When does enough become enough?

[pegasus]

Okay - I've debated about starting this thread as the saga just seems to continue and I know from some angles this will make myself and hubby look like uncaring people. I guess my starting statement is - we've been living this life for ten years (hubby 15years).

Started again yesterday with a message from the ex to hubby to call her as they needed to talk and she promised she wouldn't argue. His next call back to me was to say that she'd had the police around as DSD had hit another girl in the face with a stick. She also has apparently been found to have been riding in a stolen car. Somehow this is not unexpected, but still nonetheless not what you want to be told about your 14year old daughter (I don't know how many times I've seen my husband in tears after hearing stuff about both of his kids which he disagrees with but feels powerless to do anything about)

Anyway, hubby's ex apparently rang to ask us to take her for a week to "straighten her up". Again, this isn't unusual, what is unusual is that she went straight to hubby, she usually contacts me and I always say - I'll organise something. Hubby apparently said we wouldn't take her for a week, (we'd do that in school holidays as per usual plan), but if it was for helping her get back on track we'd only take her if it was for a month or more. He backed this up by saying we've been through this many times and nothing ever changes, and until something happens in the mother's house, DSD's behaviour won't change. I agree with him here as when DSD stays with us, I never have to raise my voice to her, or argue with her. It shows she isn't out of control, and knows how to behave if it's expected of her. Ex said whatever and hung up on him.

She then called him back and said she'd thought about it and yes, she wanted us to take DSD for a period of time. Next message was that we weren't to tell her (DSD) as biomum thought she'd run away from home if she knew she wasn't only going for a weekend. Hubby then messaged back we'd sort something out, and even went as far as to say - he respected her for standing up this time and he knew she was doing the right thing (trying to put a positive spin on it) . She then messaged back saying she needed something in writing that it would only be for 2 -3weeks and if DSD wanted to come home she could. Was left last night that we'd pick both children up today and when returning DSS we'd pick up more clothes etc for DSD and tell her she wasn't going home for a while.

Very frustrated with this, whatever is being done at home isn't working - this is the third time in a year that we've been asked to take DSD due to drinking or stealing or suspension from school or whatever... This girl needs some boundaries and fast.

I can't help comparing this situation to a Dr Phil I saw this week on heroin twins where the mum split up with the dad(step) and when he had them on an access visit they were found to be drinking, smoking and stealing, so he said he wanted them full time to sort things out or not at all. The mum then said not at all and blamed the dad when the girls got more out of control and on drugs.

The latest was a message this morning that the mum had decided she needed to think about this and we ended up with no access to either child.

How do you all feel about stances? When do you say enough is enough? Hubby kept saying to me last night - he was hoping for a chance to turn DSD's life around but was worried he'd have his heart broken again from the frustration.......(which looks like what's happened - we know there's cr@p going on, but are powerless to do anything about it).

[reAllytee]

Hey V i know i cant offer much advice but have you & hubby spoken with someone in regards to this ?

It really seems to be getting out of control & im sure in this set of circumstances it would benefit you guys getting custody. I know this would be really reallllly hard but this may be what needed with all thats happened.

I really dont envy what you are going through & can only imagine my feelings if it were me. Im suprised you guys stay so calm really !

Here are a few of these guys :hugs: :hugs:

Really hope things work out :fingerscrossed:

[pegasus]

Thanks for your support Ally.

Yeah - we've talked a fair bit about the custody issue. Thing is while I may sound calm on here, it's not always calm discussions between hubby and I when it's about the two children. (Never when they're around, but he's so hurt from the history that surrounds the relationship and the way their mother still treats us, that he prefers me not to bring it all up).

As far as we know, you have to be seen as really unfit for the other parent to get custody of your children (residential), or for the children to choose it. We've left it open for the children - they've been told that they are welcome if ever they want to choose to live with us, but their mother has a very codependent personality and when the children are with us and mum is going through a tough time, they feel they have to be the ones to sort out things for her and feel they can't leave her. Yet, they are also made to believe a lot of her issues are their fault. In the end I don't think they'd willingly choose to leave their mother's house long term at this point as they feel she needs them too much. (In the same way, my DSD feels she needs to mother my DSS and there's been some really inappropriate things she's been made to do for him, in terms of looking out for him)

We suspect there is drug use, but can't prove it. We know there's physical abuse of other people (as there was with her abusing my hubby), but are not sure beyond a doubt about whether she physically abuses the kids - they've said about smacking years ago, but hard to know and prove. I definitely worry about this and if I knew for sure, I'd be right back to the police station (to get the kids out of there) as I did the first time I met her, when I put the assault charge on her.

We content ourselves at the moment with the knowledge that we don't belittle her to the children (woe betide them ever reading my posts, but then again, I post in facts and don't post just to have a b!tch session about her). Apparently there was a comment DSD said to hubby last weekend where she said "Mum is stupid" - hubby was proud to tell me he said back to her - "You're mum isn't stupid, she just has a lot of things she has to deal with..." or something like that

In all honesty, I think the two children would be better off with us and if it came down to it, we would take them. However, the fight that it would require on our behalf (legally and time wise) is actually something I would dread for my own children's wellbeing. I know from experience, that these two children need a lot of time (not because they are naughty, but because they need continual input in a lot of areas to stimulate their emotional and psychological needs).

I dread taking custody of them for that reason - I want my children to be brought up in a house where they have two loving parents and as little conflict as possible, including keeping them away from the potential influences that the other two children could bring into their lives.

As for hubby - he'd step up to the mark if it came down to the crunch, but for now, he's started stepping back from the whole situation - too painful and he wants to give to our two children as much as he can. Very sad for the other two the differences in their lives to our two.

Just wanted to say - this is almost like an emotional diary - feels good to get it out there - not sure if it achieves anything except helping me get stuff off my chest.:thumbsup: I always feel calmer after posting on here.

[melfunction]

Hey Peg,

Although I don't have any advice for you, I really feel for you and the situation you find yourselves in. Must be very tough to see what your stepkids have to deal with :hugs:

[Nickster]

It's very hard, pegasus, we went through a similar stage with DSS1 when he was 14. There were problems with him in school, he made extremely bad friendship choices, and he ended up being assaulted and needing to have plastic surgery on his face and was lucky to not lose one of his eyes in that incident. I can't speak for your situation, but I think we weren't told a lot of what went on from his mother's side of things, despite him choosing to live with us for a year in the thick of it all. In hindsight, I put a lot of it down to hormones, and teenage rebellion.

Without waffling too much, and wanting to spare you so many more of the gory details, it seems you have a few options. You could try and get custody, but that was never going to happen as it would have crippled us financially, especially as the "ex" had legal aid at her disposal, or you could persuade your DSD to want to live with you, or you can just carry on as you are, doing your best, being there, and setting a positive family example for her.

We had no choice but the latter option, and now, 5 years later, he is in a stable work environment, has his own car and independence and in moments of surprising tenderness, soundly thanks DH and I for "being there" for him back then and setting him an example of stability and a work ethic that he now aspires to.

We're still working on DSS2, who at 16 is in the thick of the same sort of troubles, but we fully expect him to come out of it.

And if there's one last thing I can say to reassure you, it is that it does get better. The older they get, the more they stretch their wings and see what the world is really like, the less time they are under their bio-mother's influence, make all the difference.

Oh dear, I did waffle on a lot. Hope things get better for you, anyway.:hugs:

[pegasus]

Hi Nickster

Thank you so much for your words - I feel we are in a very similar situation as you are describing.

I feel too, we are not being told a lot of what is going on - it seems odd we haven't heard from anyone (biomum or my DSD) since Saturday morning, and she always suggests I couldn't understand what goes on for her.

Financially it would be another issue to fight for custody - legal aid on the other side and we'd have to rely on lawyer friends or what we could afford (same as we did for parenting plan).

As for persuading DSD (and we suspect DSS will be the same in years to come - there have been warning signs), to live with us - we do it, but I guess it's a bit half-hearted (we don't ring her every week to remind her she can come and live with us). At the moment she has the best of both worlds - she can stay with us for a break and normality, and she has full reign at her mother's house.

It was May last year, her mother told me DSD had been drinking and she only knew as she found her throwing up, she'd also been stealing her cigarettes - this was one incident, september last year, she was suspended from school. In both instances we offered to take her. In September, I cut short what I was doing only to have biomum calling the next day wanting to pick her up (we had her for 4days).

We'll keep plodding on, but it's great to know there's others out there with similar issues and that understand.

Also feels good to get it off my chest;)

[reAllytee]

Peg - I really dont know how you do it :hugs: :hugs:

It just really makes my mind boggle !

[pegasus]

Okay - update on this one

since we had the issue/scare/whatever you want to call it about what DSD is up to I have chatted to her a couple of times on MSN.

She's said that she's been very emotional (not surprised!) and I've also sent her some emails to let her know that we don't hate her, but don't like some of the behaviours that she's been displaying.

Her words were that she's spending more time across the road with her "other family" as she doesn't feel like she exists at home. I asked her if this is because she gets ignored, but she said that she doesn't get ignored, more that "everything is her fault". I then told her that she has another family here that she is welcome to live with, but some of her behaviours would have to change (ie. she couldn't drink or smoke etc.....)

When I asked her how DSS is, she said that he got suspended from school for the rest of the week for fighting, I'm starting (no not really starting - this has building over the years) to see a pattern of behaviour that is sending both my DSS and my DSD into some really destructive behaviour (some of you might remember my DSD was suspended from school last year - she came to stay with us until her mum said she needed her home as she missed her).

My question today is .....

What are the next steps?

What I think is that knowing that custody is a huge step, I think we need to get some mediation (both DH and biomum will probably not be able to have any sort of rational discussion between the two of them for the good of the children), to say that we need a new parenting agreement and that both parties need to abide by it or there will be consequences.

I feel that whatever biomum is doing is not working - both children suspended from school, then the police involved......

In all seriousness I worry about what would happen to my children if either or both of the children came to live with us (I'd do it if it came to the crunch, but selfishly I'd prefer to keep my children sheltered from these goings on).

However, I'm prepared to examine the options as I feel it's our duty (more my hubby's but anything he does will impact me moreso as I'm home more than him and I'd end up with all contact with the school etc).

So wondering if any of you have gone for custody to have an impact on your stepchildren's lives or been forced into the position and what the deal is there....

[pegasus]

Okay - this has become a bit of an emotional journal, but I guess that's okay as isn't that what Bubhub is for?

Anyway - after many a discussion with hubby over the last week we agreed he should try to call the kids more often and figure what's happening.

(Last call while he was in Melbourne last week - no answer - he thinks then - it's okay - he doesn't have to try again for awhile, I think he should continue trying till he gets an answer)

Monday - he calls ex to find out what's going on (with DSD after her shenanigans and DSS after his suspension), got an earful of abuse, so said he won't bother calling her but will try calling DSD later to find out how she is.

He then tells me he's tried her number 10 times and no answer, so I try it. DSD picks up on first ring and is in absolute hysterics. She said her phone had gone dead so she didn't get her dad's calls. I ask her what's going on and she gets out that her camera is missing - so - no reason for hysterics - she then tells me her mum was going to hit her because she couldn't find her camera as she needed it to go hock it as she needed money. WTF:eek: :mad: I mean, her maintenance is due this Thursday, but her parenting payments go in the other week, so she was last paid last Thursday.

Apparently when she couldn't find the camera she went on a rampage about how DSD doesn't deserve anything she buys her and so she's taking stuff to hock. Only thing I got from DSD was she took her DVD player (Okay - I've said before that I don't agree with her having a DVD player and TV in her room, but come on)

Got so furious - biomum then took off after leaving DSD at home with biomum's boyfriend (obviously back) there.

Hubby speaks to DSD tells her he'll be there to pick her up as he is so angry and she needs some help, we start working all this out then 10mins later, new call from hubby.

He's not picking her up anymore as he's received an abusive phone call from biomum - "You're not getting the @#%% kids, you'll never get custody....(insert numerous expletives here"

First thing he did when he got in the door was to play me the voice mail that had all this in it...

We're now so angry and absolutely at a loss. I'm convinced drugs have to be involved - I mean - why hock your kids' stuff? I know she's hocked DSS' play station previously, but thought with the extra maintenance she's been getting since DH got a promotion 18months ago that she wouldn't do it again.

Am now trying to work out how much more I can stick my nose in. Do I call the school and try to find out more? I know I suspect the emotional abuse is so much more than we even realise and even if they haven't been physically abused, it must be coming soon. If ever some physical abuse happens, hubby has sworn he'll go straight there and get them, but I worry too much damage will be done with the emotional stuff first.

At this point, hubby has said he'll continue to call DSD (DSS' mobile doesn't work, and he won't call the mother). We won't go for custody as we dont' have the $30k needed and by the time we got a hearing (without proof of imperative danger to the kids) they'd be nearly 16/18 anyway.

so where we are at the moment is waiting - waiting to hear anything more, waiting for the kids to choose to come...We know in the past that DSD has said she can't ever leave her mother because her mother needs her - this is something that disturbs me more than a lot of the rest - it reeks of emotional abuse!!!

[cmd'smum]

Aw V so sorry you're going through this babe :hugs:

As a family lawyer one thing I can tell you is that, custody or Residence is not worth applying for in your situation. Like you said they will be adults in a few years. It can take up to a year or more to get to a full hearing at the FC. Add on all the finanical, and emotional stress. Due to your DSD and DSD age, the Court would place a huge weight on their wishes. Even if you did get custody, they will do what they want in the end as in a few years they will be adults.

I have no experience with your type of situation, personally, all I can suggest is that you and DH just keep being there for the kids. If they were very young, diff story, but when they reach a certain age, all you can really do is be there for them! :hugs:

Hope everything sorts out soon.

Takecare

[pegasus]

Thanks for your reply L (didn't know you were a family lawyer:thumbsup: bonus)

It's good to hear the same stuff from someone outside the situation.

Only another 4weeks to go till you meet your little girl - hope to see you at another dinner or meet then:wave: (we always love to see the bubbas LOL)

[cmd'smum]

Thanks for your reply L (didn't know you were a family lawyer:thumbsup: bonus)

It's good to hear the same stuff from someone outside the situation.

Only another 4weeks to go till you meet your little girl - hope to see you at another dinner or meet then:wave: (we always love to see the bubbas LOL)

You're welcome!

Don't think I'm going to last 4 weeks . I recon 2 to 2 1/2 MAX!! (Or maybe it's wishful thinking!) Will try to make it to one of the upcoming meets. I've just got so many appointments in the next couple of weeks, so makes it hard!

Will def catch up soon though :hugs:

[reAllytee]

Oh V :hugs: :hugs:

This just makes me cry & while my nephew isnt in as bad a situation it reminds me of what he goes through a little.

My sister sells his stuff .... On Ebay but thats ok apparently & the worse thing is it isnt for drugs but just for her to get pathetic things !

I really hope that in a few years you are still able to get these kids to live with you. Because my fear is that while they will be able to do what they want then that they may but that could mean living elsewhere & with undesirables !

I really dont know how you guys do it :hugs: :hugs:

[InSaneOne]

:hugs: :hugs: i can understand where you are coming from as we have a similar blended family here.

it is hard and you can only hope that the kids have enough "normal" with you guys that it help to balance out the rest of the craziness. just let the kids know that you are there for them and hope that when the time comes they can turn to you. if you ever need to chat or vent feel free to pm me.


i feel your frustration and helplessness.:hugs:

[pegasus]

Apologies for length in advance.....

Okay - all was fine (except we hadn't seen the kids since last I posted as the mum freaked out following the issue with hocking the DVD player etc as I posted and witheld contact...)

Then biomum obviously had something planned, so messaged last week that she wanted us to have both kids together this weekend. Was all okay and sorted until my little girl got sick on Friday. Won't go into that - but ended up with me turning up to PMH (children's hospital in Perth at lunchtime and them wanting to keep us for a bit for observation), Hubby called ex - told her we didn't know what was happening so would tell her when he knew, but couldn't get the kids at arranged time. She immediately rang me (he was still at work, but no car with him - car was with me at hospital), with an earful of abuse. I tried saying - I was trying to figure what we could do, but she kept going on about how she'd spent $300 on her weekend and how dare we spoil it.

Meanwhile I am in a cubicle in ED with a screaming one year old and trying to make sure the 3year old doesn't escape.

I hang up on biomum and call DSD to say - tell your mum we're trying to figure it but need to hear from the dr what's happening... DSD seems fine, but I can hear her mum ranting in the background.

I then get an sms 10min later from biomum saying - all okay - alternative arrangements made - so can we just have the kids next weekend instead. Silly thing was we were discharged at 4 so could have got the kids jus an hour later than arranged.

I spoke to DSD on Fri night - she was staying at a friend's across the road, and DSS was with mum's boyfriend's family motorbike riding. Mum was due back on Sat.

Then today we were at my nephew's birthday and calls started. 1st was from DSD - wanting to talk to dad. Next I get a call from biomum in tears saying she thinks we may need to pick DSD up. I pass my phone to hubby as I've been looking after 2children at my nephew's party and it's cake etc time.

Hubby tells me we need to go in case something blows up. No further calls, but apparently DSD had asked to stay for a week as she needs a break from her mum as they've had an arguement. Hubby tells her she really needs to come for longer (term or whatever) as nothing would change in a week and all that she'd do would be to miss a week of school which makes it harder. Ex then said she was told we wouldn't have her and hubby needs to step up to the mark as she's his daughter. Hubby said he told her he'd only said - no to a week, but yes if she wanted a term (so we could enrol her in school or whatever and work on changing some behaviours). Ended again with hubby calling back DSD as phone cut out on biomum's phone. Biomum in the background ranting at neighbour how she can't have DSD anymore as too much trouble. Hubby said to DSD it was really up to her as we can't make her do something she doesn't want to do and she knows the score.

Anyway - I get on MSN tonight and chat to DSD to find out her take on it. I've decided she really doesn't get it. She said she thought she didn't want to come here for a term as it's hard changing school - I agree, but when I asked her what her plan was - get a job so she could get money! (I told her that was like changing schools) I also said money has never been the issue for her - regardless of whether something was a present or she bought it with her money if her mum's prepared to hock her stuff - won't matter if she worked for it...

She put a picture of a child (think lives across the road) and said she'd miss the child too much. I said - you've got a brother and sister who live here you have more of a connection to, if you lived with us, you'd see the other child more often than you currently see your own brother and sister

she said there wouldn't be a difference between if she stayed with us for a week or if she stayed for a term - I said she would be able to make more decisions about how to live her life and ?make changes. I then said about the things we knew she did that were destructive - drinking, smoking, involvement with stolen cars, hitting people ... and said how things were different here - that hopefully we'd be able to find her different outlets. She said those things weren't the issues as the things she fights with her mum about isn't that stuff - it's stupid things like her phone.

This showed me she really has no idea about how destructive the stuff she is doing in her life, and therefore won't make any changes.

I don't want to come down heavy handed, but how do I give this girl a wake up call without alienating her???