??training your child

[Goosie22]

http://www.stoptherod.net/ttuac.html

:mad: This is not a jolk, it is an actual book available via Amazon.

the reason I posted this is so you can have a chance to put your name to the pettion to have the authorities look into these people.

[Mamaduke]

Thank you for that info!
I was horrified to read what this couple were/are doing.
I have left a review of this book on the Amazon website and sent Amazon feedback saying I don't think that it's appropriate to be selling books of this nature.
I am shocked...

[the_queen]

Hi Goosie,

Can I just quote that site, one particular part brought tears to my eyes.... How can anyone do this to any child!!


6) On p.46 the Pearls say that if a child does obey before being whipped, whip them anyway. And "if you have to sit on him to spank him, then do not hesitate. And hold him there until he is surrendered. Prove that you are bigger, tougher." "Defeat him totally." On p.80 they recommend giving a child having a tantrum "a swift *forceful* spanking." On the same page they say to whip small children on their bare skin until they stop screaming. "Don't be bullied. Give him more of the same." They say to continue whipping until their crying turns into a "wounded, submissive whimper."


I was hit as a child, and all it taught me was how to lie to my parents, and how to not get caught doing the wrong thing. Oh, and also, I totally have no respect for my parents at all. Now that I'm a parent myself, I look at my daughter and remember the way I was treated, and I cry, thinking that my parents must have really hated me to do that to me. They didn't beat me, they didn't hit me on the face, technically there was no "abuse", it was all "reasonable" in the eyes of the law etc. God, I'm crying now thinking about it. :( Whenever I'm disciplining my daughter, I always consider "how do I want her to remember me".... coz I know how I remember my mum.

Anyway, thanks Goosie for bringing this to everyone's attention.

[JanetF]

There's been a lot of discussion on Mothering about this couple. Plain scary. Thanks for sharing. :(

[Rockett]

Thats absolutley disgusting!!:mad: :(
How on earth a book like that is being sold is beyond me.:mad:

[Nickster]

Unbelievable - are these people psychopaths?:eek:
I don't understand how any thinking, feeling, empathic person with a bone of sensitivity or love towards their children could take this seriously....:mad:

[AM]

I'm truly amazed that crap is still around, haven't those Pearls books been round forever?
I thought they would be banned books or something by now! :eek:

[JanetF]

The Pearls and the Ezzos are a scourge on humanity. Then there are more than a few Australian "sleep trainers" I'd cheerfully run over or perhaps I could leave them alone in a room to cry in the hope that they'd learn some empathy.

[moonblossom]

I will hold my children when they cry, kiss their grazed knees, smother them with love whenever they need me, or whever I need them. Take them to my bed if they are scared or lonely, sit with them if they feel left out.

The thought of smacking, hitting, striking makes me sick to my stomach. Did they hit their pregnant tummies when the child was too active? Absolutely incredible that people think this is right. They are truly insane.

[melfunction]

I'm lost for words :(

[reAllytee]

Oh my :(
My partner & i watched a show not sure what is was now a few months back & they were talking about a cult that was into spanking newborns if they cried etc :(
I think i got so angry i broke something that day :mad:
I was spanked as a child but nothing & i repeat nothing like that it was only if we truly did something wrong but even then it was only used as a scare tactic as "tough" as my parents were they didnt really believe in it.
Maybe these people need to get whipped by adults & see if they like it ??????

[WeThree]

how is stuff like this allowed to even be published???:mad: :(

[WeThree]

just thought id add, i have left a review of this book on amazon, you know what upsets me as well ? if its not bad enough that a book like that is even being sold, but it is promoted as a Christian book??? those books are nothing but filth:mad:

[reAllytee]

Well there is the whole freedom of speech issue but yeah im sure there must be a way to stop it.
Yep the cult i was talking about claimed themselves to be good christians & this is what a good christian should do to their child etc.
Sad really but then man is the problem when it comes to religion some see a very warped meaning in teachings compared to the majority. Has gone on for centuries & im sure it will do so for however long our species rules this planet.
Hopefully the breeding out of these sorts of people will happen soon ;)

[Goosie22]

this is the EZZO way:mad:

“Because the desire for continual and immediate gratification begins at birth, the need for cultivating self-control in your child also begins at that point,” writes Ezzo in Growing Kids God’s Way (p. 25). Ezzo suggests that demand feeding, (responding to an infants “cues” that he or she is hungry, the method recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics) trains children to expect immediate gratification. In contrast, Ezzo created Parent Directed Feeding (PDF), a routine in which Mom, not baby, decides when baby will “eat, sleep and play.”
One young mother was anxious to get her newborn on Preparation For Parenting’s “eat/play/sleep routine” as soon as she got home from the hospital. Her baby, however, would often remain in the quiet alert state for 2-3 hours after nursing. She regrets that rather than using this as bonding time with her newborn, she felt she had to take control:
“Mom, not baby, determines the nap, so after an hour of being awake, down she went, tired or not. Oh, how she cried! She would go on and on, while my husband and I played the radio and did dishes and wondered what it would take to make her stop being so stubborn. Within a few weeks, we had helped our daughter line up her wake times to be pretty much in keeping with the routine in the book, and I had mostly learned to tune out her fussing. If she cried at sleep time, it was irritating, but I could ignore it, knowing she had to learn who was in control and how to delay gratification.”
Leaving babies to cry if they are “clean and fed” and scheduled to sleep, is one of the most controversial aspects of Ezzo’s teachings. It is also the one that has led to the kind of problems experienced by the Bush family: low weight gain, malnutrition and FTT. The following experience was posted on the www.ezzo.info Web site in March of 2003 by a mother who taught Preparation for Parenting for ten years:
“Our second child was born and became our first ‘prep baby’ (that term which I was so proud of makes me shudder now). She gained weight well until six weeks, and at her well-baby check, the pediatrician suggested I add another feeding as her weight gain had slowed dramatically. I remember thinking, ‘No way!!’ because she was already sleeping through the night (actually, I ignored her cries), and it would go directly against the principles I was using to ‘mold a godly, patient, self-controlled child.’ She cried a lot!
“I remember being so wrung out some days because it was going directly against my mother’s heart to listen to her cries, so I gradually squashed my maternal instinct, and ignored the noise. It makes me weep to recall this. I eventually weaned her at 7 months: she was tiny, but not failure to thrive.”

[JanetF]

I loooooooaaaaaaattttttthhhhhhhheeeeeeee the Ezzos as much as the Pearls. Babies are being admitted to hospital with FTT and dehydration from the crap they teach! It's so simple! It's a baby - feed it, hold it, keep it close. One day it won't need all that any more!

[melfunction]

I just don't understand how these oxygen thieves get their books published :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Nickster]

re: Goosie22's quote from the ezzo's:

I read this and I felt like crying. Those poor little babies, just wanting to be held and loved and fed.....:( and being ignored. Child abuse in my opinion.....

[reAllytee]

Gawd if my bubs cries for more than 5mins i end up crying along with him as all i want is to make him feel safe & loved there is no way in hell id put him down & leave him to cry alone just so he knew who was in control !!!! That is the thing they do know who is in control so they cry for our protection & love, they want the security to know we do love them etc.
This makes my blood boil !
Although we keep getting the crap from my MIL about how we are "spoiling" him because gawd forbid if he cries we soothe him gggrrrrrrrr.

[Tea Lady]

When was the book written? Does anyone actually publish it now? No, I DON'T want to buy one - just after some more background. I'm familiar with the Ezzos, but not the Pearls.

[Goosie22]

yes they are both available along with a long list of other "child training manuals" they are all tourture and child abuse. The people that use these methods and buy the books should be tracked arrested:mad:

[Lunar]

I am so SHOCKED!!!!!!
I actually had to go throw up and I couldn't read the whole thing.
That is terrible!
I don't know what to say, I'm at aloss, that is HORRIFIC and I can't believe people allow this to be published and in stores.
Is there anything like this available in Australia??? GOD above I hope not and if there is I'll be doing everything in my power to get rid of it even if it means going to the stores and tearing up all the books, I can't believe it!!!!!????
Children are gifts from GOD and should be cherished not punished for just BEING!

[JanetF]

You can buy the Ezzos stuff in Australia but most sleep trainers tell people pretty much the same unsubstantiated crap that the Ezzos do. The Pearls are in a class of their own IMO.

[Jaileth]

At a loss for words. I can't believe it. :(

I'd love to get a hold of every single copy of the books these idiots have ever writting and have a huge bonfire. They shouldn't waste paper printing out such cr*p!

[the_queen]

And you know what I think is really scary? The basic idea's of the Pearls and the Ezzos (ie CC, CIO, scheduled feeding, physical punishment, "parent is boss" attitude) are all "accepted practise" by lots of mainstream parents. I have only discovered AP since I've been pregnant this time (but realised that I basically used all the principles with Vallerie anyway!) but I've learnt already not to discuss it with other mothers, or even within sections of my own family. I get told "You'll make a rod for your own back - babies have to cry, you have to leave them to cry so they know who's boss" and "smacking is not child abuse - you have to teach them respect" (that one really confuses me....) and if I try to defend my point of view, I get told I'm being unrealistic, and that I don't know what I'm talking about, and then I'm sure they all call me a "whacko" behind my back.
My point (and I do have one) is that while we, as caring and loving parents, abhor these disgusting "child-training manuals", there is a real market for them, and lots of naive people would read them and beleive them. How do we change their thinking??? I try to back up my point of view with research ("oh but you can't raise a kid out of a book") or by proving that it's worked with Vally ("oh but you've only got one kid, obviously she's just a very good kid, wait till you get a little sh*t") I've also tried using my Christian faith as a reason why I parent in the AP-style, but then I get told "spare the rod spoil the child".... I feel like I can't win.

Sorry if this doesn't make much sense, I get so upset about this subject. :(

[JanetF]

I hear you and I totally agree! All common sense, logic and understanding of what babies are has completely gone in the last few generations. No one teaches parents how babies really sleep, that they need to be fed round the clock and now the holy grail of parenting is to make your child sleep 12 hours in a row in another room from birth. WT? It makes no sense and I really fear for our future with children being raised this way. No empathy, no attachment, poor health from substandard feeding practices. It's a nightmare. I have trouble sleeping sometimes after reading the pro-CC threads. It makes me nauseous to think people leave newborns to cry. Why have a baby if you're not prepared to parent 24 hours a day? Parenting doesn't stop when the sun goes down! The whole idea of mainstream parenting seems to be that parents' needs are foremost at all times and I'm afraid that the helpless nature of human babies makes that a complete nonsense. But we start it during pregnancy, don't we, when we induce left, right and centre for no medical reason so our babies are born drugged, in pain, taken away from us. No real attachment occurs in those circumstances so it's not really surprising that we believe any old crap the MCHN tells us after believing lies from hospitals and surgeons. It's as if all logic and parenting instinct has been beaten out of us but that's what happens to orphaned animals who have no parenting to learn from so no wonder it's happening in our society.

[the_queen]

You're so right Janet. People look at me strangely when I talk to Vallerie about how to "parent" her dolls, and I've been told off for encouraging her to "breastfeed" her dolls. How the heck is she going to learn how to parent, unless I show her the right way and talk to her about why it's right???

[Goosie22]

it really sadens me to think of all the children being ignored, because the parents have better things to do! the baby dosn't fit in with their lives and they search for 'METHODS' to make it, Motherhood/parenthood equals sacrifice if you don't have the time then don't apply you must put your childrens need first in all situations.

[Mrs Little]

mid wives and community nurses and all the help lines encourage you to always put baby down with eyes open. Let them settle themselves.

My understanding of the ezzo's theory is parental assessment. Not the clock or the parents needs...the parent determines whats best for the child with the knowledge they have of babies and their needs. Don't we all do that now?

I read the other article on hitting chn. and i was horrified. I was under the understanding they were omish?...that the name for it....that's not a christian.

Mrs Little & Son.

[JanetF]

Some people advocate trying to make babies selfsettle but since babies aren't biologically programmed to do this from birth, what's the point? I can't see the inherent virtue in having a newborn baby put themselves to sleep! They need to be close and constantly fed. No wonder countries where cosleeping and breastfeeding are the norm have negligible rates of SIDS. Babies needs are catered for appropriately unlike in this country where too few babies are parented after dark or even fed enough.

You need to read this site. http://www.ezzo.info/index.htm The Ezzos advocate strict routine feeding, only allowing babies access to the breast for a very limited time so they learn they have to gulp it all down then because there won't be any more for nearly 4 hours and many other pieces of trash that make me almost pass out with fury. Their ideas are causing untold emotional, physical and psychological devastation to babies all over the US and spreading fast. There is absolutely nothing in their work about parents looking at babies needs. Babies have no emotions, you only feed them when it's convenient to the parents! They should be locked up for promoting child abuse.


One such book, On Becoming Babywise, has raised concern among pediatricians because it outlines an infant feeding program that has been associated with failure to thrive (FTT), poor weight gain, dehydration, breast milk supply failure, and involuntary early weaning. A Forsyth Medical Hospital Review Committee, in Winston-Salem N.C., has listed 11 areas in which the program is inadequately supported by conventional medical practice.The Child Abuse Prevention Council of Orange County, Calif., stated its concern after physicians called them with reports of dehydration, slow growth and development, and FTT associated with the program. And on Feb. 8, AAP District IV passed a resolution asking the Academy to investigate "Babywise," determine the extent of its effects on infant health and alert its members, other organizations and parents of its findings.

[Goosie22]

The pearls define themselves as Christian not Omish(omish are the ones that don't interact with modern society they are still christian though)

This is a link to the an Ezzo warning site for those who think he is a harmless helpful soul.:confused: this is were that eg previously was taken from.

http://www.ezzo.info/

[JanetF]

Do you women mean Amish? The Amish sure as hell wouldn't be writing books and giving them to the modern mainstream to publish. And Pearl would be a most unlikely surname for them too :)
http://www.religioustolerance.org/amish.htm

[Goosie22]

Yes Amish :o JanetF thanks I'm, not the best at spelling.

[JanetF]

LOL I wondered if there was a new sect out there! ;)

[Goosie22]

Well anything could happen if the Amish are doing Controlled Crying Books???:D

[mygirls]

Like all of u i too am sickened by this book by the Pearls. :( Why anyone would want to hit a baby is beyond me.

However i feel i must correct you Janet - the Ezzo's do not recommend feeding your baby every 4 hrs but every 2.5- 3 hrs (it actually says not to rush into feeding your bub every 4 hrs & its not until after 4 mths you should even look at it)HOWEVER it does say if your baby is hungry or wakes before he is due for a feed FEED HIM. I have many friends who AP parent & they have let there newbies go more than 4 hrs during the day if he/she doesent wake up. By feeding bub every 2.5-3 hrs they shouldnt be dehydrated & be putting on a good amount of weight. I have the baby wise books & i dont recall were it says dont hold your bub:( i have used the babywise book for all 3 - but have adjusted it to each individual bub - as they are all different. All have been thrivers & none has not had enough cuddles kisses or feeds. I totally agree - if bubs is hungry feed him! - i just try & get her to have a full feed & they will usually go between 2.5-3 hrs before they wake for more. & if they havent woken by 3hrs i wake them but if she wakes up before that "time" i still feed her:) - that way they cant become dehydrated. I will add that all my bubs are BF too & i have always had a good milk supply when feeding like this. I think there may be extremes in parenting some ppl take things to far (like u say Janet about dehydration) & we all need to be aware of that.

[JanetF]

You're quite right about the time frame. I stand corrected. However these are some other statements from Babywise which are patently untrue and encouraging parents to treat babies really badly as well as being contrary to all available evidence and not even footnoted in the book.


Question: "My two-week old daughter nurses on one side, then falls asleep. Two hours later, she wants to eat again. What should I do?

Answer: You need to keep your baby awake during feeding time. . . Babies learn very quickly from the laws of natural consequences. If your daughter doesn't eat at one feeding, then make her wait until the next one. That will probably only happen once. Don't feed her between routine mealtimes; otherwise, you are teaching her to snack, not eat" (p. 180).

[What dangerous crap. So if your newborn doesn't guzzle immediately you don't feed for another few hours? So starve the baby to punish it for behaving like a baby.]

[This advocates controlled crying and nighttime starvation on an 8 week old!]

Question: "My baby is eight weeks old and has not yet slept through the night. What should I do to eliminate the middle-of-the-night feeding?

Answer: If he is waking every night at basically the same time, then he is waking out of nighttime habit and not out of need. If that's the case, you may need to help him eliminate the feeding period by not physically attending to him. Normally it takes three nights of some crying before the habit is broken. He will never remember those three nights, nor will they have any negative effects on him" (p. 182).

So if people follow these directions no wonder their babies ares starving and traumatised. :(

[mygirls]

Janet i totally agree with you. I would never make my bub wait till the next feed - to teach them a lesson ( if i had my book on me i would check this out) i can honestly say i dont recall reading that :( With the question about the 8 week newbie i do recall reading that however i never did it (or know anyone that has), all my bubs took a little over 8 weeks to sleep through (10.30 - 5.30) & i would simply feed them if they woke. Even if they started sleeping through & awoke one or two nights in a row at 11,12 etc weeks i would bf them back to sleep - though i do allow them 5-10 mins of fussing (not screaming) to see if they were just going through an active sleep phase before offering a bf. Like i said some ppl take things to the extreme nothing - routine,clocks etc should come in the way of your baby's health & wellbeing - i guess some ppl lack the sense or feel unable to use their own motherly instincts. :(

[Goosie22]

The trouble with these type of books is that the people who don't know how to exercise better judgement, carry it out to the letter. That is the danger in recommending them as they are because the information contained in them is wrong and dangerous.

[cosmic]

So true, Goosie. Friends of ours came to visit recently and were talking about when their daughter (now 13) was a baby and they tried CC with her. The mum was telling us how the baby cried until she vomited and she (mum) was in the hallway crying, wanting desperately to go in and pick her up while dad held her back, with book in hand saying "But the book says.....!!!". These are well educated, professional people, who are the most doting, loving parents just doing what they thought was best for their child because the 'expert' said it was.

[JanetF]

Well Tizzie Hall says that babies only vomit or defecate in those circumstances to get attention and if you change their clothes/sheets that they'll continue t do it every night to get your attention. Now how sick is that!

[Ffrenchknickers]

:eek: :eek: :eek: :rolleyes:

[mygirls]

I agree Goosie, some parents take things to the letter. Janet i am shocked - firstly why would u let ur bub scream until they throw up or deficate(?) in their cots:( :(
That is sick in it self but not to change the sheets to teach them is even sicker.. u have to wonder why ppl would do this to their babies.. but thinking it is right :confused: It would be amazing to see waht goes on behind closed doors.. then again maybe not.. btw WHO is this woman ?? ... if thats what i call her:rolleyes:

[WeThree]

Well Tizzie Hall says that babies only vomit or defecate in those circumstances to get attention and if you change their clothes/sheets that they'll continue t do it every night to get your attention. Now how sick is that!

:eek: :mad: :( :mad:

[Tea Lady]

How do these ppl come up with the motives that babies supposedly have? I don't get it. They can't talk, so how are you meant to know what their "intentions" are (or even if they have any)? Especially for really little bubs. Seems strange to me.

[OM]

Well Tizzie Hall says that babies only vomit or defecate in those circumstances to get attention and if you change their clothes/sheets that they'll continue t do it every night to get your attention. Now how sick is that!


Does she actually have a child herself? If she does I feel sorry for that poot liyylr bub :mad: :(

[melfunction]

Well Tizzie Hall says that babies only vomit or defecate in those circumstances to get attention and if you change their clothes/sheets that they'll continue t do it every night to get your attention. Now how sick is that!

WTF!! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Tea Lady]

Does she actually have a child herself? If she does I feel sorry for that poot liyylr bub

Too right !!

[TwoBlue]

the Pearls say a mother should hit her child if he cries for her.


This is the saddest and most horrible thing i have ever read :mad: :(

[Ffrenchknickers]

NO, Tizzie has no children. Last I heard she had just gotten engaged:)

[Tea Lady]

Lucky bloke - NOT!

[Ffrenchknickers]

LOL, well I am sure he feels quite lucky....I am sure she'd be loaded:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[JanetF]

She charges like a wounded bull to tell you to leave your kid to cry. Yep, took a lot of thought and work to come up with that theory :confused:

Here we go, CLassic Fizzy:

I believe my routines are very important in helping parents to interpret their baby’s cries. They teach parents to understand the difference between their baby’s various cries. When following a routine, you will start to recognise your baby’s hungry, tired or bored cries. When your baby starts to cry, you will be able to look at the routine and see what is due next. If your baby is due a feed, you will start to recognise that cry as a hungry cry. If your baby is due to have a sleep, you will learn that cry as a tired cry.
How dumb roflmao. Your baby will cry in a particular order all the time like a robot.


My doctor thinks my baby may have reflux. How can I be sure it’s not another problem like you suggested in your misdiagnosis article?
You should try your baby on my routine and make sure your baby is self-settling. If you are on the routine and your baby is sleeping and eating at the correct times but the reflux symptoms are still there, your baby is most likely suffering from a form of reflux. But if all the symptoms disappear, you will know it was not reflux.
So if your baby eats at Designated Times like a Good Baby they don't have reflux. WT?

[OM]

I cannot believe that the child health clinics endorse her routines! :eek: :eek: :mad:

[Ffrenchknickers]

I knooooow....I worry for all new mums who go there:mad:

[rebeccamum]

Those Pearls are just disgusting, they should be investigated by police or any authorities. I can't believe their books are published!

About Tizzie Hall, yeah it upsets me to know that she has a column in Practical Parenting. I like the magazine but always skip reading her column because I think she's such a rigd woman who probably doesn't have a baby of her own (and she really doesn't).

This is another Tizzie's classic:


Using one of my routines means your baby will seldom cry or not cry at all, This makes parenting easier, as a lot of the guesswork is removed.

Hmmm...just don't think it's at all possible.

[JanetF]

Nope she's childless but plenty other baby haters aren't, sadly, so they've experimented on their own poor defenceless kids :mad:

[Mary_T]

I read one or two sentences and I feel ill. I can't read anymore that is horrifying and makes me want to cry.

[cosmic]

Tizzie has a column in Practical Parenting?! :eek: OMG that mag just gets worse the more I hear about it.

[Tea Lady]

She'd be better off in "Impractical Parenting" - there's a magazine that wouldn't sell!!

[Goosie22]

Yes they should call practical consumerism sooooooooo many ads and ads pretending to be articles .I have never bought it, but was given one as a present when I had my first.

[Goosie22]

LOL LaWa very good.

[Mummabear]

Some people advocate trying to make babies selfsettle but since babies aren't biologically programmed to do this from birth, what's the point? I can't see the inherent virtue in having a newborn baby put themselves to sleep!

Look, I don't want to start a sh*t-fight here but if the above is soooooo true then how come there are quite a few babies out there that have naturally and of their own accord done this since birth??????? I don't advocate either of the practices talked about in the main topic of this thread, but there are some rather wild generalisations flying around. Yes, I say feed a baby when it's hungry and cuddle it when it cries, but I also believe that we can gently encourage our babies to learn self settling techniques that will allow them the room to grow as individuals.

[Nickster]

Sorry, prom queen, I can't see any wild generalisations flying around.....:o

[Goosie22]

Look, I don't want to start a sh*t-fight here but if the above is soooooo true then how come there are quite a few babies out there that have naturally and of their own accord done this since birth???????

The point is they will do it themselves when they are ready.;)
If you go with what they need which is Lots of Boobie, Lots of Cuddles, Lots of Love and attention each baby is individual and develop at their own pace. Encourageing women to think that a wakeful/unsettled baby is not normal dosn't support the mother baby relationship and just causes the mother more turmoil as she searches for what she is doing wrong or what is wrong with her baby, when actually it is all normal and healthy.:)

People writting books with routines/schedules/methods ect are interested in making money from the tears of our babies.

[reAllytee]

I think i understand what PromQueen meant as we often have people telling us we should have our babies in a routine even when young etc etc but then when a baby sleep through as from what i understand PQ's did then she sometimes gets the babies should be fed all the time etc so it can be taken as though she is starving her bubs IYKWIM but Goosie just summed it up really well.

The point is they will do it themselves when they are ready.;)
If you go with what they need which is Lots of Boobie, Lots of Cuddles, Lots of Love and attention each baby is individual and develop at their own pace.

So really if you are lucky to have a bubs that is quite contented to sleep through you are one of the lucky ones as they have decided this is what THEY want !
I had the problem of being told bubs should be in a routine as a baby was told i was spoiling him etc etc so it made me feel like a bad mother etc then one day i had enough as i was already trying to cope with a colicky baby that was enough as far as i was concerned ! I just started going with what HE wanted & things settled somewhat & i learned to ignore others who were negative from then on.
As Goosie said people writing books with routines/schedules/methods ect are interested in making money from the tears of our babies & its true ! We think we are doing the "right" thing when we have so called experts telling us what we should & shouldnt be doing which as well meaning parents we follow to do the "right" thing.
Parenting is definately one hard career.
But worth it :D

[jaydensmum]

I got Jayden into a routine at a young age. I dont think theres anything wrong with setting up routines for babies. I find that they settle better when everything has its time and they are not all over the place.

[brooke]

that makes me sick! How could someone do that to a infant no matter a child! They are so innocent! ANYONE who does that doesnt deserve a child!
How could some actually write a book about it and promote that type of behaviour!
A baby should not be punnished! Its sick!
i feel sad after reading that! :mad: :(

[jaydensmum]

Sorry brooke, after reading what?

jaydensmum

[razzle]

I think Brooke's referring to the link on the first post.

Disgusting... I don't have the words to describe these people or what I'd like to see happen to them. :mad:

[cosmic]

oh no! Poor Jaydensmum.. did you think Brooke was referring to your post? :eek: :D

[jaydensmum]

oh no! Poor Jaydensmum.. did you think Brooke was referring to your post? :eek: :D

Yep!! :o I feel so stupid now but relieved! :D

jaydensmum

[cosmic]

That's what happens when we read the first post and respond to it without reading everything in between. :D Mind you, sometimes it's hard to trawl through all the cr@p to get to the last post so I do a lot of skim reading! ;)

[brooke]

sorry jaydensmum- I was refering to the link on the first post!
Its sick!

I would never make judgement about someone if they are trying to get their baby in to routine or not.. what ever works for them and the baby! :)

sorry.. I didnt even realise that their was that discussion going on until after I had posted! :o

[jaydensmum]

Dont be sorry brooke, it was my stupid fault for not reading the whole thread! :o Ill have to start reading the threads with more detail from now on.

jaydensmum

[brooke]

dont worry me too... he he he :)

[jaydensmum]

Its hard sometimes to read it all, cause theres so many pages on some of them. You couldnt possibly read it all.

jaydensmum

[our little treasures]

I can't believe that in Australia someone hasn't had it removed totally!!!!!!!!!! This is a horrific book and like myself I would buy it without reading it and pass on by accident thinking it was a helpful book!! ARGH It made me cry and my hubby told me to stop reading it out "it's making me sick" was his answer!!!

[SugarBlossom]

Well there are no words to describe how that article makes me feel, they need to whipped into submission themselves and see how they like it:mad: :mad: :mad: