Feeling like the worst mother in the world...

**Can I?** · 05-09-2006 14:08

I wouldn't call it lying. I think it is teaching them that if they don't respect their belongings and our rules, then they will lose their belongings

If you take the toys and say you are going to throw them away, and then don't throw them away then that is lying. The day will come when they know that you have been lying to them all this time and that you won't actually throw the toys away, and then how will you get them to respect their things? Isn't it easier to just teach how and why we respect our toys in the beginning?

**FourAngelKisses** · 05-09-2006 14:45

Well, it works for me. I've tried teaching them to respect their toys and it doesn't work. Taking them off them does though.

**iamstephyc** · 08-09-2006 10:57

It has been going really well.

they have earned back a toy each, and are keeping on top of the mess. I'm so proud of myself for sticking to it.

Can I? - I need to say here, that I understand that they are only 4 and 5, but I feel that if they don't learn now, to look after their things, then it will be harder for them to lear later. And I do give them directions. It's when I say to them, "put your My Little Pony's on the shelf" and they don't do it, and haven't done it an hour later, that it becomes a problem. I don't think that I am expecting too much of them. If my 3 year old boy can put his cars on the shelf when he's asked, then they girls shold be able to do it too.

**FourAngelKisses** · 08-09-2006 10:59

Originally Posted by iamstephyc

Can I? - I need to say here, that I understand that they are only 4 and 5, but I feel that if they don't learn now, to look after their things, then it will be harder for them to lear later.

Totally agree there, it's never too young for them to learn. Glad to hear it's all going well, thanks for the update!!

**MrsMiggins** · 08-09-2006 11:10

No, it's not too harsh, but I do know exactly how your daughters feel. I was terrible at cleaning my room when I was a kid. And I mean terrible! It drove my mum crazy! And we had more than a few stand-down arguments about it. My mum used to try all sorts of punishments and rewards to try to get me to keep my room clean - all to no avail. I'm telling you now, your daughters just don't see what the big deal is about keeping things tidy, so they don't see the point in cleaning things up!

I am pretty good at keeping things in order now (despite the world's laziest, messy husband!!) and I was trying to think why that is.

When I lived on my own, my house was always immaculate. Two reasons for this - Firstly I know how much I despise cleaning, so I just never let it get to a state where I knew I was going to hate to have to clean it. This point is not going to be much help to your daughters at their age - they won't understand this until they're older.

But secondly (and this will help!) I actually had pride in something that was my own. Yes, I did consider my bedroom my own when I was a kid, but I don't think you really see it that way when you're young. What may help is to really make your daughters think that this space is their own. Let them help paint the walls, or make something for their room. Let the rearrange it however they want - whatever helps. Let them decide where it is their toys should go. Then make sure they know they need to put them back wherever it is they have decided they belong once they're done.

**Lila** · 08-09-2006 11:16

my dd has the same problem, she can�t keep her room tidy.
my ds can- no probs.
with dd i have to tell her step by step. i say "first you pick up all books, then this and then that." once she gets instructions it works, i think she is just overwhelmed by the whole thing....(mess

)

maybe your girls are the same...

hope that helps

**babyboo** · 08-09-2006 12:41

In my opinion, i totally agree with taking the toys away and them being earnt back.

As for lying to them, i dont think they are being lied to. I think they are being taught to respect their belongings and the rules.

I also think that doing this with the toys is also based on age appropriate discipline - and i think that at the age of 3 (my dd is 3), one of the only things you can do to get a child of this age to listen (pay attention) is to take the toy until the behavior improves or do as they are told.

IMO - i must say that if my daughter wasnt tidying her own room 'completely' by the age of 11, there would be some serious problems in my house

She has to tidy her toys at the end of the day - i do help her, to get it started, but she is normally pretty good and will do it.

So... i dont think your discipline is to harsh at all.....i say Well Done for standing your ground - it can be so hard sometimes with these little ones with huge attitudes (especially at this age)

**Can I?** · 08-09-2006 13:43

They go into their room to clean it because it is a disgusting mess, and somehow it ends up worse!

I gave them a time frame of an hour to clean up their room and told them if they didn't do it, I would be putting all their toys away.

I know I've blabbed on for a while (and thanks for sticking with me if you have

) but my question is this:
Is this too harsh? Am I going too far?

Sorry if you took offence to my post, I never intended it that way. What I have quoted above is what you wrote in your OP and what I was replying to. It seemed like you just sent them into their room which was in a big mess, and expected them to clean it, and when they didn't you took their toys away. Then you asked for opinions. So I gave mine.

If you choose to discipline your children by taking their toys away and then making them earn them back, then that it fine, it is your choice. If it works for you then so be it. It is fair if you explain how it works to your kids and they know the consequences of their actions. Whether or not it is necessary or appropriate is a matter of opinion and will vary from person to person.

I will stick by my comment about lying to your children. If you tell them that you have thrown their toys away and haven't done it, then it is lying (there is no arguing with that), and sets a really bad example for the kids.

IMO - i must say that if my daughter wasnt tidying her own room 'completely' by the age of 11, there would be some serious problems in my house

Having a messy bedroom is not a serious problem. It never will be. Your kids wagging school or taking drugs are serious problems. Your kids being sick is a serious problem. Failing at school, having a bad attitude, being disrespectful....serious problems. My 11 year old may not be so good at cleaning, but he is great in most other areas. I guess its all about priorities when it comes to discipline. Tidy bedrooms are just not even on our radar.

**Grizabella** · 08-09-2006 13:55

I do beleive that teaching your children to live in a clean tidy environment is an important thing - and start as early as possible (ie when you know they can understand it) At 5 yrs old I used to clean my room. I was also helping with the dishes, dusting and vacuuming too. I enjoyed it at the time - it made me feel like I was helping. I wasn't a slave I was just taught early on to respect our home.

I think being 11 and not being able to clean your room is a problem. Understandably at 11 it will get messy, but an 11 yr old needs to learn to look after their belongings properly and be able to tidy it up. A bedroom is a child's own personal space, if they cannot learn to look after it, what are they going to be like when they get older and have their own house? If they can't look after a small area in a bedroom, what state would their own house be?

Keeping bedrooms and houses tidy is the first step to good hygeine and standard of living. It is also a way to teach children to have respect, for themselves, their parents, and their things.

**Can I?** · 08-09-2006 14:10

Fair enough. I never said that my son did not know how to clean, and I certainly never said that our home is unhygenic. All I said was that I don't leave my son to totally clean his own room when it is in a very messy state. He shares his room with one of his younger brothers, and they all play in there, so all the mess is not his. Once it is a huge mess, I help them all to pitch in and clean it.

My son is also expected to help around the house. He dries dishes, picks up his room, makes his bed, feeds the cat, helps with cooking, sets the table, puts out the garbage etc. He will be able to look after himself just fine. My son also knows that if he doesn't look after his things then they will get broken or lost, because I have allowed this to happen in the past. He is very careful with the things that are important to him, because he understands the result if he is not. That is what happens in the real world after all.