Male privilege.

[Deserama]

Male privilege (like white privilege, heterosexual or able-bodied privilege) operates at a mostly invisible level, which is why many who are accused of sexism (racism, homophobia, ableism) are genuinely confused at the criticism. Yet it is a very real phenomena.

Men do not generally live in fear of rape and murder on the basis of their sex, and that is privilege. Women change everything from their behaviour to their values to their thinking based on this internalised fear.

This I can see.

Men take it for granted that someone else will take care of their domestic responsibilities, leaving them free to pursue a career. Women are socialised from birth to be carers and nurturers of men and children. Males are privileged.

Men take it for granted because women allow it though. Some women like being nurturers too.

Men feel entitled to sex from women, women feel obligated to have sex with men. Male privilege.

Yes I can see this one. Not in my current marriage but my previous one this was certainly the case.

Men can be presented as numerous different 'characters' in cultural works, women are confined by stereotypical roles. Male privilege.

What do you mean by this one?

Women are socialised to be caretakers of men, both physically and emotionally. Women are conditioned to place men's needs above their own, both men and women are conditioned to accept this as a normal state of affairs. Male privilege.

It depends...men are conditioned to be leaders and everybody knows that leaders in say an army regiment put's their regiment first before themselves. My dh is like this at home. We come first...he comes last, he views this as his responsibility. I grew up never wanting to have the 'burnt chop syndrome' so I don't.

[PeppaH]

Men get no special treatment or privlileges where Im living. I get treated the same, paid the same, respected the same. I can do just as much as any guy (just) I dont get looked down apon because Im physically weaker. The men I know can do just as much as a women can and get no special respect for doing so.

Im so sick of the men verus women crap.

[BigRedV]

You can't rally for equal pay in some industries.

It is entirely individually negotiated.

Men are "generally" better negotiators, so their pay would be higher especially with John Howard's "workplace agreements"

When Howard brought in new industrial relations laws, a representative from the teachers' federation came out and we all had to sign over to change our union fees as being direct debited, rather than automatically taken out of our pay which was visible on our payslip as Howard was trying to get rid of the unions which would have been the end of collective bargaining

In my job, YES, I am paid as equal to any male but there is no denying the glass ceiling in the education department.

[Deserama]

You can't rally for equal pay in some industries.

It is entirely individually negotiated.

What we can discuss openly, is the fact this huge gap does exist.. and attempt to change the mindset which is the reason essentially that the gap exists.

Defending and excusing that the gap exists is part of the reason it is still socially acceptable to exist. I feel the "isn't it good enough' silencing technique is even bigger part as to why it silently exists.

Deserama, does arguing that it doesn't exist, in the face of all the evidence that it does exist.. I am unsure of your motivations.. does it make it less uncomfortable, do you reckon? Or do you feel by arguing that it doesn't exist, makes it so , so it's better for women.. because they are actually getting paid equally, the stats where just recorded wrong.. or incomparable etc?

I'm a realist. I want to make sure the facts are straight before I start jumping up and down about something. I'd hate to agree with something, only to find out there was a flaw and then have egg on my face...wouldn't you?

[happyluvy]

Men get no special treatment or privlileges where Im living. I get treated the same, paid the same, respected the same. I can do just as much as any guy (just) I dont get looked down apon because Im physically weaker. The men I know can do just as much as a women can and get no special respect for doing so.

Im so sick of the men verus women crap.

same!
(i was reading thru this thread thinking i was the only one who felt this way but you just worded it perfectly, fanx!)

[PeppaH]

Male privilege (like white privilege, heterosexual or able-bodied privilege) operates at a mostly invisible level, which is why many who are accused of sexism (racism, homophobia, ableism) are genuinely confused at the criticism. Yet it is a very real phenomena.

Men do not generally live in fear of rape and murder on the basis of their sex, and that is privilege. Women change everything from their behaviour to their values to their thinking based on this internalised fear.

Men take it for granted that someone else will take care of their domestic responsibilities, leaving them free to pursue a career. Women are socialised from birth to be carers and nurturers of men and children. Males are privileged.

Men feel entitled to sex from women, women feel obligated to have sex with men. Male privilege.

Men can be presented as numerous different 'characters' in cultural works, women are confined by stereotypical roles. Male privilege.

Women are socialised to be caretakers of men, both physically and emotionally. Women are conditioned to place men's needs above their own, both men and women are conditioned to accept this as a normal state of affairs. Male privilege.

I could name virtually any sphere of life and show that males are invisibly privileged within it.

But fish can't see water.

Wow that kinda sucks that you think that way. No way in hell do ANY of the men I know in my life expect any of that. Men are equal and do their fair share of house work.

As to being afraid of being raped!? I dont know about many other females but I dont walk around in fear someone might try to rape me or murder me for that. Living my life in fear and 'under' a guy is kinda pathetic and if people do this, they need to get a life

[Mrs Nietzsche]

How generous of them not to look down on you for being physically weaker.

I think people perhaps don't understand how the wage gap arises.

It's not like there is one rate of pay for men and another for women.

But women end up being paid less because they ask for pay raises less. Because the pay rises go to the people who can work late. Because it has been demonstrated repeatedly that women work efficiently and leave at 5, men hang around the water cooler and leave at 7 . Because women take time off to have children and dont' catch up. Because women are less reliablebecause they have days off to look after kids/take kids to appts/whatever. Bceause women make phone calls about organising their kids/families lives.

Because women have jobs not careers, and their jobs take second priority to their husband's job, their kid's lives, their family generally. Women are seen as not being as dedicated, so they don't get the pay raise.

And most importantly, women don't get pay raises because they don't think they deserve them. They put up with being mucked around with overtime, maternity leave, etc. They don't go in every 6 months and demand a pay raise. Women are trained to be compliant, especially with their (mostly male) bosses. Women are grateful to have a job, to even get maternity leave, or a day off to look after thier kids. God forbid they ask for a raise!

[PeppaH]

How generous of them not to look down on you for being physically weaker.

I think people perhaps don't understand how the wage gap arises.

It's not like there is one rate of pay for men and another for women.

But women end up being paid less because they ask for pay raises less. Because the pay rises go to the people who can work late. Because it has been demonstrated repeatedly that women work efficiently and leave at 5, men hang around the water cooler and leave at 7 . Because women take time off to have children and dont' catch up. Because women are less reliablebecause they have days off to look after kids/take kids to appts/whatever. Bceause women make phone calls about organising their kids/families lives.

Because women have jobs not careers, and their jobs take second priority to their husband's job, their kid's lives, their family generally. Women are seen as not being as dedicated, so they don't get the pay raise.

So because a man works later, accually ASKS for pay rises, wants to make a career out of a job, doesnt take time off to have children.....They shoudlnt get paid more? See that seems pretty silly because how you put that means a man IS working harder then the female and still shouldnt get paid more???

You think a female shouldnt have to do all those things because she can have children and should still have the privilege of being paid more/the same to a man who does twice as much?

[Phyllis Stein]

Men take it for granted because women allow it though. Some women like being nurturers too.

It's not that some women and men like those roles, it's that we're strongly conditioned to act in those ways regardless of individual preference. Some men might like to be nurturers but can't because it's unmanly or emasculating, etc.

What do you mean by this one?

Culture (movies, music etc) gives us ways to perceive and interpret ourselves and the world around us. Women are given far fewer 'roles' in which to see themselves.

I have to go now but I will try and explain a bit better later.

[Looshkin]

Actually peppaH, 1 in 3 women will be raped or sexually abused in their lifes.

So while I don't "live my life in fear" I am very acutely aware of this fact.