A Question for the Non-Vaxers...

[MummyoftheMuffins]

I don't want to seem harsh, or nasty, that's not why im asking this question. I'm actually just curious, so if i offend any of you in some way im truly sorry i just would like to know...

Why is it that you choose not to vaccinate your children when most of the vaccines are free, or that you can claim back from medicare? I strongly believe in vaccinating all children as its very beneficial for them, not so much now but when they are older!

Do you have problems with enrolling in schools/daycares, i know my daycare won't allow you to enrol unless your childs vaccinations are up-to-date...

Did something happen to make you come to this decision or is it because of your religion?

Help me out here, im just trying to understand, im not being nasty so if you have that impression then you are very wrong...

[Mum&bubs]

I do choose to vax but my friend chooses not to. Why? Because she has 2 children & she says she cant deal with one sick child (as in when her dd gets vax she gets sick)

[MummyoftheMuffins]

Sorry i just thought i'd write another quick post on here,

SORRY MRS MIGGENS!!!! I didn't realize that you had already done a thread on here pretty much about the same thing...

I also, did my research on immunizing/not immunizing after i read the non-vaxxers thread. And i totally respect the oppinons and choices of others. This thread was basically just my query as to why some of you made that choice. I'm not having a dig at any of you because as i just said, I totally respect your decisions!

[MummyoftheMuffins]

In my oppinion, i would prefer a little bit of pain for my DD for maybe a day or two, than for her to die of a preventable disease... But then i haven't had any real problems with DD after needles... Maybe a bit of a temp but thats all... I might have a different oppinion if she were to get VERY sick...

[faery]

hi maddismummy

i'll happily answer your questions!

i never really had much thought about vax except that it seemed like a bit of overkill to give so many (as compared to when i was a kid). then i started studying natural therapies and learning about our bodies ability to heal itself and all of the related ideas about health, healing, nutrition, herbs, spiritual health etc etc. this didn't really challenge what i already thought but it gave me a broader understanding and knowledge to base my opinions on.

then i began working for a chiropractor and had first hand experience with seeing people helped through chiropractic. he had HEAPS of resources about vaccination. he had all the gov't information, the studies that were for and against, the independant research and access to web sites where people could discuss their experiences and post other information (usually from medical databases etc that are not accessable to everyone). he encouraged me to read read read and inform myself about the issue.

and what i read convinced me that the risk of vaccination did not equal the risk of getting the disease. and that injecting chemicals (because the reality is that vaccines are full of chemical ingredients like aluminum and formaldehyde, not to mention mercury {has been taken out of some vax, but not all}) into my child was not something i was prepared to do.

DP is a herbalist, has a med science degree and is studying medicine. he has a great way of taking something extremely complex (how vax "work") and simplifying it. which has made me even surer in my decision to to vaccinate. both of us are confidant in our ability to manage dis-ease and don't see sickness as something to be feared.

neither the cost (of lack of cost), or religion has anything to do with our decision. I don't plan on putting my son into daycare, so it won't be an issue for us. however, we will be getting a concientious objection form, which is needed for schools and daycares and for certain centrelink payments if you choose not to vax. no medical procedure in this country in compulsory so they can't keep you out of schools etc because you do not vaccinate.

we feel that ALL dis-eases are preventable. Not through vax but through good nutrition gained through organic food and not eating junk. drinking clean filtered water. taking supplements when needed. resting when sick. not anti-bacterializing our entire house. basically living as natural a life as possible.

hope that answers your questions. I don't judge people who do vaccinate their kids. they have obviously thought about/researched the issue and decided that vax is the way to keep their kids from getting dis-ease. they have a right to make that decision and i'm not going to argue with them about it. it would be nice however, to not be called a "baby killer" or a "scourge on public health" just for stating my opinion! so thanks for NOT being nasty!

[shed]

I have been doing a lot of reading lately on this subject and have decided to selectively vaccinate. Very selectively.

I never thought I would be a non-vaxxer, it sort of seemed a bit of a tree-hugging hippy thing to do, but after reading quite a bit about the vaccinations I have decided that most of the vaccinations are not necessary for the situations my child will be in.

Funnily enough, similar to faery, my chiropractor discussed this issue with me and he recommended a book so I could decide for myself. It is one of many I have read and it is called "Well Adjusted Babies".

I was uncomfortable with the thought of my brand new baby being welcomed into the world and then being jabbed, so I had already decided against the Vit K (which according to some is not a vaccination, but nevertheless). The Hep B vaccination that is given at birth is not necessary for our situation either. Some bubhub members also provided helpful information which helped me come to this decision. I then had to convince DP who is a very conventional type of person, but he now agrees with my decision after doing his own research.

The readings show some results that I am not comfortable with so I have decided not to take up the offer of the free vaccinations that are offered at birth and we will evaulate each one as the time comes. We will still be eligible for all the allowances after producing a conscientious objection form, so its not really a money issue for us.

I am not totally anti-vaccination. Just selective.

[CarolineF]

Faery

are you saying that people whose kids get these preventable diseases must practise bad hygiene, or follow an inappropriate diet etc? I am not sure I follow your logic on how to prevent your child contracting a communicable disease that can be spread by air or touch. Do all these methods you suggest you follow suddenly make children invinceable to disease?

Its not something I have read in my research.

Do you accept that the reduction in many of these diseases is partly as a result of the benefit incurred to us all by the majority choosing to vax and therefore assisting in the reduction of the spread of such diseases?

I am just curious. I respect people's decisions not to vax so long as spurious claims are not made and people who do decide to vax or not, whichever position you take, are not made to feel as if it will be their fault should their child contract one of these diseases due to bad diet etc.

Not wanting to offend, really, but I just don't follow how it would do the job!!!

[CarolineF]

Just curious again, if you were to go on holiday to a country where there was malaria - would you not take quinine etc based drugs to prevent getting malaria if bitten by an infected mosquito? Nothing can prevent such an occurrence.

The point I am making, not very well cos I am waffling cos I am tired, is that unless you live in a closeted environment with no contact with the outside world, there is actually nothing you can do to prevent contracting certain diseases and personal hygiene and diet and so forth are not going to be an invinceable barrier. Even if your child does not go to daycare, you and your DP will still need to go shopping, see relatives etc - how can all those methods you describe deal with all the variables?

I am really not having a go, , I'm just playing devils advocate. your methods work for you and your child. My view is that in a country with such widespread immigration, ADF constantly being sent overseas etc to possibly infected countries that it is impossible to say these diseases are gone forever and there is no real chance of any of us suffering from an outbreak, or coming into contact with others who have been in contact with them even if they are not showing symptoms.

[faery]

hi Caroline
i'm not offended! and i am NOT saying that kids who get infectious diseases must have poor hygene or poor nutrition. nor am i saying it is anyones fault if a kid gets sick. some kids get sick, some don't. some people try and prevent their kids getting sick through vax and some people try and prevent their kids getting sick through natural therapies.

what I am saying (and this again is what I beleive based on my experience and study) is that the immune system is a really really complex system. no one can claim that they know exactly how it works. I beleive that good hygene, good nutrition and other things (like herbs and supplements) can make that immune system even stronger, and more able to deal with infections as they occur. I know that i cannot stop myself or my child from coming into contact with diseases or infections, and it won't make us invincible. but i don't live in fear of those diseases and know that we are confident in dealing with and sickness that any of us might have.

I'll wade into some controversy here and point out that the majority of the infectious diseases vaxed against actually had the numbers of infected people decrease before the vax was introduced. and that info comes from the governments own statistics. So i don't beleive that my kid is protected because everyone else is. vaxed kids still get the diseases. who can explain that?

as far as other countries are concerned. I have travelled to tons of other places where malaria was rampant. I never took anti-malarials (don't even get me started on the toxic nature of those drugs!!) but i did what i could to prevent infection. avoiding areas where there was a serious outbreak (something even locals would do), wearing long sleeves at dawn and dusk, putting on citronella mossie repellant, sleeping under a mossie net. did i get bites? sure, i got lots, but i didn't get malaria. and I was never vaxed before travelling to any country either and am not riddled with disease!

I guess it comes down to how you view health. Some people see health as the absence of disease. and therefore will do whatever possible to make sure: 1. they don't get that disease by vaxing 2. taking drugs like antibiotics and cough syrups and panadols to make themselves better.

my paradigm of health is completely different, as i would suspect is the case for other people who choose not to vax.

[MummyoftheMuffins]

I understand everyone has their own oppinion, and mine is to vaccinate my child... I didn't read much research on the topic, nor did i follow with everyone elses decision that vaccinating is the right thing to do... I am not a sheep as such...

BUT i do believe that there are pros and cons for both sides of vaccinating and not vaccinating your children... There have been lots of children who have been vaccinated for a certain disease and then end up getting it anyway. But then i think that by vaccinating your child, its not going to prevent the diseases from coming, its going to let your body know what it is so that if you do get it, your body knows how to get rid of it! I do however, disagree with the chicken pox vaccination! I don't find it necessary! My daughter had chicken pox when she was about 8months old, but her cousins cousin (if that makes sense!) had the chicken pox immunisation and got it a week later! So in that case, he still got it, and it was in some ways caused by the needle.

But i have a question again, mainly for faery... But anyone's comments are very welcome. If you choose not to vaccinate your child, and when they go to school and share drinks and food with other children, like they do, What happens if your child gets something like maningacoccal c... and then loses a limb from that, when you can have the vaccination to actually prevent it! I just don't see the point in taking that risk... Like i said earlier, i would preferre my child to be in a little pain for a few days from a needle than to have her die or get incredibly sick from a disease that IS preventable. And i know that some vaccinations don't prevent the disease, they just let your body know what it is so they can fight it, but then some vaccinations do actually prevent them...

I don't want to be narky, i did start this thread because i was curious to know why you make these decisions, and i completely understand those of you who have done the research and understand the pros and cons of doing that, what i hate however, is people that don't do the research and read about it, and make a decision like that when they know nothing about it! It drives me crazy! Some people choose not to vaccinate their child simply because other people in their family do it... they don't weigh up the risks of not vaccinating...

I have read all of your posts though on here and believe that those of you who have done the research, know and trust your decision, and thats good enough for me! Thanks for replying girls!