Please help! Advice on birth for my sister

[belli]

My sister is 7 months pregnant and starting to get worried about the birth.

She isn't too worried about the pain aspect (at least not yet), but she is worried about how her body will be after the birth.

Apparently the vagina doesn't go back to normal after a vaginal birth but remains loose. Is this true? My sister is worried about this and is wondering whether she would prefer a caesarian for this reason.

But then again, what about the stomach after caesarian? Does it go back to normal and as flat as ever or does the stomach get a paunch there?

She just wants honest answers but does not know who to ask.

Thanks in advance.

[moonblossom]

I think everyone is different. Some women's body's go back to normal within days and others take longer.

If shes worried about her vagina, tell her Pelvic Floor Excersises are WONDERFUL, I was taught them after i had my first son and have continued during all the rest of my pregnancy's and after. I've been lucky in some ways, never got any stretch marks, and lost the pregnancy weight within weeks of the birth. My stomache back to flat even quicker.

So as u can see everyone is different. I SO love my body more today than I did when I was young and pre children.

And no matter what, your a mother, you're beautiful

Take care

[Oscar's mum]

Firstly welcome to Bub Hub, I noticed that this is your first post.

Secondly get you sister to do the kegal exercises, that will strengthen everything down there.

A c-section is major surgery and well I would rather have it all a little bit looser down there than a scar straight across your bikini line. The belly can go back to being flat after a vaginal and a ceaser birth, but keep in mind that after a c-section you definately cannot lift anything heavier than bub for at least 6 weeks!

[dannii]

i guess its normal to be so worried the first time, but remind your sister that, this is what our bodies are for.

and everything is designed just right for us to birth babies. Her vagina wont just "hang loose" ;)

it does shrink back and like moonblossom said... pelvic floor exercises are brilliant for getting back to normal again.

i wouldnt (personally) go through major abdominal surgery (caesarean) just because i was worried about how my vagina will be.

She will be fine.. i wish her good luck and hope she doesnt worry toooo much!! :p

[Lil X-men]

OMG crack up! No you wont be hanging loose forever!!!
I had my baby 8months ago now, But I felt back to normal down there about 8wks after bubs was born. Hubby doesnt think it's any different either. Your body is remarkable in the way it can stretch so much and return to normal within a short period of time!
Like moon blossom said,everyone is different and some people will take longer to recoup than others, but I left hosptial two days after having bubs with my pre -pregnancy jeans on!
I would prefer to have a few weeks recoevery from a vag birth than a scar from a c -sect. Some people dont have a choice, so since she has a choice, a vaginal birth would be by far preferrable to a c-sect if she wants a quick recovery.

Good luck for your sister's impending birth!

[melfunction]

[QUOTE=JulieXavier]OMG crack up! No you wont be hanging loose forever!!!
I had my baby 8months ago now, But I felt back to normal down there about 8wks after bubs was born. Hubby doesnt think it's any different either. Your body is remarkable in the way it can stretch so much and return to normal within a short period of time!QUOTE]


Can't say I've had any complaints either :p IYKWIM ;)

[moonblossom]

Ummm no complaints here either...and my partner isnt ummmm ...above normal...ummm shosh girls...LOL

[melfunction]

Ummm no complaints here either...and my partner isnt ummmm ...above normal...ummm shosh girls...LOL


Hope your partner isn't reading over your shoulder Moonblossom :o

[moonblossom]

HELLL NOOO lmao. You know men and their d**k size, thinks its everything ;) pfttttt :D

[moonblossom]

Oppsss can i say d**k :D

[nemosmum]

Ok now we know who the potty mouth is :p hehehe

tell your sis not to worry I had a VB and had about 22 stitches coz I tore and had an episiotomy. But I was back to normal by about 6 weeks and about the belly just becoz you have a VB doesnt mean you wont get a paunch LOL coz I sure do :eek: yes I admit it LOL I still have a little baby pouch (as DH calls it) and its been 16 months arghhhhh!

[Oscar's mum]

lol too funny Moonblossom!:D

They do seem to have issues don't they! lol

[JanetF]

Oddly enough all those women walking around who've pushed a baby out don't have vaginas hanging out ;) We're designed to give birth LOL. Things you can do to avoid vaginal damage are:
don't birth in a hospital or at least not with an obstetrician
stay off your back to birth
don't consent to an episiotomy they are an unnecessary mutilation and cause massive problems to vaginas
don't allow anyone to tell you when to push
only push when the urge is too powerful you can't NOT push

Having a caesarean not only risks short term health from infections, catheter damage and the effects of the major drugs involved but doesn't protect against pelvic floor damage in the slightest. It also puts you at significant risk of PND, hysterectomy and hemmorage.

Also tell her that the uteruses of women who breastfeed go back to their prepregnant size while those of women who use breastmilk substitutes never do. The suckling action of the baby is designed to shrink the uterus so if you don't get enough of it, it stays slightly enlarged thereafter.

[tickle]

Sorry can't say that one......how about penis or pee pee as an alternative, hope you find one that works for you.:rolleyes:

[drewid]

Hey don't forget about willy or pecker :eek:

[melfunction]

How about 'The Sargeant' :o

[melfunction]

Richard ???

[reAllytee]

I call it a doodle :D
Yes im like 12yrs old :p
Hahahahahah

[Lil X-men]

Um Janet F said something about if you dont BF your uterus never goes back to it's original size. I was only able to feed for 5weeks, does that mean my uterus is still enlarged? It doesnt look it from the outside. I mean my tummy is flat.

[Mother Duck]

I so very much agree with the aforementioned - your sisters body, as is ours, is designed to give birth

VB is amazing and a wonderful experience

It would be a shame to want a CS simply for fear of a VB - having said that you just never know, when the time comes she may be strongly advised to have a CS - which I might add is by no means a lesser birth!

Anyway just for the sake of helpful info - I was also really worried about being a bit on the loose side afterwards - it just seems logical that you would be

In fact when it came time to play the horizontal banjo i was terrifyed, lo and behold there was no problems, in fact for me personally it is actually more comfortable now than it was before (I now have the most amazing, am I allowed to say it?, orgasms, much better than before birthing) and DH has told me (as he knew I was worried) that he finds it still as amazing as ever, no different at all - and he is not one to just give lip service (no pun intended!)

TMI??? - Sorry - :o

[Mother Duck]

Hi Julie - I love Janet F's information but sometimes I think it may read a little bluntly wrt the natural way being 'the way' - please Janet, no offence meant

Sometimes we just can't BF right through, some women can't BF at all - it is my understanding that the uterus will not stay the same size - certainly I think it does its most rapid 'shrinking' in the first few weeks - very interesting - maybe Janet F can elaborate a little

[belli]

Hello all,

Thank you all very much for your helpful information.

I read your responses to my sister last night over the phone as she doesn't have a computer at present.

Im a little confused though about this mysterious birth experience. Isn't it supposed to be the most painful thing in the world? So why not bypass the experience by having caesarian? Yet some of you describe it as "wonderful". Why is it so wonderful? It's a little confusing for me.

Also, with a caesarian does it definitely leave the skin on the tummy unable to go back to flat again or is that only what happens when you had caesarians in bygone eras where they made a bigger cut?

As for the loose vagina phenomenon (sorry girls it sounds crude doesn't it?) would it make sense to strengthen the vagina before birth? or just wait until afterwards?

[Kaileysmum]

Hi,
Your body is designed to have a baby, then more babies. So of course your bits go back to normal, so we can do it all again and have more, aparently thats what women are here for? (silly!!! I think men should have to do it!!! ha ha). C-sections are major surgery, that can have complications, and are hard to get over (you cant do much for 6weeks). I had a very long labour and my bub was stuck, so I dont know personally about your bits after birth as I didnt use that exit. But I had a emerg c-section, and I hemorraged (Sp??) while on the operating table and lost over a litre of blood and had to have a blood transfusion. So c-sections arent the kind of thing Id recommend if the reason is only that you (sister) are worried about vagina after birth. We are very streachy down there.

Hope this helps. E:)

[moonblossom]

I understand your sisters concerns, we live in the age of THE BODY BEAUTIFUL and we dont want it distorted or stretched or changed to what were used too.

Please believe me, as a mother of 7, with one on the way, my body has improved with each pregnancy. Yes I look after it, bloody hell it deserves it after doing such wonderful work bringing these unique individuals into the world.

The birth experience itself...ahhh what can I say. Its overwhelming, amazing, spiritual, loving, all engrossing and yes, painful. Depending on where your mindset is, the experience can be absolutely overpowering and one of the most wonderful experiences you can go through. You have to know your body really well though and the process it is going through, and I mean EVERY step of the way. I didnt have any pain relief except once, and that was a bad mistake. Everybody's pain threshold is different and when I was having my first one of the ways I trained my thoughts was to think of the worse pain I can imagine, and if it never got that bad, then I didnt need anything. It never got that bad.

No matter what way your sis has her child, its a miracle and she should be proud, but if elective caesar is what she is thinking, then really get some research for her. As the others have said, giving birth is a natural process and at least after giving birth naturally we can resume our normal lives within minutes of birth, unlike caesar, where she will be in a lot of pain for weeks.

Anyway I hope I've helped a little.

many blessings to you and merry xmas

[reAllytee]

belli - Your sister needs to understand that her body will change with pregnancy & childbirth but it need not be the bad thing a lot of people make it out to be.
I agree with moonblossom society media etc put a lot of strain on women & the whole body beautiful idea & its just so wrong !
If she keeps fit & does her pelvic floor exercises this will help get her back into "shape" so to speak doing them while pregnant & after pregnancy is the big thing actually even before pregnancy is a good thing nothing wrong with good strong healthy pelvic floor muscles :) .
I had a big baby that did a lot of damage to my vagina as well as to my tummy & yeah maybe i will never get it back to perfect but ive realised its not worth it & plus i have to combat scars ( stretch marks ) & im proud of what my body acheived so i dont care if that means having a pot belly ! Yes "down there" took a little longer to heal etc i wont go into why as its not really the time but i still have a great sex life & my partner is not fazed whatsoever !
Yes it is the most painful experience in the world !!! but the most exciting scary & fantastic also !!! Actually i dont think there are even enough words to explain it ! :p
I had a traumatic labour etc but i was wanting to do it all over within a week !
The pain is horrible etc but when your birth baby its over, finished, its amazing i was always told this by my mum & never believed her but its true ! Then when your holding bubs in your arms you forget any problems & the world seems so much better for having this new life in it !
Caesarian isnt "easier" far from it. Its major surgery that can like childbirth go ahead with no dramas but then it can also go wrong. Your cutting through 7 (? thats from memory) layers of muscle thats a big thing ! You cant do as much as you want after it because of this so dont think its an easier option as it isnt. But that being said a lot of mums have it done with no dramas & are happy & healthy for it.
Again the tummy going back to normal or flat depends on things like your fitness & also how big bubs was ( the bigger the baby the more your muscles stretch ) but with patience & exercise like vaginal birth you can get it back. My sister had a caesar & you can hardly even see the scar so you wouldnt know any difference with her & this was 10yrs ago now !
Try & get your sis not to stress so much its hard i know ! But maybe she needs to get some books she can read if she cant get online as then at least she can put her mind to ease this way :)

[Ffrenchstar]

Great post Allyoo:D

[Oscar's mum]

Im a little confused though about this mysterious birth experience. Isn't it supposed to be the most painful thing in the world? So why not bypass the experience by having caesarian?




Oh trust me caesarians hurt! they don't tickle!

[JanetF]

Because caesareans are major surgery and only supposed to be used when a baby or mother might die. It's like having an operation to remove your poo instead of just pooing. Babies and mothers are healthier and less likely to die when normal, physiological birth occurs.

Check what these Obs say about some of the risks of major surgery.
A quick summary by Olubusola Amu, Sasha Rajendran and Ibrahim I Bolaji,
BMJ 1998;317:462-465 ( 15 August )
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/317/7156/462

"Caesarean sections are not without complications and consequences. Maternal risks in the short term include haemorrhage, infection, ileus, pulmonary embolism, and Mendelson's syndrome. The prevalence of hysterectomy due to haemorrhage after caesarean section is 10 times that after vaginal delivery, and the risk of maternal death is increased up to 16-fold.
Long term morbidity including formation of adhesions, intestinal obstruction, bladder injury, and uterine rupture is often underestimated during subsequent pregnancy. There is evidence suggesting decreased fecundity, increased risk of ectopic pregnancy, placenta praevia, and worse infant outcome in subsequent pregnancies, although the effect on non-reproductive health is unclear and contradictory. Feelings of inadequacy, guilt, and failure in not completing a natural process may affect bonding between mother and infant, particularly if the operation was conducted under general anaesthetic"

[WeThree]

. It's like having an operation to remove your poo instead of just pooing.


hehe Janet, Love it:D

[lilly]

um...I'm a novice to this but I'm confused by JanetF's advice to avoid hospitals and obstetricians for a VB....

where should I be?

[moonblossom]

Hi Lilly,

I think janet just wants the choice where you have your baby, how you have your baby to be YOURS.

Do whatever your comfortable with. I've had babies in a delivery room, and in birthing units and the outcome was the same, healthy labors and healthy children.

I do admit, the birthing unit was WONDERFUL, Just do it your way, and things will go fine.

[Oscar's mum]

It's like having an operation to remove your poo instead of just pooing.


lol I never thought of it that way.

[reAllytee]

Oh im so going off the track here but heh sometimes id love the operation to get rid of my poo :p There are people like my aunty & i who have heaps of trouble pooing you have no idea the things we have had to resort to ! :eek:
Anywhos back to the thread ........

[JanetF]

I'm just saying that you have lots more options than the common private surgeon one. Obs have the worst outcomes of all birthing modes in this country so if you really must go to a hospital, a public hospital, with a doula is the safest way to birth. In other countries which have far better outcomes than Australia, routine obstetric care is not considered appropriate for normal pregnancy.

[reAllytee]

You really have to wonder what we are doing when it comes down to it i mean why are we so lagging the world when it comes to pregnancy & birthing when we lead the way in so many other things ? Or maybe its because everyone is too busy bowing to what doctors have to say or should i say what "some" doctors have to say.

[JanetF]

I wish I could answer that, Ally. Our caesarean rate is of concern worldwide but many Australians don't perceive it as a problem. I can't understand why but then how many women really research pregnancy and birth and look at all models of care before choosing one? I think most of us are unaware that there are different approaches and one is vastly superior to the commonly available one. The savings to our healthcare system of fewer surgeons being employed to care for healthy women would be unbelievable not to mention the flow on effect of fewer sick women, fewer sick babies, more breastfeeding which leads to healthier babies and less cancers in mothers. No wonder we have an obesity epidemic when breastfeeding is the first defence against it and most babies in Australia don't even get 6 months exclusive feeding which is the bare minimum. And no wonder we have breast and ovarian cancer epidemics when breastfeeding offers a great deal of protection against them too. I really despair sometimes. In Holland where 30% of babies are born at home, paid for by the government, and about 50% are born in freestanding "birth hotels" with NO OBS they save so much money that new mothers are given a housekeeper for free for the first few weeks. They also have a much lower c-sec rate, higher breastfeeding, very low PND and much healthier mothers and babies after birth because unnecessary interventions just don't occur. We *could* have that system if we worked for it.

[Bron]

In many ways you're right Janet. An awful lot of Obstetricians take the easy approach of doing a c section when there is no clinical reason for performing one - simply because it is more convenient, or the woman beleives it is better for her.

There are, however SOME (not many, but some) private obstetricians who are fantastic about birth choices. When I was pregnant earlier this year I saw a private obstetrician who basically said that he strongly encourages vaginal deliveries, is happy to use the family birthing centre at the private hospital and prefers a birth with no intervention, unless intervention is necessary. My kind of doctor!! Of course, if I'd gone in there saying that I only wanted a c section, then I'm sure he wouldn't have argued with me, but his approach was refreshing. These obstetricians do exist out there, you just need to look for them.

Bron

[JanetF]

I'm not sure about why we need to look for them though, Bron, when the appropriate carer for at least 90% of women is a midwife and not a surgeon. I think it's great that there are a select and small group who support normal, physiological birth but most of us just don't need their skillset ;)

[Bron]

Yes, good point!! In my case I went to see a private obstetrician because I had reasons why I wanted to choose my own doctor (if something went wrong there were some doctors that I didn't want anywhere near me!!). But you are right, of course, in a large majority of cases that level of care isn't necessary.

[reAllytee]

Yes i agree with you bron if only many more doctors thought this way things would be a lot easier im sure ! My mum had the same one for my sister & i ( my eldest sis was born overseas ) & he was awesome didnt believe in interventions etc he even told off a midwife who went to use forceps on my mum ( she was never allowed to work with him again aaparently ! ). That being said JanetF has a point why are we even needing to bother with Obs when we should get adequate support & help with our midwives or a private clinic ! But then not bagging out my midwives as they were great overall & i loved them but they werent exactly "helpful" in many ways & i found that in the end it seemed as though they lacked a lot of knowledge if thats the right way to put it. I think more funding should go into teaching the midwifes so that there are less interventions it could work because it would mean we wouldnt be paying doctors as much !
I have to say though i was a bottle fed bubs & so were my sisters due to us absolutely refusing the breast my mum even tried lactation consultants & even they were shocked to see the way we refused it as they had never seen anything like it. I would not even open my mouth or be forced to apparently ! We are all healthy & so is my mum besides being disabled & she too was bottle fed. Yes i agree there are great benefits for bf i just have found of late those i have spoken to with bubs who suffered PND like me had it due to the pressure we received over not being able to bf. I think overall care needs to be looked at on a case to case basis on whats right for mums & bubs !

[JanetF]

These are great articles about the perilous state of hospital birth in Australia. Bear in mind that all intervention rates have risen considerably since they were produced so we now have private hospitals with 70-80% c-sec rates for first time mamas. Tragic.

Fish can't see water: The need to humanize birth in Australia
Marsden Wagner (MD MSPH)
Marsden began his career in public health as a neonatologist and epidemiologist, firstly in California then Denmark. He retired from a distinguished career as head of Maternal and Child Health for the European Office of the World Health Organisation (WHO), he now acts as a consultant for WHO in the emerging countries of central and eastern Europe. He chaired the three consensus conferences convened by WHO on appropriate technology around the time of birth and is in demand as an international speaker for his forthright support of midwifery and midwives.
http://www.acegraphics.com.au/articles/wagner03.html

Normal birth: what are the chances?
Sally Tracy et al
Sally trained as a midwife in New Zealand following the birth of her fourth child. Since her return to Australia she has been involved in research and has worked in both hospital and community settings. She was a research midwife with the Australian Midwifery Action Project (AMAP), and is enrolled at UTS in the inaugural Professional Doctorate in Midwifery. She is currently a senior research midwife at the Centre for Family Health and Midwifery, UTS.
http://www.acegraphics.com.au/articles/sally01.html

[reAllytee]

Very interesting !
But as the second article said they dont have the details on why women ended up choosing the epidural only the stats of the interventions etc. It would be interesting to find out why the women chose them was it on advice of doctors or midwives or just being "told" they would need it by say society with our whole way of thinking "take the drugs !!!!!!!"
I think even though my bubs was almost an emergency c section i wouldve definately had one if i hadnt had my epidural i had been in labour so long & was so exhausted etc. But hopefully next time i wont even need one !

[Mother Duck]

MERRY CHRISTMAS!

It is a damn shame when these stats show such horrific cs rates.

While some mums need them as you have said Janet, it is meant to be because of danger to mum or bub - yet it seems that it is just for conveniece

I had M at bc in Bris - my midwife was so very patient - she even had to pull a few strings wrt reporting how long I had been in labour - because it was a difficult birth and because it took a fair while the 'powers that be' would have insisted that I be whizzed off to cs

Absolutely NOT my personal wish

I also find it horrific that for the women who feel empowered enough to know precisely the birth plan that they want - hospital staff will not allow them to do 'whatever' because it doesn't fit in with policy

Rubbish!

As you say Ally - we are lagging a long way behind when it comes to child birth

[Ffrenchstar]

What I find astounding is the sudden huge number of women who have pelvises too small for their bubs:confused: What is with that??? Has something gone wrong lately that means we are bearing babies out of proportion to our bodies:eek: I cant get over the amount of people that say they had to have a c-sec because their hips were too small/babies too big. Thats a hard one because once a doctor tells you that (even if it isnt true - which I dare say it normally isnt) I suppose you wouldnt want to go against it out of fear of something happening to your baby and being your fault....I suppose alot of times the docs do this out of convenience but probably also out of fear of being sued if something goes wrong - with all the lawsuits flying round atm:rolleyes:
Argh, its almost 1am, Merry Christmas, I am so just waffling on here, dont even nkow what I wrote:o

[Goosie22]

Ffrenchstar
You hit the nail on the head. Fear of litigation is the Obs/Gynea Specialists biggest motivation and after this it is lack of knowledge in Normal uncomplicated birth. As previous people have suggested they are trained Doctors/Surgeons and as such practice in a way that is focused on what will go wrong and how they can "MANAGE THE RISKS". They don't trust in Woman kind to be able to do it with our help most of the time. Having said that If appropriatly trained and working under the Best Practice Model in a Midwifery lead Unit they are very handy.
My advice to the original question regarding active birth is to stay away from hospital as long as you can, remain active and upright (int the active phase)and choose a Midwife for your bith support and advocate. One last thing pick people who are positive and aware of your choices to be there also. Wish you well

[WeThree]

great post Goosie:D

[JanetF]

Hear hear! I shudder every time I hear the "my pelvis was too small" thing. I think it's truly appalling that surgeons are allowed to tell lies like that to so many women :mad:

[Mother Duck]

The whole pelvis is too small thing was quite intimidating for me pre-baby and particularly as birthing drew near

I am very thin - a bit rakeish really - I remember asking my midwife and she kindly chuckled and assured me that my baby would be 'made to measure'!

There must be alot of this falasy around for it to instantaneously come to ones mind when pregnant!