OUCH not attaching properly

[Rainbowbrite]

As most of you know MJ has been giving me a bit of greif lately with the boob & now its gotten so bad i'm in tears whilst feeding her :eek:

She refuses to attach properly. I've tried different positions, taking her off & trying again but nothing is working. Basically she wont take a mouth full, all she's doing is taking in the nipple nothing else. Its like she cant handle the feeling of it all being in her mouth. If I try to push her in closer she pulls back even more stretching it.

Is there anything I can do to ease the pain & teach her how to attach again? I used to use a sheild in the beginning, should I maybe get that back out?

I went to the clinic this morning & saw a LC and she just told me not to offer the breast unless MJ is actively looking for it or just before offering her solids, which I thought I was doing with demand feeding. The only thing i'm getting from "friends & family" is to give her a bottle :eek:

I'll be going back up tomorrow to the breast feeding support drop in but really need help now.

Please help me.

RB

[OM]

I am not too sure if I can offer much in the way of help, maybe JanetF is online, (cross fingers) she surely will be able to help.

But in the meantime if your bub keeps just taking in the nipple only, just try unattaching her then put her back on until she finally takes a good mouthful, that is my only suggestion at the moment I am sorry.

By the way I don't think the shield is the way to go if she is having trouble attaching as I don't think it will correct the problem only make it worse, someone correct me if I am wrong about this.

[kimmy]

I use to tease Chloe wit my nipple until her mouth was big & wide then i quickly put her on. maybe you have already tried this.
I hope all works out for you just keep trying & don't stress i will happen.

[Rainbowbrite]

I've tried teasing & re-attaching but its not working. She's 7.5months old & had it down pat. I dont know where i've gone wrong :(

RB

[OM]

Honestly I don't think you have done anything wrong at all.

I guess persistance is the key. As I said the only thing I could recommend is to keep unattaching eventually she has to give in and open her mouth wide.

Perhaps as a long shot I squirt as a game milk into DS's mouth and he opens his mouth wide when I do to catch the milk for fun what if you tried that then put your breast in her mouth then when the mouth is really wide. It works for me to make DS open his mouth wide but not sure if your little one would do the same.

[kimmy]

I've heard of this staff called wool-wax which will toughen up you nipples. that mite help with the pain you can get it at the pharmacy.
Wish i could help more.:(

[kimmy]

Yeah i don't think you have done anything wrong at all.

[wattle]

Tell hubby to drop everything and get a tube of Lansinoh. It's the bees knees when it comes to sore nipples.

I'd highly consider getting another lactation consultant. I had a lot of trouble when ds was small (different situation I know), but I went to the breastfeeding clinic, the ABA, the maternal health nurse and they ALL just kept saying "Keep persisting, you'll eventually get there".

Finally out of sheer desperation (and many many tears later) I called a lac consultant, she came to my home and in 5 minutes had it sorted!!! I had a really fast letdown and it was flooding into ds's mouth and scaring him. Poor ds. She showed me what to do to fix it. That was the best $60 I ever spent.

Perhaps there is a simple solution for you too, fingers crossed that you find it, and for MJ too.

[JanetF]

What crappy advice! I really think another LC is in order until you get some helpful advice not rubbish! She's basically telling you stuff that would wean your 7 1/5 month old baby! And your local ABA is only a 24 hour a day phone call away so ring the helpline right now and talk to someone. You both deserve better than that. You'll be fine *hugs* What a lucky babe MJ is that you're so committed to her health and wellbeing.
This is the hotline:
http://breastfeeding.asn.au/products/counselling.asp

[OM]

Ugh why didn't I think of that, they were great for me when I had troubles with breastfeeding.

Let us know what they say! :)

[Rainbowbrite]

Well I just got off the phone to them & didnt get much help unfortunately. All she said is that its normal for babies her age to get distracted during feeding & to refuse the breast. Not what I wanted to hear at all :( Like the clinic, she told me to wait till she's really hungry :confused: Apparently its normal and ok if she doesnt drink as much now. Its been over 35 degrees here so i understand that she's hot.

Oh well, another night of pain & we'll see how we go tomorrow at the bf support drop-in clinic. Might go give her a sleep feed now & see if her being asleep will make her attach a little better.

Wish me luck :)
RB

[OM]

I am sorry to hear that you didn't get the advice that you were after. Hope the dream feeding tonight is pain free for you.

:) Hang in there, you are doing great.

[Crazy Monkey]

All the best RB...
I hope things get better for you soon.
Good luck tomorrow
Silla

[JanetF]

Hang in there, RB *hugs* You're doing such a brilliant job! SOunds like no one is really listening to you yet - you'll find the perfect answer, I promise! You have my guarantee ;)

[xkwzit]

Hi Rainbowbrite
I reckon looking for a new lactation consultant is the way to go and keep trying different ones until one gels for you. In the short term, have you tried going back onto nipple shields (only as a short term option to get you to your LC). She might not take it, but anything that gets you through until you have the answers that you need is great.

Cheers

[JanetF]

I'll pile some stuff up here for you and hope something clicks. :)

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/older-baby/biting.html
Americans call "attachment" "latching" (just so's you can translate for yourself)
http://www.kellymom.com/newman/03a-sore_nipples.html#proper
http://www.kellymom.com/bf/start/basics/latch-resources.html - really good pics and diagrams and even an animation!

[Rainbowbrite]

Thanks so much for those links :) I'll be sure to have a look tomorrow.

Just heard her awake so ran in (as I do) & popped her on while she was half asleep & SUCCESS :D Just fed her from both sides while she dozed with alot less pain. Still tender but not the stabbing, burning that i was experiencing.

What I might do tomorrow (please let me know if this is a good or bad idea) is offer it to her like I normally do, and if she wont attach properly then let her go back to what she was doing & re-try after 10minutes. I dont want my supply to drop at all as I REALLY want to keep bf for atleast another 12months.

Thanks again for all your help.
RB

[OM]

Stabbing and burning pain....................that dosn't sound like an attachment problem to me! :confused: That sounds like something else.

Though it could be!

[Rainbowbrite]

Stabbing and burning pain....................that dosn't sound like an attachment problem to me! :confused: That sounds like something else.

Though it could be!

Thats what I was worried about too but its been checked out & there's no other cause such as thrush etc. Just her not attaching. Probably just the joys of having overly sensative skin :rolleyes:

RB

[xkwzit]

Hi Rainbowbrite
It sounded a lot like thrush to me too, but if you've had it checked out (and you've just fed with no pain) I guess its not.

The trouble with an incorrect attachment (I think, some one a bit more knowledgable can correct me if I'm wrong), is that she won't be stimulating you adequately to remove as much the milk and hence your supply *may* drop if she's not attaching properly. So I do think it best to try to get her on right (but I realise that she may not cooperate:D ).

I wonder if there's another reason? Has she a blocked nose or is she trying to slow a forceful let down? You can try squirting BM (or a saline solution) up her nose if its blocked or expressing off a bit before you attach her. I still remember my babies swallowing like troopers to cope with my letdown and I could see when they were losing - they'd come off and milk would spray EVERYWHERE:D . That only really happened when they were young though.

Best of luck

[Goosie22]

Have you tried feeding in the bath or maybe in the pool? I had problems with my second son who wasn't a committed feeder and that is what got him back on track, it was suggested to me by a LC friend and each time he had a relapse I would go out to the pool or run the bath and that fixed him. Worth a try?

[Rainbowbrite]

Nope, no blocked nose xkwzit & when I saw the LC Thrush was the first thing she checked for. There is no redness anywhere but on the nipple itself. And thanks for the pool/bath idea Goosie22, I've heard that before. But can you tell me why & what it does? I'm confused as to what difference it would make.

Ok well today has been a mixed bag. When she attaches properly & takes a big mouthful its totally painless, BUT if she doesn't then boy do I feel the difference :eek: It really feels like it did when I first started bf. Brought back very painful memories that i'd rather not have re-lived. Though it did make me realise how good it is when she attached properly :)

Thanks again for all your advice. BF is such a wonderful thing, i'm so proud that we stuck it out.

RB

[Crazy Monkey]

Haven't heard of the feedng in a pool/bath before.. would be interested in reading more about that...

DS has been a little fussy at his feeds lately and my right breast is a bit tender at the moment.. I dont think the problem is his attachment but more so the pulling (both with his mouth and his hands) on the breast during feeds..

Hope things are sorted out for you soon RB..

[Rainbowbrite]

DS has been a little fussy at his feeds lately and my right breast is a bit tender at the moment.. I dont think the problem is his attachment but more so the pulling (both with his mouth and his hands) on the breast during feeds..

Does Jack pull with his mouth & push with his hands during the feed? If so thats what MJ was doing before.

Things seem to be looking up now though, hopefully it was just her going through a fussy stage :rolleyes:

RB

[Goosie22]

The pool or bath idea is supposed to be a relaxation type situation. They are supposed to feel the need for comfort more as it is an unfamiliar situation. You need to do it quietly without a million other people around splashing.

I would also try pushing him between his shoulder blades as he attaches to make his chin thrust forward a little thus making him take a bigger mouthful of breast tissue this will make it harder for him to cause any damage.

[Crazy Monkey]

Does Jack pull with his mouth & push with his hands during the feed? If so thats what MJ was doing before.

Things seem to be looking up now though, hopefully it was just her going through a fussy stage :rolleyes:

RB

Thats exactly what Jack is doing... (must have something to do with their birthday...LOL) He does it to both sides but only the right is sensitive... Thought it might have something to do with no having enough milk for him, but he has had 7 feeds toay plus solids and water and was still doing it this evening... and then I got my period, maybe thats it.. I dont know...

[matty's mum]

Still tender but not the stabbing, burning that i was experiencing.RB

has anyone suggested Vaso Spasm this is often caused from nipple trauma and also bad blood circulation. my feet are cold even in summer but I think I had it from the nipple truma.

It feels very much like thrush and is often confused with it and not often diagnosed.
It feels like stabbing burning feeling like thrush the difference, I noticed was that the pain didn't enter as deep into the breast. Also when you feel the pain if you look at your nipple it will be white in colour drained of blood supply then it very quickly turns back to a pink or red colour as the blood flows back. You have to be quick to see the changes.

My DS started pulling and tugging at my breasts. It started when my supply settled down as he was not getting the milk as quickly, I would express off a bit until my let down then attach him he eventually got used to the slower let down. Good luck

Also when the Spasms happen while bub is feeding there milk supply stops as the milk cant flow out the nipple as it contracts so they become very frustrated.

[Rainbowbrite]

Thanks for that Matty's mum, thats spot on. I have noticed that when they are sore that my nipple is white. Now i know i didnt imagine it.

Its been a lot better lately, I find that if i take her off if she mucks up then try again later she's alot better. Though i did notice this morning that my nipple was peeling a little so more proof about her not attaching properly.

Thanks again for all you help. Hope everyone else who has had problems improves too :)

RB

[xkwzit]

Hi Matty's Mum

Wow, you are a wise woman :D , sounds like you have the solution. Can something be done about it?

Cheers

[matty's mum]

Deleted at Matty's mum's request

[matty's mum]

Hi xkwzit,

I don’t know about wise, I think I have had just about everything bad you can have while breastfeeding. I still managed to breastfeed for 22mths until DS self weaned while I was pregnant.:)

No there’s not a lot you can do. If the spasms are caused from the cold and bad blood circulation, keeping the WHOLE body warm can help some mums. I would sometimes find relieve while in the shower, but as soon as you get out even if the air has been warmed by heating it's cooler than the water and I would get the spasms straight away. When I rugged up to the point of being uncomfortable socks and all. I did think that I had less of them.

I first had pain while pregnant with 3rd baby, then with so much trauma to my nipples it continued. I didn't know I had it until speaking with a Lactation Consultant over the phone as I live in the country, she's in Brisbane. She was helping me manage thrush that wouldn't go away.

We discovered I had thrush, Vaso Spasms and dermatitis, Dermatitis from gel and cream to clear the thrush. Also another thing I had which you don't hear a lot about is irritation to the nipples while baby is teething, this hurts as much as dermatitis you can't feed though it it's so bad feels like acid burning the skin away. it only stops by washing nipples in EBM, just adding this to help others if they read this thread and have burning nipples it has to really fell like acid, not the burning from thrush.

Sorry off track, bad attachment is a cause of it to. Once your baby is attaching correctly the spasms can go. We never had good attachment, my breast shape but after not being able to feed my first two babies I was very determined and felt that the pain was worth the experience and everything else the we love about breastfeeding and cant explain.

It is similar to Raynaud’s Phenomenon But with this disorder they don’t mention the nipples only the Nose, fingers, ears and toes I’ will try to add a link to there site if your interested in reading how it effects the blood vessel. If it doesn’t work you can Google search it and Vaso Spasms. http://www.niams.nih.gov/hi/topics/raynaud/ar125fs.htm#1

Looks the right blue colour.

I was told to use heat packs but by the time you heat them the spasms over , so really just learning how to cope with them. Not letting them get you down, it is really painful if you have had thrush it’s close not much difference. Hope I answered your question sorry I’m all over the place. :)

All the best cathy

[matty's mum]

Fixed for you cathy :)

[xkwzit]

Hi Matty's Mum
Thanks for that, I had never heard of this and was wondering how you coped with it. Thanks for sharing your information with us, I've certainly learnt something and I am sure that it will be helpful for a range of ppl.

Cheers