Adopting after our First Born

[Carmel Jane]

Just wondering if anyone else has considered or gone through the adoption process? We are pregnant now with our first born, but would really like to adopt a child for our second. We don't have fertility problems or anything like that, it mainly comes down to knowing the love and chances we could offer to a child who may never experience it otherwise. Whether it be a child from overseas or Australia, its something we've always wanted to do.

Any feedback would be excellent.

With thanks,

[Rockett]

. We don't have fertility problems or anything like that, it mainly comes down to knowing the love and chances we could offer to a child who may never experience it otherwise.


Hi Carmel
This is totally off topic,but I just wanted to say what a wonderful,caring person you must be to want to do this,even though you are able to have your own children.Good on you!
Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy.:)

[Maghan]

What a noble, altruistic thought. I think that's a fab idea.

I've known of parents who have adopted and then their own have miraculously come along, never the other way round.

Wonderful.

[illawarramumof2boys]

hi and yes i have considered adoption and posted a thread about this some time back. i have 2 beautiful boys and would love to have more children. i don't know how far you have looked into it, but the costs involved /and the travel and length of stay overseas put a stop to us at the moment. if you're in a suitable situation i say go for it. adopting a little chinese girl appears to be the fastest option (if you want to pm me feel free.) but as for adoption and my family, as soon as we are more financial and my boys are a little older we hope to do it.:) .

[Carmel Jane]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for your comments and feedback. I've been looking at this for probably the last 5 years and have read most Govt 'manuals' (for lack of a better word) regarding various country adoption processes and the costs really shocked me at first and its only been the last year where we could consider it financially viable, but I think the rewards at the end of the day will definitely be worth it.

It seems that it is easier to adopt from overseas than it is from Australia, which is crazy. I also can't understand why we don't have an alliance with America, similar cultures, english speaking etc and considering online you can see anywhere up to 2,000 children needing a family, but they will only let Americans, or those living in America to adopt. It costs nothing to adopt their, they even give out payments to those who will!

I think its a shame that money can mean the difference between a child having a home and family or not.

With all the regulations in place, it will be at least two years before we can even go onto a waiting list and meet all the criteria e.g. our biological child being old enough, but I really look forward to it and hope that we can make a difference.

Best wishes to you all and thanks again,

Carmel

[stellaj]

you should try foster care. i am a foster care worker and NO ONE wants these kids (even newborn babies) and yet there are waiting lists to adopt :confused:

[moonblossom]

I have always thought a about becoming a foster mum, but my finances are stretched to the limit now and I could not see it stretching any further. Its a shame, I'm so good with newborns speshally and would make a wonderful foster mum

[Carmel Jane]

Morning All,

The adoption rules must differ from state to state, I'm in WA and we can adopt, so long as our youngest child is at least 1 year older than any child we intend to adopt. Not all countries O/S require you to be married, proof of a relationship/defacto for 5 years is adequate.

Our neighbour is a foster mum so I've definitely considered that, I guess my hesitation is that its not always permanent, which would be a huge toll on the heart, but your definitely right, there are so many kids needing foster care. It is something I'll be looking into aswell when the time is right.

Its great to see conversation on this topic as its sat empty for a while.

Have a great day everyone.

Cheers,

[Tea Lady]

All I can say is :confused: :eek: :(

I did a course in foster caring awhile ago and they said they aren't even taking names on the list in Qld anymore (for oz bubs). My g'parents adopted in the 60s and it only took about 4 months for them to get the baby - and he was their 5th! Makes me sad to think of all the bubs who don't make it into the world and the families that would love to have them:(

[Heids]

Hi Carmel Jane

I just read your post and it bought tears to my eyes.... that is the lovely thing I have ever read on bubhub..... you have a heart of gold and your little bub to be is very lucky to have you and your dh as parents.

Good Luck in whichever direction you talk, as I gather it is quiet hard to adopt these day and like Tea Lady says it is very sad when precious little bubs aren't even given the chance :(

Heaps of Hugs
Heids

[babycrazy]

I think if I was ever going to adopt it would be a little girl from China. I heard a HORRIBLE story - think it was on Oprah about newborn baby girls being left on the street to die (due to one child policy and the need for a son to take care of the parents in old age). This little girl still had her umbilical cord attached and had died of hypothermia. Made me really really cry:( thinking about it - I couldn't stop thinking about it for a long time. Still makes me sad now.
The world definately has a lot of kids needing homes. Good on you for thinking about adoption :p BUT I think it is a good thing that Australia doesn't have any babies available for adoption. It wasn't that long ago that a young single mum would have no choice but to give up her baby. No mother should be separated from her child because "society" says she is too young. I feel for people who can't have children but I still think babies belong with their biological mothers unless there are pretty significant reasons why they need to be taken away (eg. drugs, neglect etc).

[Carmel Jane]

I had a look on a website called the Holt Foundation a while ago, the amount of chinese toddlers was astounding. It looked like alot of them were given up because of things like a cleft palate. It breaks your heart. Its really lovely to hear that there are other people out there who think about things like adoption, as its not often a topic of conversation and most of our friends are stunned that we would even consider doing it. Although one couple are now looking into it which I think is just unreal.

Thanks for your feedback and information. I'm looking into the fostering information now and I'm amazed at the lack of support from the Govt for the people who generously open their homes and arms to these children. I'm lucky, we will always be financially stable but that should never be the divider between those who can and those who can't offer their homes to children that need it. :confused:

[JATS]

My MIL has a younger brother who is adopted. After having MIL, GMIL required a hysterectomy and they wanted 2 kids so they adopted a son...

MIL hates him with a passion. Not because of anything he did either, growing up GMIL was told to make the adopted child feel special, so she did, by telling him of all the children they could have chosen they chose him, whereas they had no choice with MIL, they just had to take what they got when she came along, no refunds!! They called him their 'golden child', their 'chosen child', amoung other nicknames.

Of course MIL was pretty neglected and grew up resenting him and her parents.

My point being, don't treat an adopted child any different to the way you'd treat your own children, sounds obvious enough but some people seem to forget that bit!

Amy

[alicesmum]

what a great thread. i am also seriously considering adoption, most likely from China. Am pregnant at the moment, but if I can convince DH to have a third (big IF) then would look into adoption before bringing any more human beings into the world!

i figure that if we can afford it (which hopefully we will if our business continues to do well) it would be the most charitable act i would probably ever do in my life! the stories of babies girls left abandoned in China and other countries are unspeakably horrible.

i also heard recently that there is a waiting list in Qld for fostering, as there are plenty of willing people. That, and the life-long continuity you get with adopting is why i am more interested in inter-country adoption.

Amy your MIL's story is so sad. I hope that is a rare case! :eek: A psycholigist and Zen Master from the United States who I know has two biological children and one adopted (also from China) all now grown up. He told me recently that he loved his adopted daughter as much as the other two, but that there was no denying the depth of the connection when they are biological children. so, he told me to be aware of the different kind of connection (not love) that you may have with your adopted child. it makes sense i guess. interesting food for thought anyway :)

[lollylou]

Hi guys havn't been i the forums for ages busy bees!
We are currently going through the adoption process & yes it is tough In Victoria you do not have to prove that you are in fertile but just prove that you are not still trying to convceive your own child.
Its a very stressful & taxing time on your whole family there is also a Permanent care program which gives you legal guardianship of child until they reach adulthood this is helped with a payment plan to assist you in costs of kids!!
its not alot but may make the difference in being able to offer a child a home.
Ther are heaps of kids in the system needing homes speak to you local council about permanent care the kids are all ages & there are not enough families that are willing to take them.
Good luck with what you decide.

[onabreak]

I think it is a wonderful thing that people adopt children. I always said that I would adopt if I couldn't have children myself.

My hubby was adopted when he was 6 weeks old and he has a brother who was adopted aswell. My MIL was unable to have children so that is why she adopted. My MIL and FIL are the nicest people ever, MIL is very caring and loving.

DH has met his birth mother when he was 21 years old. He tracked her down. I have met her a few times once at our wedding and once when she came up here. The only thing that annoys me though is that she tries to take the credit the way hubby turned out and what he has acheived in his life.

If we had a bigger house I would love to be a foster mum, maybe be like Pippa from Home and Away LOL!!

[abo84]

you should try foster care. i am a foster care worker and NO ONE wants these kids (even newborn babies) and yet there are waiting lists to adopt :confused:


just wondering if you were to foster these babies or kids, would you be able to adopt them easier or quicker?

I have always wanted to adopt a child, I have done a lot of looking into it, I did consider fostering in the future, but when looking at it, someone told me they can then be taken back to be placed in an adoptive home, or go back to there birth parents after they have gotten on there feet.

I dont think I could do this, as I would get super attatched and couldnt part with a child, after caring for them and treating them as your own for what ever time.

[tanni_83]

just wondering if you were to foster these babies or kids, would you be able to adopt them easier or quicker?

I have always wanted to adopt a child, I have done a lot of looking into it, I did consider fostering in the future, but when looking at it, someone told me they can then be taken back to be placed in an adoptive home, or go back to there birth parents after they have gotten on there feet.

I dont think I could do this, as I would get super attatched and couldnt part with a child, after caring for them and treating them as your own for what ever time.


i too am wondering about this. i know a foster mum and she has raised twins from birth and she just has to live it day by day not knowing how long she has left with the babys (now about 14mths)

[Misti98]

I am concerned with so many wanting to adopt babies without first knowing the full impact a sepration between mother and a baby has.

Too often, people have generalised about the baby saying he/she will just get over it and bond with his/her 'new' family but the child is traumatised once the separation takes place and loses their identity.

Adoption in the past few years has been 'glamourised' by Hollywood and many people think it is a wonderful thing but has anyone stopped to think about the consequences on the child? Its not as easy as saying I have all this love to give, lets adopt a child. Regardless of a piece of paper that makes you a child's parent, their will always be another mother, another family and the child has the right to know their family.

Adoption has been used (and unfortunately is still used) to steal babies from their mothers for the purpose of filling quotas or to make another couple happy. I am not against children who really need it, being looked after by different people but the demand for newborns really shows the focus is not on the child but the couple adopting.

My husband and I are looking into fostering as their are many children that need a home. Fostering is a much better alternative because it keeps the links with the child's natural family whilst adoption severs all links thus creating a legal lie.

Adoption is a very controversial topic and has caused much pain. One must wonder how 'wonderful' something is when so much pain is caused by it.

[Carmel Jane]

I appreciate your point of view Misti, but your only looking at one aspect of adoption and I don't think anyone who has posted in this topic thinks for a second it would be glamorous to adopt a child. The adoption process whether its intra or inter country alone weeds out anyone who may be thinking of alterior motives or as a talking piece at parties.

Children of all ages are available for adoption and not everyone is wanting to adopt a newborn baby, although I'm sure that may be the preference, it is certainly not mine.

This is a very complex topic and there are many different viewpoints. Its also a sensitive one so please be gentle with your opinions.

[Misti98]

I have a lot more information regarding adoption than some realise and I understand the reasons why people adopt as before I learnt what adoption was all about I had always wanted to adopt children from Romania.

Most adopters want to adopt newborns as children who are adopted later already have 'problems' for want of a better word and most people can't be bothered with that, not that everyone is like that of course. Also newborns are much cuter, smaller, supposedly it is easier for them to bond etc etc. I suggest all prospective adopters read the Primal Wound by Nancy Verrier and her sequel book. Nancy Verrier is an adoptive parent and explains why adoption is a trauma in a baby's life. It is a well researched book.

Also, the reason why women 'relinquish' their children in other countries is nothing to do with 'wanting' to. Anyone who thinks mothers part with their babies voluntarily is wrong. It may look like it but it is circumstances such as the one-child policy in China and poverty which forces them to 'give' their precious infants away. All this talk of so called 'abandoned' children is not correct. Some might be but in cultures where women do not have the right to choose, their children are taken and put in orphanages for the simple reason they are not 'perfect' (cleft palate etc) or they are not the right sex.

I do not like adoption as it steals a child's identity. I am not against bringing a child into your life and giving him/her a loving family, home and upbringing, all children deserve this but I am against the fact that children who are 'adopted' loose their names, identities, knowledge about their real family and in cases of inter country adoption, their culture.

I do not see many people moving and living (permanently) in the cultures their adopted children are from. Instead, the children are made to grow up in a country they do not come from.

I do not expect people to agree with me, many don't but I don't really care as there needs to be a balance in this 'lets adopt' business.

Also, I am taking into account current adoption practises. Local and overseas. Adoption is still used, thankfully less and less, to fill quotas and give children to childless couples or sold to the highest bidder. Whether people like this fact or not is beside the point, it does happen and it is wrong.

As I have already said Adoption is a very controversial topic and has caused much pain. One must wonder how 'wonderful' something is when so much pain is caused by it.

[Tea Lady]

I think I can see what you're getting at Misti, and I'm sure in some / many cases what you're talking about does happen and there are problems for the children / families involved. The problem is though, if someone does "force" the mums to give up the babies, what happens to them then? Personally I'd far prefer that those babies grew up in families who want them than in an orphanage (it's not the adoptive family's fault they were taken in the 1st place). Also, people who adopt from Australia are required to at least make a big effort to keep the child in contact with their culture. I know that's not the same as moving there, but it's better than nothing.

I personally think culture is really acquired anyway, not something you're born with. Many people migrate to different countries and happily take on a new culture - it can be a positive thing (although I know in this case the child is not choosing the situation, but the children of migrants often don't choose either).

I also can't agree that adoption steals a child's identity - identity is something that evolves over a lifetime so I see a great role for adoptive parents in nurturing their children as they create their own identity.

I assume there must be a good reason why you are so opposed to adoption, and if you have been hurt by it then I'm really sorry, but I do think it has the potential to be a very positive thing for many children and families. I think it would also be more constructive to try to encourage adoptive parents to do their job well rather than to imply that they are somehow inevitably going to ruin their future child's life. There are people on this forum who are waiting to adopt and I think you need to consider their feelings.

I know you don't want me to agree with you, but I thought I'd just throw in my 2c worth :)

[Natrat]

This is the first time I have been on this web sight and this thread caught my eye as it is something I am very passionate about. I was adopted as a baby and I have also given a child up for adoption about 15 years ago. I am now 3 months pregnant with my first 'planned' baby and as you can imagine, very excited!

Firstly, please do not believe everything you read about adopted children having a tough time with it or having that 'abandoned child syndrome'. This simply is not true. I was raised in a beautiful loving family by people who wanted children so much but were unable to have one themselves. I consider my adoptive mum and dad my 'real' mum and dad and thank god every day that I was given so many opportunities in life which I would otherwise never have. I have met my birth parents and although they are very nice people and I appreciate my birth mothers decision very much, they will never replace my real mum and dad. I am a product of my upbringing, not my genes, and I am very proud of the person I am! I was not breast fed but my health is excellent. I have red hair and my sister has brown but she is my 'real' sister and we are as close if not closer than blood sisters. I was never teased at school, in fact I have never considered myself to be any different from my peers. And I have never 'lost my identity' or my culture (my birth mother was Irish). If you are considering adopting a child, stick with it, and try to get them as young as possible so you can raise them in a balanced and loving environment. The older ones don't necessarily have 'problems', as Misty suggested, they just haven't had the opportunities that you, as an adoptive parent could give them. It is a very long and difficult process especially in Aust, and if you are able to have children of your own, my advice would be to let those parents who are unable to have any children due to medical reasons have first pick. I hope that doesn't sound too harsh. As for adopting a child from overseas, that is a different story. There are many children out there that need parents like you.

Secondly,

"Anyone who thinks mothers part with their babies voluntarily is wrong."

I'm afraid you are wrong Misty. I made a very educated albeit very difficult decision to give my child up for adoption. I was 19, single, and emotionally way too immature to raise a child. I can tell you though, carrying a child in your belly for 9 months, going through a pretty hellish labour, then signing that baby away is probably the hardest thing I will ever have to do and it has taken plenty of councelling to deal with it. It was also the best thing I have ever done. She was a perfect 9lb 4 little girl and I loved her with a passion that I never thought existed, but that was the whole reason I had to give her up. She deserved the best possible start in life and she deserved all the opportunities I had been given. Her parents had been waiting on the adoption list for 6 years and judging from the letter I got from her mother that little girl changed not only their lives but the lives of every person around them. Yes, I made the right decision, and No I do not feel any guilt.

Adoption IS a wonderful system, and shouldn't be a controversial topic. It is really quite straight forward...if you are lucky enough to be able to adopt a child, do it. And if you have already adopted a child be thankful every day that your childs birth mother didn't take the easy option and terminate. :p

[Tea Lady]

Wow Natrat!! I think you're amazing to have given your baby and her adoptive parents such a wonderful gift. There are so few people who will do it these days that I just wanted to say I was really glad to read about what you did, and that you don't regret it :) It's really refreshing to hear from someone who has "been there".

I hope your pregnancy goes really well too. :)

[Misti98]

Narat,

You must be one of very few women who voluntarily relinquish a child.

In my expereince over the last several years of speaking with adopted persons all over the world, you are also one of few who would promote a child be adopted.

Adoption is NOT straight forward, it is not something to consider at all really in today's age where there is support for women to keep their children. It is as much a trauma for the baby to be separated as it is for the mother. Adoption goes against the very laws of Nature.

I am not creating this, there have been numerous scientific studies carried out over the past few years and books written about attachment, the bond between mother and child and the effects of separation on a child from its mother.

As I said in my last post, check out Nancy Verrier's books for a start. She also has a website. This is an adoptive parent writing about the trauma and she has counselled many many adopted persons and their families over the years so she knows what she is talking about.

Everyone,

I don't know why or how people can see taking a child from its family is a great thing to do. I have already explained I do not have a problem with a child being looked after by people other than his/her parents in specific circumstances but this worrying trend of people thinking adoption is wonderful is really quite sick.

How would you like it if society or your culture forced you to have to put your child on a doorstep or to give it up to strangers to raise? This isn't about being brave or courageous people its about human rights abuses. It isn't about making people feel good about themselves, its about ensuring children stay with their families or get the love and care they need, not what you want. Their are HEAPS of children needing to be fostered yet over and over I hear people saying they couldn't foster because they would get too attached. Well, guess what? It isn't about you, it is about what the child needs.

I know my opinions are not popular but again, I don't care. I haven't yet seen anyone on this thread put themselves in the shoes of a woman who has relinquished or had her child taken from her. I haven't seen anyone care about the mothers of these children they want to adopt. If you truly want to adopt for the greater good, please stop and realise that the child that comes to you is not really 'yours', they have another family and you have been BLESSED with someone else's Heartbreak. Take your needs out of the picture and you will really see this Blessing to its fullest extent.

I know I am opening myself to a heap of judgement and condemnation but if you do this you have missed my point entirely.

[M O P]

just wondering if you were to foster these babies or kids, would you be able to adopt them easier or quicker?
.

I spent 2 hours sittingrightnext to a and talking to a man on a very small plane. This man had 3 foster daughters, they were biological sisters, in South Australia.
They, his wife and himself, had recently taken the 3rd sister in to their home as they wanted to keep the girls together, they couldn't resist. The girls also had 7 other siblings, mostly in care, and they'd just heard the biological mother was preg again.
The authorities prefer the children to stay with another member of family but if that is not possible the children are put in to foster situation and if this is not possible they are put in a motel with a nanny!!
He told me the mother had 3 years, I think, to sort herself out. In that time she had to show she was trying to help herself and her kids, eg attend parenting courses etc. If she failed to do this in the time they would be allowed to adopt the baby.
He also told me they take the girls to see their mother on a regular basis.
He was a very interesting man to be squashed up to, I had heaps of questions and you could see how much he loved these daughters as he was more than willing to talk about them.

[Natrat]

Narat,

Adoption is NOT straight forward, it is not something to consider at all really in today's age where there is support for women to keep their children. It is as much a trauma for the baby to be separated as it is for the mother. Adoption goes against the very laws of Nature.




I have got 2 friends who have also given their children up for adoption and a lot of friends who were also adopted and believe it or not, they all feel the same way I do, so you can read as many books as you like but you will never convince any of us that adoption is an 'unnatural' thing. They are all balanced people and definately not traumatised, unlike many people who were fostered as children.

Yes there is a lot of support for women to keep their children and I do admire women who take on the role of a single mum, but you think about it...you're hubby sounds pretty amazing (considering you are both thinking about fostering), could you really imagine how your kids lives would be without him? Do you really think it is fair on a child to grow up without a dad, and a mum who's struggling on welfare? My dad was such a huge part of my life, I could never deny a child that I loved with all my heart that same chance at happiness. Oops, hope I'm not opening up a huge bombshell here! :(

Misty, I respect your opinion and I think anyone who fosters a child is amazing, but psychological studies have shown that a childs formative years are between the ages of 3 and 12 and their relationships during these years define their relationships for the rest of their lives. A child that is bounced from foster home to foster home or back to the parent is going to end up confused, untrusting, and as case studies have shown they usually end up on the wrong side of the law at various stages in their life. Would it not be better to give that child the best possible start in a stable family environment. After all it is the child we have to think about first and foremost. The bond between mother and child is just as strong as the bond between adoptive mother and child. Ask just about any child or parent who's adopted (I know there are a few exceptions to this however).

At the end of the day I don't think there is anything that I can say that will convince you otherwise, just as there is nothing you can say that will convince me. All I ask is you do not generalise, and please never judge anyone who is part of the system or who wants to adopt a child. Persecute society or other countries cultures by all means but don't persecute the people who are trying to help the children. Yes they are blessed with another persons 'heartache' but at least they can honour that person by giving their child love, security, a mum and a dad, happiness and above all a bright future.

[yummymummy]

I think that its a great idea to adopt a little one form overseas, provided that you and the rest of the family are extremely educated about it.Last year there were 73adoptins Austrralia wide ( this includes overseas adoptions ) , hardly nobody is giving up their babies because we have such a good welfare system.

[Bel1978]

My husband and i are thinking maybe of adopting from overseas, as for the foster care of babies (someone mentioned in a previous messgae) who can we contact for this? At this stage we do not have children but would love one if we could.

[bindiloo]

Before i had my dd i had often wondered if i found out i couldnt have kids how i would handle the thought that i would have to adopt someone elses. It was only today i turned to my dh and said that now i have had my daughter i could easily adopt anothers child instead of having another of our own. I would love to do it however the finances dont support us at this point in time but maybe in the future when things improve. I just looked at my sweet little darling as she was having her bottle and just thought of all the poor kids out there who have no-one to look at them adoringly and love them and give them all they deserve and i would so love to do that for at least one of them if i could.
Just wondering does anyone have any websites i can go on and read some info about it all,especially for adopting overseas children aswell? Id really like to read as much about it as i can and see what is involved.

[meme]

Do you really think it is fair on a child to grow up without a dad, and a mum who's struggling on welfare?

i really have the utmost respect for what you have gone through. i think you gave your child a wonderful gift of a loving family, but please don't underestimate the gift i gave my daughter by bringing her up as a 'struggling single mother on welfare'.

i also think that it must have been a huge thing to be pregnant and then sign over your darling baby. this doesn't make termination an easy option though. easier maybe.

i'll just shoosh now.

[bindiloo]

Thanks Jackie7 we are both married and it is obviously a big decision and something we would have to think over for a long time also my bubs still young so id like to spend some time getting to know her first. But ill just read as much as i can involving it all and we will see how we go down the track. It just breaks your heart thinking of them all alone and how hard life must be for them.

[luckymama]

And if you have already adopted a child be thankful every day that your childs birth mother didn't take the easy option and terminate. :p

Thats a pretty unfair thing to say, terminating is not the EASY option at all, and i really dont think you should say that :thumbsdown:

[susiehomemaker]

Thats a pretty unfair thing to say, terminating is not the EASY option at all, and i really dont think you should say that :thumbsdown:

Hi all,
I think Natrat meant an easier option, not the easy option. I dont think anyone here on hubbub would say that termination was an easy thing at all, just that perhaps ITO it was easier than carrying a child to term, and then signing them over for adoption. Although I have done neither of these things so I guess Im not really qualified to say. I just know that after carrying my DD for 9 months, signing her away would have been the hardest thing of all. But termination was never an issue, maybe I would think that it was the harder decision if it was a decision I had had to make.
Nothing about children/babies is easy or clear cut. Esp parenthood!:devil6:
Goodluck waitingformotherhood, I hope you get you wish soon!:hugs:
J