breastfeeding and bottle feeding

[hayleylea]

hi my little boy is just over 2 months old and i feel like he is feeding off me ALL the time. He doest sleep a great deal during the day - he isnt a cry baby or anything just doesnt go down for big sleeps, just cat naps. I find that he is ALWAYS hungry during the day....at night he feeds on and off for 3 hours before he goes to bed (Awake the whole time) and i eventually get him down - sometimes he sleeps through the whole night or wakes after 5 hours which i have no complaints about. I just feel like he is on my boob the whole entire day and its sooo draining. I am thinking about giving him complimentary bottles of formular for a couple of feeds a day (so feed him with breast and formula) just wondering if anyone else has done this and what their routine was (ie when did they feed their babies the formula - what time of day etc)....Any help would be great. My little man is just perfect except the constant feeding off me, he gets so frustrated with me too like he is getting enough. I check my boobs and there is still milk coming out so if anyone has any ideas of suggestions that would be greatly appreciated!! I have posted this message in both the breast feeding and bottle feeding section...:o

[the_queen]

Hi Hayleylea!
Maybe he's having a growth spurt? In which case, feeding all the time is pretty normal (I know that's just made you fall over in horror :p I know, it can be so draining when it seems like all you do all day is breastfeed...) The more he sucks, the more milk you'll make, and he will settle down in a more "mummy-friendly" routine soon enough. If you give him formula, your milk supply will decrease, because the more he sucks the more you'll make. (I just repeated myself didn't I :rolleyes: ) Even though he may seem like he's not getting enough milk, the reason he's feeding all the time is probably because he needs more energy at the moment to help his little body grow big and strong. And the more he sucks, the more milk you'll make (OK now there's just an echo in here;) !!!) Plus, if he's sleeping a lot during the night (you lucky lucky mummy!) then he needs to be getting all his breastmilk feeds in during his awake hours.
If JanetF replies to this thread in the "Breastfeeding" section, she will definately have some wonderful suggestions (wise woman that she is), such as co-sleeping which means even though you still wake up in the night to feed, you don't have to get out of bed to do it. And if you think breastfeeding is time-consuming, think about all the work that goes into formula-feeding - sterilising, making up the bottles, warming them up... not to mention the cost of formula itself, plus the sterilising stuff, plus the bottles, teats, bottle-brushes, etc etc.....
I breastfed my daughter until she had cleft lip repair surgery and after that we bottle-fed her, so I have seen things from both sides of the fence. If you can persevere with the exclusive breastfeeding for the next month or so, you will find it gets much easier and it won't seem like such a chore.
You sound like a wonderful Mummy and it's very obvious that you love your son and only want the very best for him. I hope you can get things sorted out!
And BTW your little boy is just GORGEOUS :D He is just so cute!!

[reAllytee]

All i can say is do what YOU want. Dont let anyone bully you either way as it so often happens i had a MIL who tried & it was very distressing.
I breast fed bubs for 4 days or so as i couldnt continue due to other various probs but the other thing that drove me mad was that as he was such a big bubs i had to supplement him as my milk hadnt come through yet which to me defeated the purpose ! I had the midwives & lactation consultant advise me to do this to keep bubs happy. But as i said due to other various probs i stopped when i got home.
I have bottle fed bubs since with no dramas & in some ways im glad i did because everytime he went through a growth spurt he was drinking 200mls every 2hrs & i felt like all i did was feed him so i started solids early ( no im not saying everyone should do this so please dont assume im advocating this ) & he would never let me put him down i dread to think what i wouldve been like if he had still been bf. I did this because i thought it was best for my bubs again & i have never looked back bubs is as happy & healthy as ever & im a happy mamma ( well when we arent teething that is :p )
There are a lot of mums on here who use formula during the nite but bf during the day as to whether they can offer advice im not sure. JanetF is the master of bf so may help you out with advice also.
Just remember yes bf is easier in not having to make bottles cheaper etc but ff is in no way going to let your child down.
Go with what your instincts tell you i say as no one call tell you what your child wants or needs more than you.

[the_queen]

No offense taken TanUch :) Isn't it great to be part of a forum where we all have different opinions and are able to express them? Formula feeding certainly can be cheap - but I think you have to agree that cheap formula is still more expensive than free breastmilk.
Anyway, I honestly don't want to get into a debate or an argument, let's just agree to disagree :)

Good luck Hayleylea, your baby will love you no matter how you feed her.

[giggles]

Hi Hayleylea!

Now, first let me say, this is just what happened with me and I am just sharing my story.....

When Ava first arirved home, I had my Mum come and stay for a few weeks to "help out" That sounds awful, she was a great help but I think I really needed to find my own feet ig you know what I mean! Anyway anytime Ava cried she was "hungry" and like you I spent the better part of 24 hours, or thats' what it felt like, with a boob in her mouth.

I was getting tired and frustrated and as you can imagine so was Ava.

Once Mum left, I took a good hard look at what we were doing, read a damn good book called "The Baby Whisperer" by Tracey Hogg and finally worked out that I was just reading all of her signs wrong.

I think if you have a good CHN, have a chat with her. And give the above book a read if you can get hold of it. A penny dropped for me when I read it!

Enjoy your beautiful boy.........

[cosmic]

Can I just ask, if breastmilk isn't enough to satisfy some babies, what did they do before formula was invented?? I'm not arguing with anyone.... it's a genuine question. :rolleyes:

[Chickadee]

Cosmic, they had wet nurses and milk banks. Or just tried to make due with cows milk.

[draught]

Hi Cosmic - I think the answer is that they used wet nurses (eg. my grandmother fed her own children plus others whose mothers couldn't produce enough milk etc in the years after WW2), cow's milk, rice milk etc.

[cosmic]

Martha, wet nurses was the first thing that came to my mind too....except that would mean still feeding breastmilk. So is the issue then, not with breastmilk being unsatisfying, but with the strain on the mother of constant feeding?

[Crazy Monkey]

All sounds normal to me...
My DS was the same and it is very exhausting.. If breastfeeding is the way you want to go, stick it out.. It gets better and easier.. I had the same thoughts at about the 2 month stage but really wanted to feed, so I presisted, not much go done around the house but I was doing what was best for my DS...

Good luck

[Chickadee]

Cosmic - I don't want to divert this thread topic too much. Some mums cope easily with growth spurts and frequent feeding, some struggle. For whatever reason, whether its due to differences in supply quantity, support networks for mum, how quickly boobs respond to increased demand, fatigue, etc. I'm not an expert and haven't researched this but from what I understand few women have inadequate quality bm. I thought I did, but in hindsight it was a supply (quantity) problem and lack of information on my part about growth spurts and on how the supply/demand system worked.

[cosmic]

Thanks Martha (and Draught.. sorry I missed your post). I didn't mean to divert the thread, but was curious about the comment that breastmilk doesn't satisfy some babies.

Hayleylea, you've received lots of good advice and whatever you decide will be right for you. One thing I would add, apart from the supply issue that others have highlighted is that when you introduce anything else to a breastfed baby (such as formula) you alter the Ph balance (or something :rolleyes: ) of their tummy so that even if you keep up with the breastfeeding the rest of the time, they no longer absorb all the good stuff - antibodies etc - at the same rate as an exclusively breastfed baby. That's why the World Health Organisation recommends nothing but breastmilk until 6mths.

Whatever you decide, let's hope it's just a growth spurt and he's back to 'normal' feeding soon. ;)

[cosmic]

And in the other post u said, FF alters a baby's PH in their stomach WTF? Where did u get this latest one from?:rolleyes:
Tanuch, if you are interested this stuff is available to anyone on the net.


* Breastfed babies have a lower gut pH (acidic environment) of approximately 5.1-5.4 throughout the first six weeks that is dominated by bifidobacteria with reduced pathogenic (disease-causing) microbes such as E coli, bacteroides, clostridia, and streptococci o babies fed formula have a high gut pH of approximately 5.9-7.3 with a variety of putrefactive bacterial species.

* Once dietary supplementation begins, the bacterial profile of breastfed infants resembles that of formula-fed infants in which bifidobacteria are no longer dominant and the development of obligate anaerobic bacterial populations occurs. (Mackie, Sghir, Gaskins, 1999)

* Relatively small amounts of formula supplementation of breastfed infants (one supplement per 24 hours) will result in shifts from a breastfed to a formula-fed gut flora pattern. (Bullen, Tearle, Stewart, 1977)
Or this...

"...it is well known now that not breast fed babies develop completely different gut flora to the breast fed babies.
A baby is born with a sterile gut. In the first 20 or so days of life the baby's virgin gut surface gets populated by a mixture of microbes. This is the child's gut flora, which will have a tremendous effect on this child's health for the rest of his/her life. Where does this gut flora come from? Mainly from the mother. ... Gut flora is something we do not think much about. And yet the number of functions the gut flora fulfils is so vital for us that if some day our digestive tract got sterilised we probably would not survive.
The first and very important function is appropriate digestion and absorption of food. If a child does not acquire normal balanced gut flora, then the child will not digest and absorb foods properly...."

Hope that clarifies.

Sorry Hayleylea. That hasn't got anything to do with your original issue, but I didn't know where else to answer the question. Hope your hungry little person is giving you a break. :)

[hayleylea]

thanks everyone for your advice and support. He is feeding every 2 hours around about but i suppose it could be something to do with the hot weather. Its not that bad really i just wondered if it was normal. I think i will continue breast feeding for awhile to see how i go... he has had the odd bottle of formular as i was sick a week ago and my mum helped me out with a night time feed here and there cause i needed some rest. He seemed to go alright on it - had no probs with taken the bottle or constipation....I am going to try and stick out the breast feeding though, i atleast wanted to do it till he was 4 months old - that was my goal, my ULTIMATE GOAL one being 6months.:D
THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE

[cosmic]

Good for you Hayleylea! Sounds like you are doing a great job with your little man! ;)

[sopolicha]

Go Hayleylea, I know my little babe has been looking for more bm in the hot weather, maybe he is just thirsty. Has he been sweating a lot?

[jonesso]

Hi hayleylea

If you want to try bottle and breast this is what I did...

On the days that bub fed really well from breast, I only gave him 1 bottle (night - about 9pm). If he was being difficult or not feeding particularly well he got 1 bottle at lunch, around 12pm, plus the night one.

It is true that your milk supply will drop off if you drop any feeds, but it is possible to sustain your milk supply - e.g. Originally did 8 breastfeeds and 0 bottles - then 7 breastfeeds and 1 bottle, then 6 breastfeeds and 2 bottles. The 6 breastfeeds situation was quite sustainable and comfortable for both me and bub. However, if you suddenly decided that you wanted to do 8 breastfeeds again, you may need to takes herbal supplements or something to try to and pick up those 2 feeds again, if that makes sense - the milk for those 2 feeds would not be there anymore as your body would have worked out that bub did not need them.

Milk supply doesn't disappear overnight by doing this (in my case anyway) but a few days of doing a couple of bottles a day and you would notice a difference if you tried to breastfeed those particular bottlefeeds.

Sorry I'm kind of rambling! PM me if you want anymore info, i'll try to make a bit more sense! Christmas brain!!!

Merry Christmas! and good luck with feeding. It sucks when you feel like a feeding station/milk bar 24/7!!

xoxo Sonia

[nkenward]

Hi there Hayleylea,

I know exactly how you feel. My bubs just seemed to be grizzly though all the time, and when I was breastfeeding it seemed he was attacking my breasts as if he couldn't get enough out. And then during the night I just couldn't get him attached properly on each breast - I sat there for about 1/2 hour of him attaching for a second and then coming off. Very frustrating. Then about Mon. last week he just seemed extra grizzly, and nothing my hubby or i could do to calm him.

So Wed. night hubby made the decision to try formula - well he is a totally different bubby. I know it is not for everyone - but he now rarely cries - he is always smiling and we don't have the endless 'colicky hour' cries of an evening. I am still breastfeeding every 2nd feed at the moment, but I am so more relaxed at the moment cause DH can help out more, as well as anyone else that pops in for a visit. So I believe he just needed that extra something to fill his little tummy.

The only issue is that we are watching to make sure he still has his bowel movements to ensure that he doesn' get constipated. But he has taken to the bottle so well. I realise that my breastmilk supply will become non-existent at some stage - but DH believes it is not an issue when he can see that bubs & I are both happier. But we have made the 3 month mark and I think that is a great start for my little boy.

Good luck, I do believe that bubs maybe just re-hydrating himself more often if it is warmer, and he may just be needing to increase is intake - but to do that your body maybe just a few days behind in having the adequate supply. ie: demand = supply.

[pickles]

In reply to the first question in this thread. do what feels right for you. I breastfeed / bottled expressed milk with my first baby until she self weaned at 8 months. With my second no matter how much i expressed i could never get enough for that extra 'top up' in the evening. so at 8 weeks i introduced a bottle of formula. i have had no problems with nipple confusion etc. the health department in WA has also put out literature saying that you no longer need to sterilize bottles. you just wash in hot soapy water, rinse and store in fridge. my son has just started to wean at 9 months but actually takes very little in the way of formula ( around 200mls per day ) . he just really enjoys food !! my goal in the next month is to try and get rid of bottles in favour of cups. good luck
pickles
DD 02/03
DS 03/05

[pegasus]

Hi guys

Hey pickles - I was just going to ask if anyone else had heard about that sterilising thing:) I was at my sister's yesterday (she's got a 8week old she's complimentarily feeding) and she told me the same thing. I would believe it as I've worked in kids therapy and we were always debating how to best sterilise the therapy toys between kids (Milton, soapy water etc). Anyway, the physio I worked with was a pretty good stickler for finding research backed things and said the latest was the warm soapy water thing. On the bottle front - I expressed from 10weeks when I went back to work (3half days a week - so one feed a day) - and sterilised bottles till about 10 or so months when DS started putting lots of things in his mouth including food - I then just did the soapy water thing).

Back on the main part of the topic - I feel for you Hayleylea - I nearly gave up feeding my DSmany times due to worry that my milk supply wasn't up to par, I felt like I was feeding him all the time etc... My CHN weren't overly much support (they said do what's right for you, and I really didn't know what was right for me and bub - except I knew all the literature on benefits of bm) and I was living a 5hour plane flight from mum, sis friends etc. I then happened to come accross one really good nurse one day who suggested that DS wasn't getting enough hind milk. I'd always been told that DS would only stay on as long as he needed and shift to the other side. This nurse suggested he was getting only really foremilk (sometimes he only stayed on for 5-10mins - and he was only a couple of months old) so she suggested I put him back on and force him to drink again from the same side before moving him to the other side. Like a miracle I saw his feeds move out from 1-2hourly to 3-4hourly. I'm definitely not saying this is the case with your bub, just sharing my story. I ended up finding I couldn't wean my DS off bm to formula (tried to give him some formula when DH and I had an overnight stay away after he was 12months, but he refused), so I ended up feeding him till he weaned himself at 16months (to taking milk from a sipper cup) - just in time for my bod to get ready for the next bub.

Anyway - my sis is complimentary feeding for what can only sound like similar reasons to you (she was waking 2hourly to feed at night), and since she started the formula - she's coping much better. I support her in whatever she does, like she supports me in what I do (except with the stress in my voice and being so far away, when I was having problems, there was the "try a bottle of formula at least at night" from her and my mum).