There's something about sperm and egg contributions to development on page 2 of this thread, here: http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/f...90#post5953590 that goes beyond the simplistic "problems up to day 3 are egg issues, problems after that are sperm issues."

    Our FS doesn't see a point to doubling up with HA-ICSI and digital high mag. He thinks one selection technique ought to be sufficient if you're doing sperm selection.

    We did PolScope (polarised light microscopy) on my eggs last cycle to get a different look at them, but the results were appropriate for someone my age. We were looking to see if all the eggs were bad (poor spindle formation). That's all my FS is prepared to do on testing eggs directly. I asked about karyotyping them, or doing CGH on them, but my FS seems to be against destroying eggs for testing, and didn't seem to consider stimming and EPU for diagnostics to be an option either. He's going to diagnose me as dud eggs by having 3 poor cycles with anonymous sperm.
    It's basically harder to look for egg issues because eggs are so precious, and we can't just go around throwing them anywhere we please either.

    I had a bunch of frustrated questions listed here: http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/f...-in-July/page6
    I didn't get them all answered to my satisfaction, but got enough from my FS to know to proceed with our remaining cycles.

    Don't know if any of that helps, Haydos1979. Sorry also for turning many of the points back to my experience and not yours. (I've gone back and deleted many of those references, but I'm guessing it indicates I'm probably due (or overdue) for a vent. gaagh!)

  6. #276
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    Star---5 out of 9 is good. they all make it and you have some to freeze. Are you going to put 2 back on Wednesday?

    Haydos and Felicita---The more cycles I do the more I reckon there's hardly any science in this thing, a lot of it is chance. The only consistent science behind this is whether you start off with good odds or bad odds. If you're unlucky enough to have 2 sets of bad odds (ie. both male and female issues) then you'll be really lucky to strike gold. I work in the field and have referred many women to FS's, before they go I'd think to myself what their odds are, and correctly so, those I thought had good odds, will inevitably get pregnant within 1-3 cycles, majority of them only ever needed one cycle. The rest of us with bad odds, or doubly bad odds, some never achieve their goals before the journey tires them out, some will fight on with sheer determination.

    I agree with Felicita that DHEA is probably a bad idea in PCOS, too much androgen around is also not good for the eggs. I use the DHEA prior to a cycle, and stop it once I start stimming. If you have PCOS you probably shouldn't use it at all.

    Haydos---QFG definitely does the HA-ICSI, someone on the Brisbane thread just had it done, I received some advertising material from them a month ago about it too.

    If you want to throw everything in, have a look at Saizen or human growth hormone. FS's are divided about it's benefit, and because of the cost, a lot of them are against using it because they don't think it offers much. But if you're clutching at straws, you might want to give it a try. There's a resurgence worldwide of using this, it was a vogue about 10-15 years ago, which didn't show any promising results, but recent studies (all small studies) have shown some promising data. I have the papers if you want to read them. I used it on my last cycle but because of my mucked up AF not arriving, I didn't end up using enough dosage, so I think it did diddly squat.

    The only consistency while I analysed my cycles is that I shouldn't use large doses of FSH. Regardless of dosage I consistency spit out the same number of eggs, but the maturity varies depending on dosage, the larger dosages did worse. My fert rate is usually around 50%, but usable embies were 1-2 per cycle consistently no matter how many eggs fertilised. The other thing is I've had 4 labs and 3 FS's handled our eggs, sperms and embies, all turned out the same results.

  7. #277
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    Frosty, haven't quite decided on the 1 vs 2 issue, leaning towards 1. Feels a bit strange to be pinning all my hopes on 1 embie when the majority of my transfers have been doubles. Guess we will see how many are still standing on day 5 but also thinking younger sis's egg quality likely to be better than mine I have also changed jobs recently and coming into contact with a lot of premmie bubs with disabilities which is also playing on my mind...If only I could get a written guarantee of 2 healthy full term bubs then I would take twins in an instant! Hope you are feeling ok although I imagine the bedrest might be getting a bit tedious?

    Felicita, One of the things I greatly appreciate about BH is the fantastic balance of (mostly) informed information sharing and wonderful support. I think many people have greatly benefit from your incredible knowledge and experience but I just wanted to remind you we are also here to support you if you want to vent, rant or just share where you are up to emotionally. Just wanted to send you some
    Loveabug, sending more your way to help those embies burrow in!!!

    Haydos, I agree on the polscope suggestion (if you haven't already had it). In our case it did give us some useful information on spindle integrity and in turn I guess egg quality but then again these days I am also leaning heavily in Frosty's camp and believe there is more luck than 'known' science involved in getting us long terms UTD! Look at our recent success, Frosty, Lily and a few others. It DOES happen and the majority of long termers who get there usually say perseverance was the key

    Hope everyone else is having a good weekend and liberal sprinklings of

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Starf1sh For This Useful Post:

    Loveabug  (14-11-2011)

  9. #278
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    Loveabug - congrats on being PUPO, I have everything crossed that this is your lucky, sticky cycle.


    Starfish - congrats on 5 fertilised embies, that is wonderful news . I hope your lining is looking perfect for your ET, I'm getting so excited for you


    I hope everyone is having a great weekend, take care and

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to lilybaby For This Useful Post:

    Loveabug  (14-11-2011)

  11. #279
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    star - yay for the fertilisation rates!! Grow little ones grow. Grow lining grow. You are on the home stretch now.

    haydos - you hit the nail right on the head. I got so sick of people saying the wrong thing that I just gave up talking to them about it. It never ceased to amaze me how many people told me it was my own fault for placing too much pressure and stress on myself so in the end I decided not to tell them anything at all as comments like that do NOT help. I am sure they think they are saying the right thing but until they have walked in these shoes, how would they know how severe it can be? How many times have you been told to "Just be positive"? That would have to be one of my least fave comments. Yes positivity helps, but it can be hard when you are emotionally drained. Oh and I love the one, "You are thinking about it too much. When you stop thinking about it, it will happen". Really? Can they guarantee me that? Jeez, you can see I am VERY hormonal right now. I am a complete witch when I ovulate. I yell, then cry, then yell some more! My Dad said to me the other day, "You should be used to the hormone fluctuations by now. You have had your period since you were 13". I nearly threw the salad bowl across the table!! My mum gave him a look that could kill so I needed not react!!!Enough about me...how are you doing there?


    Hi to everyone else. Hope you are all well XXX

  12. #280
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    everyone thanks for the sticky thoughts. well i am on the emotional rollercoaster, my niece 10 is being a bully to DD4, so I am extremely frustrated I got so sick of SIL sidestepping the situations so I have now decided to tell the niece that behaviour is not acceptable as I do it to my DD when she is in the wrong grrrrrr Im cramping bloating and a complete mess. hormones running wild I should be locked away. with a sign "Im not fit for human contact" lol

    Me
    hugs to you all


 

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