immunisation fors and against [Archive] - Bub Hub Pregnancy & Parenting Forum

noniandlilysmum

06-01-2006, 17:40

I have recently had many conversations with people about whether to immunise or not, the facts basically... The thing is where do I start my research... I have 3 children, my 2 older ones were immunised and were both fine, however the immunisations have changed over the last couple of years and I am wondering what the hell they are putting into our kids bodies... I know this is a very personal decision, but would really appreciate both sides argument... haana:D

Lunar

06-01-2006, 17:54

I am so for immunisation.
I really do think that it is important. The infectious diseases are getting worse and immunisation helps to stop big outbreaks and more importantly deaths. Yes babies and children do die from diseases that are included in the immunisation program. I know that it is a personal choice, but as your child gets older and the times comes when you want to put him/her into pre-school or day care you have to have all their immunisations up to date otherwise it is very difficult for them to be accepted.
Anyways there's my 2 bits.

06-01-2006, 18:08

Actually, your child CANNOT be excluded from childcare or school due to non-vaxing, all you need is a conscientious objectors form which you fill out and have signed by a doctor.

This is a REALLY good book on the vax debate

'What your doctor may not tell you about childrens vaccinations' - Stephanie Cave

DEFINITELY read it!!

saqqara

06-01-2006, 18:19

one of the best places to start, in my opinion, is with Immunise Australia and the pdf you can download from the site.

http://www.immunise.health.gov.au/

obviously they are VERY pro immunisation, however included in their documentation is a list of the many anti-immunisation arguments, and their responses. this will probably save you tons of time sifting through all the information you can get on this topic.

one of the things i found when researching this for myself (which i did twice, before each baby) is that there is a lot of mis information being thrown around. I suggest you don't take anything as 'fact', and check from the source, if you can (one example i can think of is that a few sites claimed that 'Poisons Information Australia' stated that formaldehyde, an ingredient in a couple of the vaccines, was toxic at any level. I rang both the QLD and NSW offices, as well as QLD Health, and they said the information was wrong).

Good luck in your search, you will most probably have a lot of reading to do, and I hope you come to a conclusion you are happy with :)

saqqara
DD1 (4)
DD2 (6mo)

SugarBlossom

06-01-2006, 18:43

I don't immunise as I don't beleive in injecting a LIVE illness into my child and I also beleive that you can build your immune system with food and healthy choices to be just as strong and resilient as a vaccine.

But I also beleive in choice and if you immunise thats your decision and please don't disrespect mine!:)

prideNJoy

26-02-2007, 10:30

Hi There,

I have found that the problem with any website or info that is from the government re: Vaccinations is that it is all biased and alot of the info and data they have is done by none of other than the pharmaceutical compaines that make the Vaccines themselves. So if your wanting to find info on pro-vacc i think it's best to steer clear of any gov based info...on the other hand good luck trying to find anything! that should tell you something in itself.

Mel

Alisonp

27-02-2007, 19:23

Mel - Did you realise that the vaccines that are part of the immunisation program in Aus are all regulated by the TGA? The safety of vaccines is heavily regulated and everything the manufacturers do is overseen and ultimately approved by the government inspectors.

The gov web sites are provided for everyone's information - they are not biased - they are just based on the facts.

If you are looking for biased opinion pieces you may as well keep to the anti-vax sites :devil6:

stellarella

27-02-2007, 19:32

There are lots of other threads with links to sites, research etc. If you just check out all the past immunisation threads you will find lots of info.

Looking at goverment sites for information is effectively looking at only one side of the argument...so read the government info, and THEN read something from the other side...

It is the ONLY way to get a balanced view as the Gov sites are FAR FAR from balanced.

bigglet

27-02-2007, 20:18

The live virus (some vaccines are and some aren't) are actually so minute in comparison to the real deal that your body is designed to build up immunity so you don't have to suffer from the disease should you be unfortunate to catch it. And sometimes it is not the disease that can kill you but because your immune system has been compromised by fighting against it - it is secondary infections or another disease that usually brings you down.

I have a friend whose daughter caught the measles and suffered a secondary infection from it making her very very ill. She is still very weak and probably always will be - my friend is kicking herself for not immunising, sure there may be risks with immunisation (as with everything in life) but knowing there was a vaccine available to prevent this from happening was hard.

I personally think our current lifestyles and environments are a lot more of a threat with preservatives, chemicals and toxins in what we eat and put on our bodies. Even fresh fruit and veges are not full of nutrients as they once were centuries ago - unless you go full organic everything.

I do think the reason why we are lucky to have a decrease in diseases such as polio, measles, mumps rubella etc is because of herd immunity. I actually have a friend who is anti-vax and does rely on herd immunity in hopes that her children will not contract any communicable diseases. :rolleyes:

I personally don't think we will sway anyone's opinions - anti vax or pro vax we believe what we wish to believe. :o

the_queen

27-02-2007, 20:20

I thank indoor plumbing, clean water, and organised rubbish removal for the reduced rates of communicable diseases :)

Alisonp

27-02-2007, 20:24

Somehow I don't think plumbing, clean water and rubbish removal have anything to do with lower rates of whooping cough, eradication of polio from australia, the eradication of smallpox from the earth...the list goes on and on.

Three cheers for herd immunity ...hooorahh!!...hooorahh!!...hooorahh!!! :smiliedance:

Sorry couldn't resist :devil6:

shed

27-02-2007, 21:49

I am also a huge fan of herd immunity. I believe strongly in vaccination - for other people's children.

Thanks to herd immunity I feel confident in my decision to delay vaxing my child until his little body is much much bigger.

So a big thanks to all the vaxxers, keep up the good work :thumbsup:

prideNJoy

27-02-2007, 22:29

Ffrenchknickers

27-02-2007, 22:30

lol...........

3boys1girl

28-02-2007, 10:12

I thank indoor plumbing, clean water, and organised rubbish removal for the reduced rates of communicable diseases :)

The rate of dieases has gone down because of vaccinating. All clean water ,plumbing etc has done has reduced the rate of gastro being passed and other water type bacteria. Vaccinations such as Polio has stop the spread because most people have vaccinated and the people who choose not to vaccinate are covered by "herd vaccination" as shed put it. If we all stopped Vaccinating against Polio you would find that it would eventually (might take a while) but it would come back. So thanks to the vaccinatiors the non vaccinaotrs are covered, but are still at risk of getting these dieases. I know I would rather vaccinate my kids and reduce that risk than see my child get one of these nasty dieases that are still around, but just not as much as they used to be.
Not all vaccinations are LIVE and some are made from Chicken eggs. There are reactions from the vaccinations from immunisations but they are few and far between. In 3 years of working as a GP nurse and giving these vaccinations I only ever saw Localised reactions such as redness in the arm. Never did we have one pt come back and tell us that their child suffered massive reactions. I know work on the Peads ward at the local hospital and see children come in with whooping cough and other infectious dieases and they wernt vaccinated and the poor child is so sick and is so worn out that they have trouble breathing, it really is very heartbreaking to see them like that when it could have been prevented.
As u can tell I am pro immuisations, but I also respect the non vaxers in their decision as it is their child and its up to them to make that decision. Just Please do your research and dont take this decision lightly as it can affect your child for the rest of their life

Thats my two cents worth:p

agape

28-02-2007, 11:50

I belive in Vaccinations, i have done a thorough research and still came to and understanding that yes i would do it.

Ffrenchknickers

28-02-2007, 14:52

ABsolutely...we spent countless hours reading, thinking, praying before we came to our decision not to:yes:...and its one we constantly review too.

tickle

28-02-2007, 15:16

I've just cleared out a lot of posts from this thread.
Please keep things on topic and most importantly nice!
Thanks all.

kiwibird27

28-02-2007, 15:37

I am totally for immunisations. I think a few deaths or sicknesses occasionally from an odd vaccination is better than a whole community coming down with Polio or Hib.

No doubt a few people with bubhub bash me now but I cannot believe anyone would choose not to.

The reason why so many unvaxed kids don't get these illnesses is cause the majority of the community is vaxed therefore reducing the risk to them. I there was a serious outbreak we would see what would happen then.

Africamum

28-02-2007, 22:08

I am pro vax.
Although in Africa I am following the Australian Schedule with several others added because of my loction.
It has actaully been quiet difficult to obtain some on the vaccines, we have had to get some flown up from South Africa. The two doctors both Tanzanian can not believe how fortunate we are in Australia the government pays to immunise children for the range the we get and yet we are more furtunate because we have a degree of herd immunity which affords us choice.

Here, I do not have the luxury of herd immunity. I live 7km from a village of 5,000 - 10,000 people that only get vaccinated for the basics. The nearest public medical center is 25km away and there are no cars in the village, occasionally a medical professional does vaccines for the village children but very rarely.

Children here do die of diseases that are for the most part preventable.

I am glad that in Australia we are fortunate enough to be able to have the debate and have a choice.

Angelmist♥

28-02-2007, 22:21

After doing a lot of research and from personal experience, I'm definitely Pro-vax.

I'm still kicking myself I didn't get my DS's vaxed for chicken pox.I thought it was a fairly normal, 'no worries' disease that children get, thanks to numerous anti-vax sites:no:.

01-03-2007, 02:07

What were your childrens reactions to Chicken Pox?

Pippi Longstocking

01-03-2007, 06:24

Here, I do not have the luxury of herd immunity. I live 7km from a village of 5,000 - 10,000 people that only get vaccinated for the basics. The nearest public medical center is 25km away and there are no cars in the village, occasionally a medical professional does vaccines for the village children but very rarely.

Children here do die of diseases that are for the most part preventable.

I am glad that in Australia we are fortunate enough to be able to have the debate and have a choice.

In your situation, I would definitely reassess my decision to leave my daughter unvaccinated. For me, it is all about risk assessment. And yes, I do believe that herd immunity gives me that choice so thank you provaccers! :thumbsup:
If we were taking Shine out of the country and felt that she would be at greater risk of contracting a disease than the risk the vaccine posses, we would vaccinate. I would wait until she was two though - I want her immune system to have a chance to do it's thing first.
I am not anti vax at all. I am pro education. I think that everyone needs to do their research, whether they are pro vax or anti.

Seekrit

01-03-2007, 06:46

I'm pro-vax.
The problem with vax is that people are either SO FOR or SO AGAINST that it's incredibly hard to find a non-biased website with information.

Angelmist♥

01-03-2007, 08:00

What were your childrens reactions to Chicken Pox?

The actual chicken pox was like I remembered as a child, not really all that much of a worry. Headaches, body aches, constant itching and flu-like symptoms.

Then only a few months ago, DS2 came up with shingles.I have learnt now that shingles is not caused by lower immunity (before it's suggested) and not just an 'older' person problem.He had severe headaches, could hardly move, sobbed if sometime touched him, vomiting:ecomcity:

Then he contracted a 'staph' infection in his last sore so an unbearable 2 wks turned into an even worse 3 wks.

It may sound 'trivial' to some people but there is no way I ever want to see another child go through what he's been through.And that was supposedly from just having chicken pox.

Sheer Bliss

01-03-2007, 08:23

Seekrit

01-03-2007, 08:39

:yelclap: Love comments like this!

personally I hate comments like that.. people taking a free ride :p

(you know I love you Shed.) :p

3boys1girl

01-03-2007, 09:47

personally I hate comments like that.. people taking a free ride :p

Agree here

stellarella

01-03-2007, 09:58

~rambox~

01-03-2007, 10:03

I choose to immunise as i hate seeing my kids sick and i dont want to see them in hospital with something that i could have prevented :thumbsup:

RedPanda

01-03-2007, 11:14

I am not anti vax at all. I am pro education. I think that everyone needs to do their research, whether they are pro vax or anti.

Well said. This is the kind of fair, non-inflammatory comment that I love!! We've researched and our son is vaxed. I'm still undecided on chicken pox. I believe so much comes down to personal experience. My mother is deaf due to the measles, and I have had meningitis, so I am pro-vax for those conditions. However, I can also completely understand when people choose not to vaccinate for these illnesses.

Sometimes I get disheartened. I have a friend whose child got pertussis despite having had a vaccination, however on the whole, I am comfortable with my decision, and I do my best not to run down others for their decision.

Alisonp

01-03-2007, 11:58

The thing is....90% of the population is very happy to vaccinate their children and choose to vaccinate. They are not being noble and doing it for the sake of herd immunity. They believe it is the best thing for thier children and are more than happy to do it.

10% (figures only for the purpose of this post, not accurate) of the population doesnt want to and believe they are doing the best thing for their kids.

I dont actually thank pro-vaxers because they are not doing it for my kids they are doing it for their own...

Anyway I get it shed...3 cheers for vaxers.:yelclap:

I agree with your assessment - I think most poeple who vax do so to protect their own children. I would say that pretty much includes me....but at the same time it is an extra bonus that by vaccinating my daughter I might be helping out a child who hasn't been vaccinated or who hasn't responded to the vaccine.

I think the genuine anti-vax percentage of the population is around 5% (I think I read it somewhere) but there is another 5% or so of parents who don't vaccinate because they are lost to the system either through uncontactable, disinterested, agoraphobics etc.

RedPanda

01-03-2007, 18:11

I agree with your assessment - I think most poeple who vax do so to protect their own children.

Yep, I agree. But I'm guessing the thanking of vaccers by Shed and Stella is pretty tongue in cheek (cheeky girls :p )

mumofcaleb

01-03-2007, 18:22

I choose to immunise

theycallmemum

01-03-2007, 18:34

[quote=kiwibird27;1165020]I am totally for immunisations. I think a few deaths or sicknesses occasionally from an odd vaccination is better than a whole community coming down with Polio or Hib.

No doubt a few people with bubhub bash me now but I cannot believe anyone would choose not to. quote]

I think that is the most horrible thing to say. Imagine if it where your child that died after an immunisation, would you still feel the same way?

shed

01-03-2007, 20:50

personally I hate comments like that.. people taking a free ride :p

(you know I love you Shed.) :p

I know I know, it IS a free ride, i am aware of that. But the way I see it is that I can only make decisions for ONE kid, its up to other people to make decisions for their one too. So I have no control over what others do, I can take advantage of it if it suits my decision (which I am) but I can't control it.

Besides that, its only a free ride for a year or so, not forever. So 'ride on an IOU' rather than free ride in this case :D

Alisonp

02-03-2007, 11:29

Yep, I agree. But I'm guessing the thanking of vaccers by Shed and Stella is pretty tongue in cheek (cheeky girls :p )

Really?? :eek: Surely not! :rolleyes:

Alisonp

02-03-2007, 11:34

I know I know, it IS a free ride, i am aware of that. But the way I see it is that I can only make decisions for ONE kid, its up to other people to make decisions for their one too. So I have no control over what others do, I can take advantage of it if it suits my decision (which I am) but I can't control it.

Besides that, its only a free ride for a year or so, not forever. So 'ride on an IOU' rather than free ride in this case :D

Ride away....I just hope the ticket inspectors don't jump on board when you aren't expecting them :( Might be too late then to pay your fare.

Edit to add : I honestly would not wish this to happen to anyone - I'm not the kind of person to say I told you so.

RedPanda

02-03-2007, 15:34

Really?? Surely not! :rolleyes:

I'm sorry Alisonp - I didn't mean to state the obvious, but I just had an overwhelming urge to stick my cyber-tongue out :p .

The rolly-eye man isn't for me is it?:crying: I hate it when the rolly-eye man gets whipped out for me!:o

Sorry again - I didn't really mean to imply that you really thought you were being thanked - I give you more credit than that

shed

02-03-2007, 17:54

Ride away....I just hope the ticket inspectors don't jump on board when you aren't expecting them :( Might be too late then to pay your fare.

I am happy with our choice and if there is an outbreak we will be first in line at the docs.

Thats the whole point really, weighing up the risks. I mean, people can vax against everything, but they don't, - because they don't think their kid is going to catch it. And that's how I feel about the schedule. AT THIS POINT.

We are not anti-vax, we are non-vax for the moment.

I would be more p!ssed off if we DID get him vaxed and he caught something he had been vaxed against. And that happens. I think I am more vigilant about looking out for the ticket inspectors because he isn't vaxed - I know I have to be.