View Full Version : Anaesthetic used in circumcision?
I'm interested in the types of anaesthetic used. My DS is intact and I would never even consider circumcision for any child of mine. That said, the other day I was at my OB for a check-up and the receptionist came up to me and said that the Dr. was about to perform a circ. and would I like to step outside so I don't have to hear the screams:gloomy: . I did leave, and sat in the cafe outside. The baby's parents came and sat near me. [judgement on parents removed by moderator]
Anyway after 10 mins or so the Dr. came out with the baby all wrapped up in a blanket. He gave them the baby and the mother held him up to look at him- I sneaked a big stickybeak and the wierdest thing is that the baby looked 100% calm. It freaked me out a bit TBH as he looked so relaxed yet awake. My DD looks the worse for wear after a brief car ride, so it is just inexplicable that the baby could look so peaceful after having his genitals cut. My only conclusion is that the baby was drugged. WDYT? What forms of anaesthetic might have been used? Or can a baby just get over something so momentous in a few minutes?:confused:
Rainbowbrite
11-05-2007, 16:00
I dont think thats very fair to say Beany :no: Alot of people have commented that their sons were asleep before, during & after the proceedure.
Yes, of course.... shock is a very good explaination:detective: .
RB: perhaps. But the majority of babies (according to various sources) feel the pain, cry and then go into a state of shock where they appear to be calm.
I wasn't making any sort of judgement about the procedure, I was just (granted altogether far too concisely which then appears to be callously) explaining why a child would appear so calm.
westerner
11-05-2007, 16:06
I dont think thats very fair to say Beany :no: Alot of people have commented that their sons were asleep before, during & after the proceedure.
I agree..
I think this question needs to be answered by people who have actually had there little ones done and experienced it other wise your not going to get a sensible answer..
My son wasnt done so i cannot help you but hopefully someone can give you some proper answers..
My son wasn't circumcised but my nephews were/are.
I havent got sons, and if i did I wouldn't get them done so I dont know for a fact, but maybe the pain is like when they go for their needles? Hurts initialy but once it's over, they quickly forget about it. I understand it might be uncomfortable for them to live with for the next week or so, but if it's an initial pain, and then mummy soothes them, maybe they do just calm down.....:detective:
[text removed by moderator]
Also, at my obs the mothers have to sit in the waiting room, or outside, only the nurse and dr are in the actual procedure. Three boys were done while i was waiting for my ob appt. the other day. Only one cried, and was fine when he was given back to his mummy. All in and out in about half hour (for the 3 of them). My nephew also slept through the procedure. Didnt even stir as they were doing it and his dr said it wasnt uncommon.
I'd be putting my foot down and demanding I be with my son. No reason why you shouldn't be allowed.
Chickadee
11-05-2007, 16:14
Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far. I'm just going to go through now and remove all the judgements being made on the parents in this case. Since none of you know them, don't know what was going through their minds in that cafe, lets not judge them. I'm sure you'd be rightly annoyed if some stranger started judging your parenting decisions when you were out somewhere.
I'm going to agree with Beany on this one. Granted I have not and will not circ if we ever have a son but one of my friend's had her son done and she said that he cried, then was really calm and relaxed for about an hour and then screamed pretty well for the whole weekend (he was done on a Friday). She told me that he was screaming cause he was in pain from his 'little boy's operation.' To my knowledge he didn't get a local or anything and he cried during the procedure so shock would be the thing that makes the most sense to me.
I'm really sorry that I was judgemental- I have tried to understand their position and have had trouble with it. I'm sorry.
Chickadee
11-05-2007, 16:21
Ignoring the circumcision procedure for a moment: Some very young bubs cry as soon as they're woken and unwrapped. Rewrapping them & cuddling them after the procedure would help to comfort them.
So crying and then being calm after doesn't necessarily have to be from shock of the procedure.
Mister Noodle
11-05-2007, 16:21
I think this question needs to be answered by people who have actually had there little ones done and experienced it other wise your not going to get a sensible answer
No. The plural of anecdote is not data.
I'm digging up some studies now on the recorded medical responses of infants following the procedure.
Ignoring the circumcision procedure for a moment: Some very young bubs cry as soon as they're woken and unwrapped. Rewrapping them & cuddling them after the procedure would help to comfort them.
So crying and then being calm after doesn't necessarily have to be from shock of the procedure.
I think this is in response to my post. I get what you're saying but the fact that he was really calm and then they had a horrible weekend full of tears from her son crying in pain (she was/is all for circ so it's not like she was forced to have her son circ and is bitter about it) but he was so calm initially would indicate shock. If it was as simple as he wanted to be wrapped or something then I'm sure they would've wrapped him.
A lot of studies say that some babies go into shock after the procedure.....who knows if it was the case for the baby in the cafe but you can't rule it out either.
westerner
11-05-2007, 16:27
No. The plural of anecdote is not data.
I'm digging up some studies now on the recorded medical responses of infants following the procedure.
Thats fine.. ;)
But just remember.. I could dig up some info and studies on anything i wanted that matched a certain opinion on the matter.. (for or against..)
Which is why i mentioned that i felt the original poster would get the best answer from parents that had actually had 1st hand experience on the matter..
I dont feel the need to read any medical responses you may find.. But thanks anyway.. ;)
Chickadee
11-05-2007, 16:30
ACE1, it wasn't actually in response to your post. But I don't disagree with you. I was simply trying to present an alternative explanation that should be considered, since I had read that some babes don't seem bothered or in much pain during the healing time. But again, that's just anecdotal stories and I may well have the wrong info.
ACE1, it wasn't actually in response to your post. But I don't disagree with you. I was simply trying to present an alternative explanation that should be considered, since I had read that some babes don't seem bothered or in much pain during the healing time. But again, that's just anecdotal stories and I may well have the wrong info.
No worries!
reAllytee
11-05-2007, 16:46
I will answer this ...
My son was given a penile block, basically a local anesthetic then the procedure was done using the plastibell method.
This was the only way i agreed to it. Yes the block would sting but he didnt flinch & whilst he had a cry this actually started before the procedure because i was stupid enough not to burp the colicky baby. Once he burped he slept happily & we never had any dramas with nappy changes or baths.
Infact i had a screaming baby who hated & loathed baths beforehand. We had visitors who knew when we were bathing him as they could hear him from the street & even our neighbours would comment. He had to have 4 salt baths a day for a few days after & from that day forward he loved them, giggled, kicked, smiled, go figure when they are meant to be in shock as many say.
All 5 of my cousins also slept through their procedure as did DP & his brothers.
westerner
11-05-2007, 16:49
Thanks for writing about your experience allyoo..
I hope that everybody is mature enough not to give you any grief for sharing your story..
:hugs: :hugs:
I don't think you're a bad parent at all Allyoo.:no: :hugs: :hugs:
I grateful for your experience too Allyoo. You answered my question well.
MotherNurture
12-05-2007, 01:03
I'm interested in the types of anaesthetic used. My DS is intact and I would never even consider circumcision for any child of mine. That said, the other day I was at my OB for a check-up and the receptionist came up to me and said that the Dr. was about to perform a circ. and would I like to step outside so I don't have to hear the screams:gloomy: . I did leave, and sat in the cafe outside. The baby's parents came and sat near me. [judgement on parents removed by moderator]
Anyway after 10 mins or so the Dr. came out with the baby all wrapped up in a blanket. He gave them the baby and the mother held him up to look at him- I sneaked a big stickybeak and the wierdest thing is that the baby looked 100% calm. It freaked me out a bit TBH as he looked so relaxed yet awake. My DD looks the worse for wear after a brief car ride, so it is just inexplicable that the baby could look so peaceful after having his genitals cut. My only conclusion is that the baby was drugged. WDYT? What forms of anaesthetic might have been used? Or can a baby just get over something so momentous in a few minutes?:confused:
Several things:
1.) Newborns don't react to pain in the same ways as older children and adults, hense the reason there are different types of scales to measure pain, like the Neonatal Infant Pain Scale (NIPS) (http://www.anes.ucla.edu/pain/assessment_tool-nips.htm). Nips measures facial expression, cry, breathing patterns, flexion of the arms and legs, and state of arousal.
2.) You know how newborns don't produce much urine during the first few days after birth, until the mother's milk comes in? They don't always produce a lot of tears, either.
3.) askdrsears.com (http://askdrsears.com/html/10/t101500.asp) states: "Yes, it hurts. The skin of the penis of a newborn baby has pain receptors completely sensitive to clamping and cutting. The myth that newborns do not feel pain came from the observation that newborns sometimes withdraw into a deep sleep toward the end of the operation. This does not mean that they do not feel pain. Falling into a deep sleep is a retreat mechanism, a withdrawal reaction as a consequence of overwhelming pain. Not only does circumcision cause pain in the penis, the newborns over all physiology is upset."
4.) The phenomenon of a calm, glassy-eyed look babies often have immediately after a traumatic circumcision has even developed a nickname: circoma. It doesn't mean that the procedure wasn't painful, nor does it mean they're 'over it'.
5.)...
Preliminary studies suggested that pain experienced by infants in the neonatal period may have long-lasting effects on future infant behaviour."
...This study showed that neonatal circumcision in male infants is associated with increased pain response in vaccination 4-6 months after surgery. The results support our previous finding of a higher pain response in circumcised than uncircumcised male infants during routine vaccination.
...It is, therefore, possible that the greater vaccination response in the infants circumcised without anaesthesia may represent an infant analogue of a post-traumatic stress disorder triggered by a traumatic and painful event and re-experienced under similar circumstances of pain during vaccination.
...The results of this study are consistent with studies of pain response in animals and behavioural studies in humans showing that injury and tissue damage sustained in infancy can cause sustained changes in central neural function, which persist after the wound has healed and influence behavioural responses to painful events months later. Pretreatment and postoperative management of neonatal circumcision pain is recommended based on these results. Investigation of the neurological basis of these effects is warranted.
http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/taddio2/
6.) Pain relief options for neonatal circumcision include:
a. EMLA-A lidocaine-based cream that is applied topically and numbs very superficially, doesn't prevent pain with deeper tissue trauma during circumcision like when the foreskin is torn from the glans and clamped. It also takes 30-60 minutes to take effect, and has to be under an occlusive dressing; if baby urinates, it has to be reapplied.
b. Local (injected) anesthetic, usually lidocaine-Burns like a beesting when it's infused into tissue. Must be injected at several points in/around the penis. Most effective methods are the Dorsal Penile Nerve Block (DPNB) and the Subcutaneous Ring Block (SCRB). Administration is apinful. Effectiveness varies. Many doctors don't wait for it to actually take effect (at least 5 minutes) before they start cutting.
c. Sucrose (sugar water)-Commercially available as "SweetEase". Basically like giving a child a lollypop as an anesthetic for surgery. It may provide a slight calming effect, and of course something in a baby's mouth will inherently muffle screams.
d. Tylenol-Hardly worth mentioning, but it is sometimes given preceding or after circumcision for pain control. Even for post-op pain, remember emember, an adult would be given narcotics. Babies get a tiny dose of infant tylenol.
More info available at:
http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/
http://www.birthpsychology.com/birthscene/circ.html
The still alert, wide-eyed baby baby wasn't drugged, not systemically, anyway...but he was likely traumatized. I once saw a video fo a circumcision where the baby-completely unanesthetized-barely made a peep and just blankly stared off into space, eyes glassy, empty, betrayed. It was actually far more disturbing than any video I've seen where the baby's shrieking through the entire thing.
HTHs,
Jen
PS. It's amazing how many people try to rationalize a baby crying during surgery on his genitals away to other factors, like "He just didn't like being strapped down.", "The lights were just a little bright.", "He cried because the room was cold.", "He must have been hungry.", etc. It couldn't possibly be the clinical environment, the circumstraint, the masked practitioner decending upon the center of his sexuality-an area which should exclusively know pleasure, not pain-with latex gloves and impliments of surgery like needled syringes, clamp, & scalpel. It couldn't possibly be a self-preservation instinct kicking in.
MotherNurture
12-05-2007, 10:03
Does anyone honestly believe that a baby remembers this anyways? Do you know any man who has ever said 'I remember when i was 5 days old and oh god that hurt like hell'
To me the pain is like getting their needles. They dont remember, and we believe in the benefits.
One of the reasons conscious memories aren't formed until later is because very young children don't have words-language-to attach to experiences. That doesn't mean they aren't effected or there aren't long-term (or lifelong) consequences to those experiences. Parents inherently know that early experiences matter and that the brain of their newborn is being hardwired...that's why we hold them close, swaddle them, stroke their sweet cheeks, whisper loving words, and try to make their worlds as safe and peaceful as possible. Just because they can't consciously remember, doesn't mean their bodies and hearts won't.
Did you know they used to do open heart surgery on babies without anesthetic? Instead, they just gave them a medication to paralyze them so they wouldn't move. Why? Because doctors believed they couldn't perceive pain, or, if they could, they wouldn't remember it anyway.
We've come a long way, but we still have a long ways to go...
Unlike immunizations, no medical organization in the world recommends routine infant circumcision.
Jen
:crying: Thanks MotherNurture.
It is just so sad.
The very fact that my OB sent his receptionist to ask me to leave means that lots of bubs do scream during the procedure.:gloomy: Why ever would he have bothered if the baby wasn't going to feel any pain? Obviously that outwardly calm response is only one of the possibilities.
Thanks for that quote from Dr. Sears- I should have known to look it up there for myself.:o
prideNJoy
12-05-2007, 15:50
It's so easy to rationalise for and against's, no matter what the issue is there are always two ways of looking at it.
We go through life encountering traumatic events on a day to day basis, there is no proof that this particular 'traumatic event' will affect the individual.
Babys remove themselves from stressful situations all the time, eg, plane flights, vaccinations etc....
It can be seen as a way of them protecting their little souls rather than sleeping simply because of shock, babies regenerate when they sleep..could this be what they are doing?
Preliminary studies suggested that pain experienced by infants in the neonatal period may have long-lasting effects on future infant behaviour."
...This study showed that neonatal circumcision in male infants is associated with increased pain response in vaccination 4-6 months after surgery. The results support our previous finding of a higher pain response in circumcised than uncircumcised male infants during routine vaccination.
...It is, therefore, possible that the greater vaccination response in the infants circumcised without anaesthesia may represent an infant analogue of a post-traumatic stress disorder triggered by a traumatic and painful event and re-experienced under similar circumstances of pain during vaccination.
...The results of this study are consistent with studies of pain response in animals and behavioural studies in humans showing that injury and tissue damage sustained in infancy can cause sustained changes in central neural function, which persist after the wound has healed and influence behavioural responses to painful events months later. Pretreatment and postoperative management of neonatal circumcision pain is recommended based on these results. Investigation of the neurological basis of these effects is warranted.
http://www.cirp.org/library/pain/taddio2/
Interesting, yet not relevant i suppose for those of us that dont Vaccinate, and for those who do there is a wonderful cream called Emla that numbs the area so the baby wouldnt feel the needle anyway. :thumbsup:
Just my thoughts !!!
MotherNurture
12-05-2007, 16:24
Melissa, I've seen circumcisions where a topical and local were used and the baby still felt it; EMLA numbs very superficially, baby might not feel the initial, external poke but they do feel deeper penetration and the infusion of the medication...which stings/burns. Local (injected) anesthesia may significantly reduce pain, which is certainly a good thing.
Regardless, pain is not the primary reason people like me oppose circumcision.
Jen
kristi001
12-05-2007, 16:45
Hey... :wave:
Sorry Must have Missed the Question to this Thread..
I thought It was about anaesthetic Not wether its Right Or wrong :confused:
Anyway...
We are Getting Our Son done at 12 Months and he will be under a General..
So He will be Asleep During the Procedure and is Just given panadol a few Hours after.
There is also the Penile Block which Allyoo Said.. Which is a Needle.
And I Have heard for the really Young babies they use A Numbing Cream in the general Area..
Quote me if i am wrong hehe
I know you will :laughing:
Allyoo Gotta Love ya Baby!!
Hope this Helps...
reAllytee
12-05-2007, 18:44
PS. It's amazing how many people try to rationalize a baby crying during surgery on his genitals away to other factors, like "He just didn't like being strapped down.", "The lights were just a little bright.", "He cried because the room was cold.", "He must have been hungry.", etc. It couldn't possibly be the clinical environment, the circumstraint, the masked practitioner decending upon the center of his sexuality-an area which should exclusively know pleasure, not pain-with latex gloves and impliments of surgery like needled syringes, clamp, & scalpel. It couldn't possibly be a self-preservation instinct kicking in.
Its not rationalisation its called knowing your baby's cries after 3mths of age as to whether he is in pain or not.
Ive only stated that my son only cried because i didnt burp him after having his bottle directly before the procedure. I cant speak for others in what they experienced with their child & it would be nice if you didnt either.
His cries were his wind pain cries ... I know my son.
I also forgot to add DS wasnt a newborn btw he was 3mths old.
Phyllis Stein
12-05-2007, 23:34
I have one thing to say that is somewhat related to the topic.
In short: Due to a congenital medical condition, from birth I experienced numerous surgical/ medical procedures, which ranged from using general aneasthesia to nothing but panadol. My parents tell me that I would often respond to pain with a detached, glassy-eyed expression, like what nut described. As a toddler, I used to 'disappear' (my nickname was the 'stunned mullet'). I have since strongly & automatically disassociated in reaction to any kind of pain.
A few years back I had symptoms of PTSD & underwent therapy, which focused on my body. In short, I discovered that I held memories of that early pain in my body - I know this because with therapy, I actually 'remembered' some of it & I can affirm that it wasn't like 'normal' memories where there's consciousness of events, more like very strong & overwhelming feelings/ sensations, often accompanied by strong 'hospital' smells - very hard to describe.
Anyway, I don't mean to be off-topic, just wanted to say that an infant experiences pain & trauma every bit as powerfully as adults do.
MotherNurture
13-05-2007, 01:03
I cant speak for others in what they experienced with their child & it would be nice if you didnt either.
I'm sorry you took offense, but I really wasn't responding to your post specifically.
That being said, it's very very common for parents to suggest that their newborn, strapped to a circumstraint and being cut on, is crying for reasons other than pain. I think in a large percentage of cases it's an extreme case of denial. That's my opinion, as someone who's assisted with anesthetized circumcisions and observed & charted pain responses using the NIPS scale I mentioned previously.
I have one thing to say that is somewhat related to the topic.
In short: Due to a congenital medical condition, from birth I experienced numerous surgical/ medical procedures, which ranged from using general aneasthesia to nothing but panadol. My parents tell me that I would often respond to pain with a detached, glassy-eyed expression, like what nut described. As a toddler, I used to 'disappear' (my nickname was the 'stunned mullet'). I have since strongly & automatically disassociated in reaction to any kind of pain.
A few years back I had symptoms of PTSD & underwent therapy, which focused on my body. In short, I discovered that I held memories of that early pain in my body - I know this because with therapy, I actually 'remembered' some of it & I can affirm that it wasn't like 'normal' memories where there's consciousness of events, more like very strong & overwhelming feelings/ sensations, often accompanied by strong 'hospital' smells - very hard to describe.
Anyway, I don't mean to be off-topic, just wanted to say that an infant experiences pain & trauma every bit as powerfully as adults do.
Thank you so much for sharing this. :hugs:
Jen
mumx3littlies
13-05-2007, 08:11
I'm going to agree with Beany on this one. Granted I have not and will not circ if we ever have a son but one of my friend's had her son done and she said that he cried, then was really calm and relaxed for about an hour and then screamed pretty well for the whole weekend (he was done on a Friday). She told me that he was screaming cause he was in pain from his 'little boy's operation.' To my knowledge he didn't get a local or anything and he cried during the procedure so shock would be the thing that makes the most sense to me.
I agree with this as well. We have 2 boys and neither of them is circumcised so I dont have personal experience with it but if you imagine having that done to your own genitals I would have to say that I wud be more than shocked!
madlizzie
24-05-2007, 22:52
It's like everything with kids, they are your kids and it's your decision. Personally I think circumsision is unnecessary although my husband disagrees with me.
I wonder who will "win" the argument when our son is born in four weeks time!!! :fingerscrossed:
MotherNurture
25-05-2007, 00:15
It's like everything with kids, they are your kids and it's your decision. Personally I think circumsision is unnecessary although my husband disagrees with me.
Routine infant circumcision isn't recommended by any medical organization in the world. 80% of the world's male population retains their whole penis. The chance of a boy *ever* requiring circumcision for medical reasons is just 1%.
You're right; he's wrong.
I wonder who will "win" the argument when our son is born in four weeks time!!! :fingerscrossed:
This doesn't need to be a struggle between the two of you. The decision regarding the completely elective amputation of healthy, sensitive parts of a future man's primary sex organ can be deferred to the owner of the penis in question, as a fully-informed, consenting adult.
BJU Study, April 2007: Fine-touch pressure thresholds in the adult penis (http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06685.x)
CONCLUSION: Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.
Jen
Ange&Seth
25-05-2007, 01:04
Not all babies are strapped to a 'circumstraint'. My boy wasn't :no: I find this generalisation, that all babies are strapped down while unfamiliar drs 'cut' them, to be very disturbing and misleading.
My son was circumcised using the Plastibell method, and was given a numbing gel to the area before the procedure was performed. He started crying as soon as he was unwrapped. He was 4-5 weeks old.
How do I know he wasn't strapped down? Because I was there the whole time and held him myself.
As I said, he cried as soon as he was unwrapped, but stopped as soon as he was wrapped again. He then had a feed and slept for his normal time.
No, in answer to the OP's question, I don't believe my son was in shock. Nor do I believe he experienced any great amount of pain. He was not cut. There was no blood, no scalpel, no ******** circumstraint, and he WAS given a form of anaesthesia.
How do I know he wasn't strapped down? Because I was there the whole time and held him myself.
As I said, he cried as soon as he was unwrapped, but stopped as soon as he was wrapped again. He then had a feed and slept for his normal time.
That's gotta be the nicest way they can do it, if you get to hold your baby....:yes: I don't see why doctors cant let EVERY mother hold their baby while they get it done. It would cause so much less stress and upset for the baby I think.
Sorry that was off topic.
vespertine
25-05-2007, 08:25
I believe that the most likely explanation would be shock aswell. I am not saying every child would go into shock- but from your description it sounds to me like this particular child did, and I know it is a common reaction.
Ange&Seth
25-05-2007, 10:12
That's gotta be the nicest way they can do it, if you get to hold your baby....:yes: I don't see why doctors cant let EVERY mother hold their baby while they get it done. It would cause so much less stress and upset for the baby I think.
Thankyou Nash - you are the first person on this forum who has commented and not had a go at me or call me names :thumbsup:
MotherNurture
28-05-2007, 10:19
don't see why doctors cant let EVERY mother hold their baby while they get it done. It would cause so much less stress and upset for the baby I think.
Sorry that was off topic.
The reason is because babies are squirmy, parents are often emotional, circumcision is surgery and one tiny slip on such a tiny organ and a lot more damage could be done than foreskin amputation. Most babies are strapped to a circumstraint because it ensures they're not going to arch or kick during a crucial moment. Even with anesthetic, circumcision still causes many babies considerable discomfort.
Jen
Thankyou Nash - you are the first person on this forum who has commented and not had a go at me or call me names :thumbsup:
That's okay...:hugs: Im trying to see things in a different light lately.:yes: :hugs:
The reason is because babies are squirmy, parents are often emotional, circumcision is surgery and one tiny slip on such a tiny organ and a lot more damage could be done than foreskin amputation. Most babies are strapped to a circumstraint because it ensures they're not going to arch or kick during a crucial moment. Even with anesthetic, circumcision still causes many babies considerable discomfort.
Jen
Oh, and I get that, I guess I just meant they could be in the room, right next to their baby, so bubs could see them, maybe hold their hand or something.
I know it would be emotional for the parent, but if them being there soothes the baby and makes it less (insert non judgemental word here).....then I was just saying I think parents should be at least allowed to make that choice to be there or not.:thumbsup:
My son was circumcised, he was also given a general
The only time he cried was when he was given the needle,once the anaethestic wore off he was a little grizzly but otherwise was calm. I work in childcare and too often have i seen littl boys doodles red swollen and sore because they constantly play with it and because the skin can not be retracted, it is not cleaned properly and dirt and germs get in there. I would rather have my son circumcised at an early age rather then him need to get one due to medical reasons at an older age where he remembers more and is in more pain. Each to their own at the end of the day
~rambox~
10-06-2007, 11:56
I dont think thats very fair to say Beany :no: Alot of people have commented that their sons were asleep before, during & after the proceedure.
:yes: My boys where given a local there and they came back to my hospital room sound asleep and i never had a problem with them at all
MotherNurture
11-06-2007, 05:56
I work in childcare and too often have i seen littl boys doodles red swollen and sore because they constantly play with it and because the skin can not be retracted, it is not cleaned properly and dirt and germs get in there.
I'm curious how you, as a childcare worker, know whether or not a child's foreskin is retractible or not. Frequently irritation is a result of overzealous cleaning/microbial imbalance that leads to overgrowth of yeast. A child's genitals-male or female-don't typically get sore and swollen from fiddling. In the case of a boy, if his foreskin is not retractible it means his foreskin is still adhered to the glans and/or the tip of the foreskin (the preputial sphincter) is still tight/snug. Either way, the natural design of these two protective functions keeps dirt/germs out, and every time he urinates the foreskin gets flushed with sterile fluid.
I would rather have my son circumcised at an early age rather then him need to get one due to medical reasons at an older age where he remembers more and is in more pain. Each to their own at the end of the day
The chances of a boy *ever* needing to be circumcised for medical reasons is just 1% (http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm).
Conversely, the chance of a circumcised boy experiencing penile adhesions (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10893633&dopt=Abstract) (circumcision's most common complication) is 71%, the chance of him aquiring meatal stenosis (http://www.emedicine.com/ped/topic2356.htm) (usually requiring surgical correction) is 10%, the possibility of him needing a revision for a botched job (http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm) is 1%.
Jen
A reminder that the OP is requesting information on the type of anaesthetic used during circumcision. General circumcision discussions can take place on another thread (or feel free to start one).
Cheers
imamummy
11-06-2007, 17:47
While I know that a lot of mothers don't agree with circumcision (including my mother) I got my son done at 5 wks as it was the one thing that my husband put his foot down with. We were with him the whole time- wouldn't have been outside listening- no way.
I would have to say that we were more upset than what he. He was given a bit of gel on the penis and a dose of panadol and then we were told to feed him until we were called back in 1/2 an hour later. He was then given a needle in the penis that I think numbed it a bit- then the procedure was done. He cried but he has cried more over lesser things.
He had finished crying when we walked out- like nothing had happened. It was totally forgotten about the following morning- he was done at 6 the night before.
I would have to say that if we had another boy I would have second thoughts, but I don't feel like the awful mother that some people make me feel like I should.
Several more off topic posts have been deleted.
The OP has posted this thread to ask what anaesthetic is used to circumcisions. Please do not hijack it with general circ discussion / debate. Unless anyone has anything further to add that relates to anaesthetic, this thread will be closed.
Cheers
My son was done @ 2 weeks.
My doctor wont do circ's over 3 weeks of age unless really needed.
Caiden was given NO anesthetic at all....Sure he cried but im sure that was only because he was STARVING! Because he was screaming in the waiting room. (I was told not to feed him before his appointment,6 hours between feeds is a long time for a 2 weeks old baby)
The doctor told me to give him panadol every 4 hours and also warned me that the first *wee* would sting a little bit.
Once it was done and he had his bottle he slept for his normal sleep and did a bit of a whimper on the way home when he wee'd.
The chances of a boy *ever* needing to be circumcised for medical reasons is just 1% (http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm).
Well i know 3 of them 1%... A 6 year old,a 14 year old and a 19 year old.
Caiden Jack
1.5.07
7 weeks today!
SalTheGal
19-06-2007, 11:40
Not all babies are strapped to a 'circumstraint'. My boy wasn't :no: I find this generalisation, that all babies are strapped down while unfamiliar drs 'cut' them, to be very disturbing and misleading.
My son was circumcised using the Plastibell method, and was given a numbing gel to the area before the procedure was performed. He started crying as soon as he was unwrapped. He was 4-5 weeks old.
How do I know he wasn't strapped down? Because I was there the whole time and held him myself.
As I said, he cried as soon as he was unwrapped, but stopped as soon as he was wrapped again. He then had a feed and slept for his normal time.
No, in answer to the OP's question, I don't believe my son was in shock. Nor do I believe he experienced any great amount of pain. He was not cut. There was no blood, no scalpel, no ******** circumstraint, and he WAS given a form of anaesthesia.
Thankyou so much for sharing your story!! I think it is great that we can get feedback from someone who was actually present during the procedure. Rather than all the speculation that so often goes on.
In answer to OP, my son was done at 5wks, the area was rubbed with emla (the anaesthetic cream) before hand, then a local was given at the time. He was calm before hand, and calm after wards. He was his normal smily self, certianly did not seem to be "in shock" and in the days that followed I had no reason to beleive that he was in pain. And as a previuos poster said- I think I know my son well enough to know if he is in pain or not.
And in relation to some of the comments from Jen (mothernurture), do you get your information from studies found on the web? And how much of it relates to the current practice of plastibell- which is much different to traditional "cutting" methods, (which incidently doing my own research I can find very little information relating specifically to plastibell)
My DS was not held down in a constraint, and I also could have been wiith him, I chose not to be.
I work in the pharmaceutical industry and know all to well that studies can be skewed to give the results you require. Every researcher does it, a common practice is to continue to increase numbers of patients in studies until you get the proportionate result you are looking for.
Not having a go, everyone is entitled to their opinions, just putting it out there that until you have been personally involved it is hard to make judgement, not on the rights or wrongs, but on what actually occurs. :)
MotherNurture
20-06-2007, 06:00
Caiden was given NO anesthetic at all....Sure he cried but im sure that was only because he was STARVING! Because he was screaming in the waiting room. (I was told not to feed him before his appointment,6 hours between feeds is a long time for a 2 weeks old baby)
Pediatric organizations recommend anesthetic. The AAP says, "There is considerable evidence that newborns who are circumcised without analgesia experience pain and physiologic stress. Neonatal physiologic responses to circumcision pain include changes in heart rate, blood pressure, oxygen saturation, and cortisol levels.36-39 One report has noted that circumcised infants exhibit a stronger pain response to subsequent routine immunization than do uncircumcised infants.40"
Newborns are absolutely capable of feeling pain.
Circumcision is surgery on a very sensitive area of the body.
When babies are born, the foreskin is attached-literally fused-to the head of the baby's penis like your fingernail is attached to your nail. One of the first steps of infant circumcision is forcefully separating the two structures with a blunt probe or scissors. Then there's stretching, clamping, cutting, etc.
The doctor told me to give him panadol every 4 hours and also warned me that the first *wee* would sting a little bit.
Yes. Until a scab forms, he's urinating into an open wound. Women who have had tearing or an episiotomy know how that feels...
The chances of a boy *ever* needing to be circumcised for medical reasons is just 1% (http://www.caringforkids.cps.ca/babies/Circumcision.htm).
Well i know 3 of them 1%... A 6 year old,a 14 year old and a 19 year old.
Most later circumcisions we hear about aren't really medically necessary. The thread on phimosis (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=70500) explains more about how common false diagnosis/unnecessary circumcision is.
And in relation to some of the comments from Jen (mothernurture), do you get your information from studies found on the web? And how much of it relates to the current practice of plastibell- which is much different to traditional "cutting" methods, (which incidently doing my own research I can find very little information relating specifically to plastibell)
The answer to your question is both, as well as personal experience assisting with newborn circumcisions. I'm familiar with all three medical methods-gomco, mogen,& plastibell. It's a myth that the plastibell method doesn't require cutting or that it's any kinder or gentler than the other types of clamps. Plastibell is known for producing 'looser' circumcisions, which is a benefit because it removes less sensitive skin but also increases the risk of adhesions. Plastibell is also associated with a risk of necrotizing fasciitis; google "plastibell necrotizing fasciitis" for more (extremely graphic) info.
There's an info thread on the plastibell method, here (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=69138). Also the recent circumcision death story (http://www.bubhub.com.au/community/forums/showthread.php?t=98734) from Canada involved the plastibell method.
Jen
prideNJoy
20-06-2007, 09:25
tjfaz85, Im glad to hear it went smoothly. Hope it heals up nice and quickly for you little man. :)
Rainbowbrite
20-06-2007, 09:28
Thanks for sharing your story tjfaz85. Big :hugs: to you all :hugs:
Can I ask, (feel free to PM me instead of posting) why he was only just done? I don't tend to read these threads much.
WeloveHarriet
20-06-2007, 10:20
Our son is booked in for this Friday at midday for his plastibell operation. Our Doctor is very highly thought of in Newcastle and will be operating at the private hospital where DS was born 4wks ago.
He too will have the numbing cream applied then some panadol then anesthetic will be injected.
I have spoken to a number of people regarding this operation plus read these links which makes me feel more prepared for what occurs.
Thank you for your experiences.
Rainbowbrite
20-06-2007, 11:21
Thanks for that.
I was just curious, and if I have a sone he will more than likely be done also. No judgement from me at all, we all do whats best for our families :hugs:
Goodness, I am freaking out...I have been taking my 2 yr old son to a developmental Paediatrician for a couple of issues and they did a physical exam on him. The paed then went on to tell my husband and I that our sons foreskin is way to tight and he doesn't think steriod cream will loosen and we most likely will have to get him circumcised. We have an appointment with a paediatric urologist in a couple of weeks. I am deeply upset and concerned for this as my baby doesn't need this in his life. I just hope and pray that it is not too traumatic and am scared to hear about them going in to shock etc. You think you are making the right decision and then it is taken out of your hands and we cannot help it.
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