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  1. #261
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    Hi Ladies

    Well a BFN for us this month. I knew it was all over last week had a feeling AF was on her way and showed up on saturday We are having a rest this month and going to use our last frosty next time round. Been thinking this month we might swap drs so that will give us something pro active to do.

    Hope everyone is going well

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    MGC Bertie  (10-07-2013)

  3. #262
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    Twosouls....I'm so sorry. I was so hoping that your first donor sperm one was going to be a hit!! Maybe it's that other one that's still sleeping. Mmmm.... are you thinking of changing clinics too, or just FS? You still have two more goes with that sperm donor, don't you? I want to have the three goes with the sperm donor, before making a new plan (probably move to egg and sperm donors, because of my age). This cycle is our second go, so hoping it will be more successful. However DH is already a little tired/depressed about doing IVF so many times, and it costing so much money, that he already thinks next time we should move to egg donation, to increase success rate. I'm trying not to think about that yet, but just concentrate and hope that this one works.

    AFM.... the jabbings this cycle have been fine, especially the Orgalutran, which I haven't had before. The nurse had initially freaked me out, saying that they would hurt heaps more than all the other types of injections I've had in previous cycles, and I better ice the area beforehand. I have never used ice for any injections, as I really don't like the idea of cold ice on my stomach - strange how I'm weird about that, more than an injection!! First Orgalutran injections - no ice, didn't feel a thing. I queried DH if he'd done it right, and checked the syringe, but yes, it's empty. I even asked him, maybe it just dribbled down my stomach!! Felt nothing, until about 2 minutes later, intense itching sensation - I resisted itching, but still it turned into a big pinkish welt the size of my palm, and continued being itchy for about 10-15 minutes, before subsiding. Last night's one the same, but not as itchy. But all in all, slightly annoyed that the nurse said it would hurt heaps, when it didn't hurt at all, not even a pin prick. Perhaps other people are different and it does hurt???

    First scan is on Friday morning. Kind of weird, because I haven't felt anything so far this cycle. I keep thinking back to my previous cycles, and I'm sure I felt twinges, bloating, emotional etc by this stage, but maybe I'm confused!! Anyhow, I guess I'll find out on Friday :-))
    Last edited by MGC Bertie; 10-07-2013 at 12:14.

  4. #263
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    I was hoping so too!! Oh we'll. We are just swapping drs, staying with ivfa. I find the dr we have doesn't explain anything, shoves us out as quick as he can and we just feel like a number to him. The nurses are fully supporting me in swapping and have given suggestions of other drs we might like. I think they must understand the problems I have, maybe they see it from him as we'll. You see prof isslingsworth? Sorry I'm not sure of his name. What's he like?
    We have 2 more goes with this donor. I was going to ring Kirsty and see if there have been any successful pregnancies with him yet.

    So your considering donor eggs? I hope it doesn't come to that. Surely we have all been through enough????

    Have they said anything about embroy donation?

  5. #264
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    Twosouls.... Yes, I see Prof Illingworth. He Scottish and really lovely and very experienced, which sort of was the reason I chose him. But... there's a but with every FS I've seen over the past 18 months (I've seen 5 FSs and unfortunately they all have their pros and cons). He's especially good with listening to all my suggestions of things to try and explaining which of them he thinks would be good to do and which not, however, at times I feel that he waits for me to come up with suggestions, rather than I paying the big bucks for him to come up with things. That hasn't really worried me, as I'm an organised person, and always make a big list of questions and things I've researched, so I just go through that, and he's very patient to explain.

    I brought up at our last consultation with him about donor eggs or donor embryos, but IVFA doesn't have these - you have to bring your own donor with you (not as easy as that!) He basically said it's because donor eggs/embryos aren't easily obtained like donor sperm. I asked about giving it a go with my 38 year old sister, who though old, has always been in much better health than me, and he was happy to try that, and when I pushed him, he said we wouldn't have to wait the 6 months waiting period normally for donors, so long as we signed a waiver.

    We'll do two more cycles with my eggs, then will make a new decision - whether it's to try with my sister's 38 year old eggs or go straight into looking for young unknown eggs (I know of a website in Australia that has success, as well as people going to SA and USA, so lots of options to explore).

  6. #265
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    Update.... Went this morning BT and ultrasound - went really well. Well, certainly much better than last cycle, so I'm quite happy. I have total of 9 follicles - 5x12, 14, 16, 18, 20 and FS rang to say hormones have gone from 500 (on Mon) to 3000 (today), which he's happy about. Nurse said to expect the top follicles to be lost, and will go for the bunch of 5x12, which I could tell myself (!! lol). Will have another BT + scan on Monday, before deciding if EPU will be Wed or Fri. If they grow normally, then the bunch of 5x12, would be size 18 (this is the lowest limit for triggering? but then could catch some of the bigger ones), or wait two more days, then they'd be size 22 (wouldn't that be almost at the upper limit? and the others would definitely be lost). Oh well, just have to wait and see what they look like on Monday, but otherwise I'm very happy with that :-))

    The only thing that didn't go well, is that, even though I reminded the nurse on Monday that I would need more meds today, and I even watched her write it down on a post-it-note, you guessed it, there were no meds there!! So after the BT and scan, I had to do an extra 2 hours round trip to go to the main clinic to get them. This same thing had happened also in a previous cycle, and even with me reminding them to order in the meds, I'm still sitting here shaking my head.
    Just as well I am on holidays, and have the time to drive across Sydney :-))

  7. #266
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    Sorry to hear about the BFN, Twosouls. Hopefully next cycle works out.

    MGC, glad to hear that your ultrasound went OK.

    Sorry I have been MIA. I am just trying to occupy my time with work. I met and played with a baby on the way out of a business meeting -- colleague brought him after childcare. It is a bitter sweet feeling. Finally, after nearly 4 months, we will see the FS this week. Please give us hope.

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    MGC Bertie  (17-07-2013)

  9. #267
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    Hi ladies,

    How many SA did your DH do before they conclude it as azoo? How long does it take for you to get in an appt with Dr G?

    We went in today. FS made the conclusion about the NOA straight away. The FS was brief, didnt tell me what is wrong with DH until i asked some questions. FS kinds of pushed us to decide what we wanted to do. I already knew the options when it came to NOA and made up my mind long ago but DH was/still is overwhelmed with the bad news. FS didnt even want to order any test for me because she said that it is waste of money if we decide not to move forward, especially we dont have medicare. I already did quite a bit of tests with the GP. In the end, i did insist a blood test for AMH. It is always a good idea to know about my AMH result in case we plan to take time off. It would be very hard for DH to decide. Geez, i tried to be on his shoes and realized that it would also very hard for me to accept. I asked a lot of questions and FS seemed confident that i have no problem. She said that i worried too much. They are plenty of couples who dont have children by choice and are happy. I wish i were one of them. :-( i am about to cry now. DH hasnt said a single word about this since.

    I wonder how this interstate IVF work? Any advice?

    The FS we saw is one of th best in MFI but i suspect that she doesnt perform mTESE. I asked her about the term but was told about the procedure in humn language, ie. taking a sample from testicle and look under microscope.


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  10. #268
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    Hi bbhope,

    I'll reply to you here rather than to your PM, as the info might be useful to others too. No doctor ever used the terms mTese, TESA etc with us either, so I only refer to procedures by the names they were described to us.

    Firstly, my DH had a zero count on a SA. They did another SA, just to make sure it wasn't a mistake. Then an ultrasound, which determined it was non obstructive. The next step was a fine needle aspiration and biopsy, looking for any testicular sperm & of course sending a tissue sample off to a lab (sounds like that's what your FS was talking about). No sperm was found. It was several weeks later, we returned to see the doctor (this was Dr Derek Lok) & he had the biopsy results back. That was when he diagnosed Sertoli cell only. He made it sound as if that was that, and was talking about donor then. He said there is a more invasive procedure but only 5% success rate, and that's all he said abou that.

    A short time later, through seeing another dr for me (I had fibroids), he recommended we see Dr Golovsky as he is actually a urologist & an expert in this area. FSs really are trained as gynaecologists then FSs - they're not urologists. We did have to wait a couple of months to see Dr G, and he wanted some other BTs done that Dr Lok had not done at all. Turns out Dr G is doing work in this area that nobody else in Australia is, and the BTs he ordered were crucial to him deciding if there was any point in doing the microdissection or not. After seeing these tests, and giving DH a quick physical exam, he declared the chance of success in a microdissection to be 50%. So we went ahead with that. Unfortunately he didn't find any, but he found my DH too be a real mystery. There was nothing physically or in any of his BTs that gave any clue as to why he is Sertoli cell only, and Dr G felt there was a good chance there could be a few sperm in there. But alas not. My DH was pretty good about the donor prospect all along. I don't think he ever would've dreamed of imposing no children on us by refusing to consider donor, when it was clearly an option.

    Hope that helps. x

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to peoniesarepretty For This Useful Post:

    bbhope  (17-07-2013)

  12. #269
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    Bbhope... our journey is very similar to Peonies, but it's a little bit different, so I don't mind telling it again. What I will say, is that Peonies and one or two others on BH were critical in me learning what I needed to know about azoospermia, as they'd been through it a year or two earlier than me.

    After TTC without success, my GP sent me for various standard tests, and when they came back normal, suggested DH do a SA. It came back with 1 sperm, yes, just one lonely sperm. Off we went to our first clinic (Next Gen), not knowing the full implications of 1 sperm. The FS at NG was lovely, but kind of indicated that IVF would work. Looking back at that know, I just don't know how she could justify that. 1st cycle we got 1 sperm, 2nd cycle no useable sperm. The FS said, that's the end, you now need donor sperm, and as NG don't do anon donor sperm, off we went.

    At that point I started some serious research, primarily as I needed to find a clinic who had anonymous donor sperm, and didn't find too many did this. IVFA and FF stuck out as the best in Sydney, so I made appointments with both, and that was the best decision that I'd made up to then. At IVFA I went in saying we wanted donor sperm and telling our history. At the end, Prof I said, but there's another option. What? And he told me all about Dr G and his microdissection procedure. I was gobsmacked, as here was a little more hope. Prof I sent me for a barrage of tests that NG never done (like AMH!!) and I made an appointment to see Dr G (3 months wait).

    Off we went to FF, and gobsmacked again, the FS says, there's another option! What? Yes, she works with Dr L, who does a very similar procedure to Dr G (at IVFA). Just don't believe that both my GP and FS at FF never said a thing. Moral to the story - you have to make numerous appointments, do your own research and ask lots of questions. Made an appointment to see Dr L (only 3 week wait).

    Dr L was lovely (but very expensive, without looking up the receipt it was something like $350 for half hour consultation - the most I've ever paid). He was excellent, and explained all three procedures in details (aspirations, biopsies, both of which DH had had at NG, and the mTESE procedure). Very happy with everything he said. Dr L sent DH for loads of tests, again, ones that DH had never had before.

    Dr G was equally lovely. He was very pleased by all the tests that Dr L had ordered, as it meant that he had all the results there for that first appointment. Dr G only ordered one or two additional tests. He gave us a fairly high prognosis, based mainly on the fact that some samples had shown 1 sperm.

    In the meantime, I discovered BH, and particularly found this thread, found Peonies a wealth of information (and one or two others too). Weighing lots of things up, incl IVFA being a big organisation with a big lab, decided on going with Dr G (for DH's mTESE) and Prof I (for my side of things).

    Unfortunately, Dr G hasn't had much success on here recently. He came out of the operation, and was very dejected that he too only found 1 sperm. But for us, it was a turning point, to know that we had done everything possible. Like Peonies DH, my DH has been very good right from the start about using donor sperm, so that has definitely helped. I know he's deeply sad, I think, more because his parents won't have that connection to me, but he's been very supportive every step of the way.

    I can imagine not having Medicare must be an incredible burden on your decision making. The tests that Dr L and Dr G are mostly covered by Medicare, but some even are not. Almost all of the tests can be ordered from a GP, and then you can take the results to MFI FS. If you would like, I can look the names of them up for you? Also, I know you can ring up the path labs, and they will tell you how much each test costs. I did that recently for a BT when they said it wasn't covered by Medicare and would cost alot. In the end it cost about $60, which is nothing in the scheme of IVF things!

    The mTESE / microdissection procedure - opens up the teste, kind of like peeling back layers on an onion, and looks for enlarged tubules. These tubules hold the sperm, so the enlarged ones are an indication of the full ones. There's a couple of YouTube videos that freaked out my DH!! Just google them :-))

    AFM.... EPU went well today - FS collected 7 eggs, of which 5 were mature and could be injected. DH did a sperm sample, but no surprises, nothing useable in there, so they used the anon donor sperm. I particularly quizzed the scientist on this, and she said that they choose the sperm with big heads and moving furiously. I knew that that was the case, but it's always reassuring to hear that they did do that:-) Double checked with the FS and I am going to use both the progesterone pessaries (morning and night), as well as the Prgenyl injections every three days, in order to keep AF at bay. So everything is going really well - I'm a little excited, as the result of having 5 injected with sperm is more than the last 4 cycles put together!!

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    bbhope  (17-07-2013)

  14. #270
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    Thanks MGC and Peonies.

    I couldn't describe in detailed earlier with my phone. Now, I can say a bit more.

    We saw Dr. Jequeir, an andrologist. She is quite old, lovely and very frank. I just said FS for simplicity. Her name is all over the IVF Perth posts. One lady DH did the TESE with her (she isn't sure if it was TESE or mTESE) that's the reason why I chose to go with her in the first place in the case of needing the surgery. So no, she isn't going to do the biospy or needle aspiration. She told us straight out that it is a bad idea given that DH testicular volume is abnormal.

    She told us that bilateral undescended testes always resulted in infertility even they were fixed. It was a knife stabbed into DH's heart for sure because he tried to argue with her that there is a chance of low count. She said that there is no doubt the azoo is the result of that.

    What I don't understand is that why she made up the conclusion about NOA and asked us to move forward with the TESE as a choice so fast. (Again, TESE isn't the language she used but I will ask again just to be sure it is). I was hoping she would try to find out the possibility of missing vas deferen, ordering another SA and any possible BTs before even talking about TESE. OK, there was nothing wrong to mention about TESE but I just felt pushed about making the decision to make an appointment for TESE right there before knowing the test results.

    She ordered BTs for DH, mainly the hormone and genetic related tests (as far as i understand from the names). She only gave the 2nd SA referral under my request. DH isn't the proactive one so he just accepted whatever she decided to do. I am more pushy in this respect. Most of the time I guess he is just trying to avoid the problem. He is now more cooperative than before, though. It was extremely hard to convince him to give the first SA sample. He was also opposing IVF to begin with so I really don't think it will be easy to convince him with the donor sperm (yet to find out if it is even possible for long term visa holder).

    I read it somewhere that Dr. G can run some BTs to decide the success rate of TESE?

    MGC, if you don't mind, could you please send me the list of BTs being done for DH? I can cross check it with what I have for current DH referral. I am always open for 2nd doctor opinion (flying over to sydney to see Dr. G) if I don't get satisfying answers here. Dr. J isn't cheap. $380 for our first consultation. Yes, it would be convenient to have medicare but it is rather uncertain for how long it might take. Life needs to move on and we decided to pull out our house saving for this for now. We aren't exactly young anymore and I know that it is going to be a long process. Next appointment will be booked in 4 weeks time to discuss the test results.

    On a side note, good to hear that FS collected 7 eggs and 5 could be injected.

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    MGC Bertie  (17-07-2013)


 

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