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  1. #11
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    Default Surrogacy - India

    Hi everyone

    Just weighing in on this one. Surrogacy in Ukraine is a little of an unknown quantity for Aust. couples. India is the country Aussies tend to select, as the knowledge of the program across the community is spreading significantly, and as a result of this, a lot of the preconceptions and fears are starting to moderate. We have just come back from india with our baby for 2nd time now in 2 yrs, and I can assure you all, that if you choose the reputable clinics (not the B grade cheap and nasty and unethical ones) you will be surprised how good the service and expertise is. Of course it is not perfect over there, but, in IVF/Surrogacy, there is always going to be the odd negative experience...no different to IVF here, where some people unfortunately have had some ordinary experiences.

    I would approach Ukraine option with some trepidation, as the key point with all of this, as far as I am concerned, is to follow what is known to be a successful program...in Mumbai particularly, the main clinic there, has the score on the board, with hundreds and hundreds of Australians on their program.

    And finally, the exploitation nonsense...it is running it's race a little, as it is like a broke nrecord hearing this. If you want to talk about exploitation in India, go and have a look at cotton farmers, where Indian workers get 50c for 5kg of cotton picked, earning $1 per day at best. Call it exploitation if you wish, but, paying $13000 AUD to a surrogate changes their lives and their family's lives forever; so, if it improves their well being dramatically, who cares if you call this exploitation, because it is a throw away line, and means nothing in this context. Exploitation exists in everything we do in the western world...what do you think advertising is all about...it is about exploiting ones potentially weak mind, to influence a buying decision. We need to be practical here, and not be caught up in emotives.

    We met our surrogate 1 week after the birth, and she brought her family (mum and 2 kids) to meet us...she was so happy and just delightful. We provided her some additional $ and a lovely gift. Through an interpreter, she said she is so happy now, being able to live a normal life, and not be subject to the lower socio economic life which is miserable.



    Chrissie

  2. #12
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    How do you solve the problem of the egg donation in India. And isn't hundreds of thousands of successes in India a bit of an exaggeration, and how do you know the Ukraine hasn't had the same kind of success rate. They may not be Australians but..

  3. #13
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    Hi

    One other question can we pursue overseas surrogacy and compensate the surrogate if we live in NSW?

  4. #14
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    Just a quick mention that I heard something on the radio yesterday about it becoming more difficult for ppl to commission an Indian surrogate. Something about the need to prove that the home country (Aus) having granted the child citizenship in advance, which they wont do? Sorry not sure of all the details. Perhaps someone else has more info.

    Thank you for your other perspective on exploitation, Chrissie. Wonderful to read about your experience of surrogacy.

    I think perhaps you were a little harsh in your wording of "exploitation nonsense" though. It is a legitimate concern of those of us thinking about O/S egg donor or surro. Im sure it was one of your concerns when you first started on this path too.

    Fantastic if you have found a clinic that can 100% rule out that it doesnt happen, but many of us are only just dipping our toes in here trying to find out more info, and we are really concerned about it.

    I am part Indian, and know first hand the conditions over there, and have to admit that the idea exploitation does concern me. Esp if there is a possibility that a woman is pushed into being a surrogate by her husband or father - how can clinics completely ensure that doesnt happen in a society where women are still very much second-class citizens. Not to say it doesnt or couldn't happen in somewhere more westernised like the Ukraine as well.

    It is true that there is exploitation in all fields of life, but when we are talking about having a child then it becomes all the more impt that there is no possibility of coercion. Because that child has to live with the scenario that created them.

    That's why its really good to hear another perspective on things - but please be gentle on those of us who haven't had the experience you have.

    And we are entitled to "get caught up in emotives" (as you are to focus on the practical side) as having a child is an emotional business.

    Also, Lucky - You prob know this already and perhaps have investigated it, but I hope you have ruled out the possibility of an egg (chromosomal) issue. Sadly it is a very common (the commonest) cause of m/c in us over-35s, for which surrogacy wouldnt be the answer. Hope that it's not the case for you though.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by anemone View Post
    I think perhaps you were a little harsh in your wording of "exploitation nonsense" though. It is a legitimate concern of those of us thinking about O/S egg donor or surro. Im sure it was one of your concerns when you first started on this path too.

    Fantastic if you have found a clinic that can 100% rule out that it doesnt happen, but many of us are only just dipping our toes in here trying to find out more info, and we are really concerned about it.

    I am part Indian, and know first hand the conditions over there, and have to admit that the idea exploitation does concern me. Esp if there is a possibility that a woman is pushed into being a surrogate by her husband or father - how can clinics completely ensure that doesnt happen in a society where women are still very much second-class citizens. Not to say it doesnt or couldn't happen in somewhere more westernised like the Ukraine as well.

    It is true that there is exploitation in all fields of life, but when we are talking about having a child then it becomes all the more impt that there is no possibility of coercion. Because that child has to live with the scenario that created them.

    That's why its really good to hear another perspective on things - but please be gentle on those of us who haven't had the experience you have.

    And we are entitled to "get caught up in emotives" (as you are to focus on the practical side) as having a child is an emotional business.

    Also, Lucky - You prob know this already and perhaps have investigated it, but I hope you have ruled out the possibility of an egg (chromosomal) issue. Sadly it is a very common (the commonest) cause of m/c in us over-35s, for which surrogacy wouldnt be the answer. Hope that it's not the case for you though.

    I'm part Ukrainian.. I dont know if I would agree that they are Westernised over there.. most of Ukraine is actually VERY poor.. women have a poor standard of life over there.. if they are not married by the age of 18 they are considered "too old" to marry

    I DO agree with everything else you have said though.. I think everyone should be conscious of the possibility of these women being exploited.. after all, they are VERY poor and are definately considered 2nd class in their countries (India/Asia/Ukraine)

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    Hi

    The last thing I would want to do is exploit anyone, so thank you for updating me on the situation on the Ukraine. My grandmothers heritage is Ukrainian so that's what prompted me on thinking this is an option. I believe most surrogates are considered if they have children already, and may be married already. I believe that is the case in India and the Ukraine.

  7. #17
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    Happy - thank you for enlightening me about the Ukraine. Sounds like a tough situation for the women there .

  8. #18
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    Hi guys,

    I'm not up to the surrogacy part yet (still hoping I don't get there), but in my reading on egg donation around the world my eyes were opened a little, so I thought I'd share a slightly different point of view.

    Two things first though. 1. I think in many situations it isn't done through exploitation. It's just that journalists get hung up on that one because it sells better. and 2. I can fully appreciate and applaud all of you who are concerned about exploitation of women and also having this hanging around when telling your birth story to your child. So there's no critisism meant to absolutely anyone. It's just an alternative view.

    All around the world, women are exploited. Especially so in poorer countries. But being put off using overseas surrogacy even if the exploitation is widespread doesn't help - not even a little bit. There is an opportunity cost of not choosing these women to be surrogates.

    Sure, they may be some who are pushed into it by their husbands. But if they don't push them into something legitimate like surrogacy they will go for something less legitimate, like prostitution, or the sale of their own babies.

    Did anyone see the Four Corners show on the sale of children to the cocoa bean farms? How devastated the mother's were when their husbands/brothers sold their children? Incredibly sad. And so widespread in poorer countries. I haven't been able to eat a piece of chocolate since.

    In allowing these women to choose surrogacy as their way out of poverty, it is allowing them to not have to sell their bodies for s3x (and ending up with the most disfiguiring venerial diseases) or their children to the slave trade or plenty of other horrible options for exploitation.

    Isn't that a really lovely story in a not so lovely world? Allowing women to be 'exploited' with dignity? Your choices could mean a lot for these women. It could mean much better choices for them. It's not all doom and gloom.

    We'll never stop exploitation. Gosh I wish we could. But I would be proud to help a women have a better life, even if she was pushed into it by her husband. It is the lesser of the evils. (in fact, not evil at all)

    And I realise that just by saying 'I won't be a part of that' isn't stopping the exploitation. In many ways it's probably making it worse as other 'worse' options will be chosen for these women.

    Again, I'm there's no critisism meant to anyone nor any of your views. Some of us would just rather not think about the horrible alternatives for these women and would prefer to just not get involved. And that's ok. On the infertility train we've got enough heartache to deal with without adding to it. We do what we can and no one can ask more of us than that. This is just an alternative view, and you can agree or not agree with it, there's no judgement there either.

    But think about the women losing their children to the slave trade next time you eat a piece of chocolate... oh wow, was that ever a moving piece on the ABC.

    Best of luck on your journey's however you all get there. I applaud you all for getting this far with your sanity still in tact.

    And Chrissieb - you are a pioneer for all Australian women. I can't tell you how much I admire you and what you've done for us. Thank you. Enjoy your two little ones. You most certainly deserve them!

  9. #19
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    You can talk a lot about the operation, but in Ukraine, the most favorable conditions for the services of a surrogate mother. If you compare prices with USA and conditions in India, Ukraine is the most profitable

  10. #20
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    Hello everyone... I know this thread has been quiet for a while... But can anyone shed some light on egg donation plus surrogacy in Ukraine. We are considering that option after India has banned surrogacy recently.... Any help would be greatly appreciated .... Thanks in advance.

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to Sue77 For This Useful Post:

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