Which Formula?

[LotusMum]

Just wondering which formulas you guys use for your reflux babies? I was usuing just normal Karicare, but the GP has told me to use Soy. I have reservations about Soy so I thought Id ask what you all use.

[Astonsmum]

I'm on to baby #2 with Reflux and for both we used a normal formula (karicare gold) and bought the karicare thickner to add seperately. You can add it too any formula you like as well and adjust how thick it is. The thickened formulas you can buy were always too thick for my 2. My 2 have also been on medication - DD was on zantac and now DS is on losec (very expensive losec is!!) I was never told to change to soy and we have been in the care of a paediatrician the whole time so unless your little one has some kind of allergy I am not sure why they would suggest that?

Good luck!

[bekkyboo]

My son was also in the care of a peads, he told us to get s26 AR, it helped alot.

[Melagaggie]

Bubs was on Karicare AR but he was constipated on that so we changed him to Karicare HA AR and so far so good....I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[LotusMum]

Thanks guys. josie is on Losec already. We are seeing a peadiatrician in April. Unfortunatly my fears regard the fact that she is not putting on weight. The dr thought soy as there may be an intollerance to cows milk, although there is no signs that point to it apart from reflux.
Come to think of it, the last bottle I gave her was soy and she didnt throw up on it. Hmmm. I really dont know what to do as Soy is not a good option due to many different reasons most of which I found on the Dr Sears website.

[FourAngelKisses]

We used Enfalac AR. It didn't help much at all, but she was a severe refluxer. Even propping her upright and putting her on solids didn't help. The only thing that helped was Prepulsid and Zantac.

[ZarasMummy]

Zara has reflux and we have her on the Karicare AR and she keeps it down. She has also been on Losec but by far the most effective thing has been her chiropractic treatment that she has been having for the last month!

[Nowhere]

my dd is a servere refluxer and she is on Neocate formular it is a perscrition one and is dairy and soy free as she is Milk soy protein intolerant which is a common problem amongst refluxers to thicken it i use gaucol we tried every thing and for her that was the best one she still refluxes a lot and has a lot of pain but she is very servere and only been feeding oraly for 2 months now and she is a year old

i noticed you said your baby is on losec mikenzee is also on that amongst her other medications and i just houhg i would let you know in case you dont already but you can actualy get it compounded so that you dont have to go disolviing tablets as i know how much that sucks and i have found that with the compound it works batter as you can be sure to get it into them properly and also the buffer in it protects the losec beads until it gets to the stomache so the works most afectively but yes like one of the others said yep losec is expensive especialy on a hight dose we pay 60 dollars a month for ours as we get a compound every 14 days but its worth it

[LotusMum]

Mackenzies mum, I think I am actually dealing with a milk soy protein intollerence also. I have been doing a little research lately and it seems like this is the case. The dr suggested at our last visit that we try soy. I wasnt ccomfortable with soy but thought, ok, if it works Ill try it. I gave it a go for two days and on the first no throw ups, on the second, we had throw ups again so I got rid of that. I know I didnt try it for long, but wasnt comfortable with the soy in any case. Since theen I have given her Karicare HA AR and only little vomits. So far so good.
Im not sure that this may be an indicator of the intollerence or that I am just trying to find an answer and this one seems to fit. I am assuming that since she hasnt vomited this week much, she will have put on weight (so far only 2 pounds since birth).
Josie is by no means as unwell as your little one as she is at least happy and is able to feed orally. She is still mostly only having little bottles (90ml - 150ml) but not throwing up so much, so maybe not reflux at all? I dont know what to do now or where to go to find out whats happening here or if I even need to find out and just get over it.
We have a paediatric apointment in April so i guess that might help.

[LotusMum]

Ahhhhh crikey. Now even though she has not been vomiting nearly as much on the new formula, she seems to be having runny yucky poohs on it. THere are no ideas left for me now excepting maybe that one that the paediatricians have to write a script for. This is rediculas. Anyone else have this problem? If it were a milk protein intollerence, she would have more of a reaction and it would have been quicker huh? Is this an option I should explore more thoroughly with our doctor?

[Nowhere]

she can have a milk protein problem be how you discribed i think your best bet is to talk ot over with the pead and tell them whats going on they may sugest a trial of neocate or elecare once you put her on it if it makes her better then you wil know she is milk protein intoleraent

[kiwibird27]

Just wondering which formulas you guys use for your reflux babies? I was usuing just normal Karicare, but the GP has told me to use Soy. I have reservations about Soy so I thought Id ask what you all use.

Wouldn't even bother with your Gp, Go straight to a paed!! My experience is they don't know enough about babies, no matter how much they tell u they do.

To be honest if baby is taking bottles, throwing up but still gaining weight then thank whoever it is looking after you and stick to the same formula. Changing formulas alot can upset them too and as u found out one formula can give them diahorrea another can make them vomit, thickened feeds can cause terrible constipation.

There are lots of medications available. My daughter is on Losec, Zantac and Erythrymycin (to help with gastric emptying). they have been invaluable!!!

[ifoundmyglory]

Jett used, Novalac AR, and now he is on step 2 heinz nuture gold and Karicare thickener.
He was also on Zantac for a while and then Losec.

[LotusMum]

Josie has gained a huge amount of weight this week (300g!!!) and is still on the Karicare HA AR. However, she is still having very runny kaki brown very smelly poohs so although I am very happy with weight gain and the fact taht vomiting has slowed to very small amounts occasionally, I am wondering about the poohs. She is also very windy and very stinky at that end.
I will just continue on as I have been I think and just wait for the paed apt in April as she is gaining wait and seems to be happy. If those things are normal then runny stinky poohs shouldnt be a problem????? :fingerscrossed:
Thanks for all your advice. :)

[MrsP]

Suzi,

I've just put Evie onto the Karicare HA AR and we have found her to be more settled, but like you guys, have found her bottom end to be smelling really bad and she also has the runny khaki poos - I just thought it was because she changed over onto this formula and now that both our bubs have it, maybe it's what happens on this formula.

We've got a Paed appt on Thursday 12th, so will write again in this post as to what he says it could be.

[kiwibird27]

Thickened feeds can effect the other end alot unfortunately, but it's better than the reflux!!! Try giving extra water in between, if she will take it and not vomit it!!!!

[LotusMum]

Thanks for that, it would be great to hear what your paed will say. I have an appointment with one on the 17th so we can compare notes.
Since posting last, I have put her back on normal reflux formula. Her poohs are back to normal, but now she is not feeding much again. In the past ....... so many days she has finished three full bottles (either 150 or 200mls) and the rest she has maybe had 50mls from. She only put on 20g again this week gone.
She is now 4 months old and has put on around 4 pounds since birth. Thank god she started large, 9 pounds 1 ounce.
Thisis driving me crazy!!!! :banghead:

[bambino]

Ds is on Zantac for his reflux and is fully BF.

I've read your posts on adding thickner to your bubs formula, but what can I do for a BF refluxer ?

[Bambaloo]

Is anyone else using Nan 1 or Nan HA 1 Gold? Have been giving DD formula during day & expressed breast milk at night as have had heaps of breastfeeding troubles (decided to only formula feed as of today) & she has been up all afternoon screaming with bad wind pains/constipation. She took about 20ml of water but still hasn't poohed but is finally asleep ........... most days she sleeps most of the day & if she has formula at night will be awake after that during the night ... Any advice? Much appreciated!

[Angelbell]

Hi There both my children had reflux and I put them on Karicare AR it stayed in the stomach alot longer.I found that because it is thicker it is easier on the tummy.:thumbsup:
I used normal formula and when the had nearly finished the bottle or half way through, I would wear the whole lot!I would be covered from head to toe!:barf:
If bubs was intolerance of cow's milk ever single bottle would be coming back up.
You will find that she will not drink as much because the thickened formula fills there tummy quicker then normal so don't worry to much,If she get's back into a pattern she will start putting weight back on.Only be concerned if she is losing weight.
The lose Poo could be because her tummy my need to get use to the formula if she has been on a few different ones,her body is probably trying to get use to a new one again.
Good luck I know it took me a long time to get things going normally,well as normal as possible with reflux.:fingerscrossed:

[Shajbm]

Hi there,

My boys are quite refluxy and the paediatrician has Matthew on 1ml of Mylanta before every feed. Both boys are on NAN HA Gold and they feed beautifully on it.

Regarding the intolerance, if this was the problem then you would be wearing it at every feed. My paediatrician doesn't recommend using thickeners but it would be best to discuss this with him/her when you see them.

Where abouts are you based and who is your paediatrician?

[raisingwhirlwinds]

Ds is on Zantac for his reflux and is fully BF.

I've read your posts on adding thickner to your bubs formula, but what can I do for a BF refluxer ?
Bambino, have you had the amount of zantac changed as your baby grows because the dosage amt is weight related.

[raisingwhirlwinds]

Just wondering which formulas you guys use for your reflux babies? I was usuing just normal Karicare, but the GP has told me to use Soy. I have reservations about Soy so I thought Id ask what you all use.
Hi, if you want to try an alternative to the soy option iyou could try a lactose free option.
My DS2 used S26 Lactose Free formula.
Both of my darlings had reflux and runny poos and they both ended up being lactose intolerant.

[Nowhere]

Ds is on Zantac for his reflux and is fully BF.

I've read your posts on adding thickner to your bubs formula, but what can I do for a BF refluxer ?


im not a bf mum but i do know a few from the childrens hospital and the peads there sugest Useing gaucol you mix it up with water and then syringe a but in b4 in the midle and at the end of a bf an it thickens the milk once in the tummy

[MrsP]

Hey Suzie,

Got word from the Paed today re the Karicare HA AR formula...

Nothing wrong with bowel movements & passing wind that clears a room - some formulas do that evidentally :eek:

One thing I wanted to bring to your attention though is that he told me that this formula DOESNT contain the essential OMEGA 3 & 6 that is required in their diet.

Won't go into too much detail about our visit, but suggested that whilst finishing off this formula before starting another one he wants bub on, I'm to add the contents of a fish oil capsule to the morning & afternoon feeds to get the required Omega fats. I was a bit taken back by this at first, and worried that she wouldn't take bottle, but he said that she should & if I have a prob, just change to the new formula.

Would be interesting to hear what your Paed says too, so please keep me posted :)

:wave:

[LotusMum]

Hmmm thats interesting. Its the only formula she will take. Although shes gotten really pukey again. This week she put on 80g so thats something.
I dont think Ill put anything in the formula at this stage until I speak to paed, but I will bring it up with him. How interesting. You would think that all formulas would contain everything they need wouldnt you?
Im starting to come to the conclusion that there is nothing more I can do and that my baby is just a fussy eater and Ill just have to persevere until she starts solids. She is a very happy bub and is still cchubby and developing well. She just isnt interested in feeding.
I will let you know how we go at the paed.

[iluvmeboyz]

i used Karicare thickend formula

[LotusMum]

I saw the paed today and just thought Id get back to you.
He reakons all is fine. Her weight gain although is not huge is still sufficient to keep her at an average level. he also said that the formula is the cause of the poo issue and that its fine.
I asked about the omega 3 stuff and he said that every so often, formula companies find a new "thing" that is in breastmilk that absolutly MUST be in formulas so they add it in and then market it in the way that if you dont buy their new formula you are causing harm to your baby. He reakons its fine as it is and not to add anything and that she will get everything she needs from the formula and food when she gets to that stage.
I guess its just a choice thing. Im a bit reluctant to add anything to formula as I would hate to muck around with their levels of stuff, but totally get why you would want to. I guess we'll just carry on carrying on and relax now.
I feel like a huge weight is off my shoulders now. Wish Id thought to ask if I can take her off the losec. I dont think she needs it as although she is a chucker, shes a happy one. Oh well.

[Bambaloo]

Hello

I have switched to the S26 Gold now as it was the same price at the discount chemist as the Karicare GOld I was gonna switch too.

It is so good, Ella is more settled, burping straight away, barely any wind pains & has been doing 2 poohs per day since being on it (2 days) and they have gone back to normal colour (they were like green fingerpaint & smelt like dog pooh!) Sorry TMI!

Only thing is the formula stinks - at least Nan smelt nice, like milk powder! Also she likes the dosage for 3-4month olds at 180ml as she was used to 150ml on Nan whereas S26 Gold says for her age, up to 2 months it should be 120ml.

Anyway just thought I'd share :)

[raisingwhirlwinds]

I saw the paed today and just thought Id get back to you.
He reakons all is fine. Her weight gain although is not huge is still sufficient to keep her at an average level. he also said that the formula is the cause of the poo issue and that its fine.
I asked about the omega 3 stuff and he said that every so often, formula companies find a new "thing" that is in breastmilk that absolutly MUST be in formulas so they add it in and then market it in the way that if you dont buy their new formula you are causing harm to your baby. He reakons its fine as it is and not to add anything and that she will get everything she needs from the formula and food when she gets to that stage.
I guess its just a choice thing. Im a bit reluctant to add anything to formula as I would hate to muck around with their levels of stuff, but totally get why you would want to. I guess we'll just carry on carrying on and relax now.
I feel like a huge weight is off my shoulders now. Wish Id thought to ask if I can take her off the losec. I dont think she needs it as although she is a chucker, shes a happy one. Oh well.
Suzie, you could trial removal of the losec. I did this with my DS2 (he was on zantac), tried removing it for 24 hrs or so every 4-6 weeks. You'll know pretty quickly whether you need to keep it up - you'd probably see changes in sleep patterns and behaviour and general whinginess if the reflux is still there.
D

[LotusMum]

Oh the reflux is def still there, but I dont think it ever caused her to stop feeding now so I dont think its warrented. I think she was always a happy chucker who cant be bothered drinking heaps.
What is a concern though is that although the dr reakons the formula is ok, and the poos are ok, she is getting shocking nappy rash from them and they are with each bottle.
Im not sure what to do as its not good switching all the time and lets face it, it aint cheap either, but there must be a happy medium right?
Ordinary reflux formula she wont have a bar of, normal forumla and shr vomits up a storm. Whats left?

[raisingwhirlwinds]

Suzie, earlier in this thread you raised the question of whether bubs might have a milk protein allergy. Did the doc raise this issue with you again??

I had a problem with DS2 over easter - my hubbie gave him an easter egg (he has been off lactose since the first day I tried him on it). That afternoon he had the worst nappy and vicious nappy rash. The nappy issues have continued for more than a week, and he had severe nappy rash each time he had a bad nappy for a few days which included a huge red welt on his leg where the poo had touched it.

D

[Shajbm]

Oh the reflux is def still there, but I dont think it ever caused her to stop feeding now so I dont think its warrented. I think she was always a happy chucker who cant be bothered drinking heaps.
What is a concern though is that although the dr reakons the formula is ok, and the poos are ok, she is getting shocking nappy rash from them and they are with each bottle.
Im not sure what to do as its not good switching all the time and lets face it, it aint cheap either, but there must be a happy medium right?
Ordinary reflux formula she wont have a bar of, normal forumla and shr vomits up a storm. Whats left?

Suzie, I was just reading up on your nappy rash issue. You could try and get some Desitin(I think that's how you spell it). My amcal chemist does this special nappy rash cream and it is wonderful. Apparently people come from everywhere to buy it. Are you in Melbourne?

[LotusMum]

I raised the issue of the intollerence and the ever wonderful paed ignored it. I wish I had persisted. The poos have been like this for nearly a week now and I have since switched formulas to Karicare Gold Plus and a food thickener just in case it really is that particular formula. She still has it. I am now fed up and really pi$$ed off and am taking her to the doctor AGAIN to demand that they test her. If its ordinary gastro which I know is going around, then fine, but she is absolutly fine in every single way apart from the poos and now a slightly runny nose (which can also be a sign of an intollerence or allergy).
Honestly this is a joke. I wish a doctor would just listen properly rather than just hearing some of it and putting it down to me being a crazy mum. If I get her tested and its normal gastro, then I will shut up and stop worrying.
Also, thanks for recommending the nappy cream, but I remembered something I did with DD1. Weak camomile tea works wonders. All you do is brew up a batch, cool it down and wipe the nappy area with it and let it air dry. Camomile not only reduces the rash, relieves some pain, but also is mildly antiseptic so it cleans it well too. I know it sounds weird, but it works so well. Rash is gone now.
Thanks everyone for replying to this thread. I actually think we need more information on formulas and their ingredients and uses out there. There really is so little information out there.

[ZarasMummy]

I wouldn't recommend taking bubby off the Losec if she is still refluxing as it is actually used to repair the problem over a period of time rather than give temporary relief.
I tried to take DD off the Losec and found she was still the same so after pulling my hair out with frustration we decided to take her to the chiropractor. It was there that we found out a few other issues she had and I have to say the chiro was much more helpful than our doctors.
I have a great chiropractor and am in North Brissy....I would really urge to consider it, it has changed our lives. You can just call and ask her to go in for a chat without being obligated to go ahead with any treatment....I know it sounds scary but it really isn't.
Sorry to :ecomcity: , I just am trying to help others get the fantastic results our DD has had without drugs....feel free to PM me if you would like the details.

[raisingwhirlwinds]

Hi Suzie, I'm so sorry you were fobbed off by the paed. Unfortunately I had the same story with DS1, even about the reflux. I found doctors and paeds just didn't want to diagnose milk/lactose allergies when babies are little??

I hope you have better luck with the doctor at getting tested. You must be sooooooo frustrated!
D

PS. I'm sending this message at some crazy hour of the morning because DS2 has been throwing up. Lovely end to his second Birthday - poor darling.

[Proudofmy3Babies]

Hi Guys,

Mackenzie has reflux, and we tried Zantac etc, and she was still refluxing, so we switched to Dr Browns Bottles, they are supposed to be the best you can buy, and are patented, they have a valve technology that stops reflux, colic and spitup. They were recommended to me at a parenting group where a mother had a bub with Silent Reflux and Paed suggested they get them.

They are fantastic, we switched to Dr Browns and her reflux is all but GONE:)

Also, we switched to S26 AR from Karicare AR because she was still refluxing on it, S26 was more convenient because your supposed to give it to bubs at room temperature and it thickens in their belly instead of trying to get bub to drink a think gluggy formula, and it seems to of done the trick, if its heated though she refluxs.

But in saying that Karicare AR did reduce the colic and Ive seen a child healthcare nurse who recommends everyone use Karicare AR even if bubs doesn't have reflux.

Hope this helps, but I highly recommend the switch to Dr Browns Bottles, they aren't easy to track down, but Baby Biz in the Gold Coast (Burleigh) and Brisbane (Springwood) stock them if your in that area.

Mel

[raisingwhirlwinds]

My son had severe reflux.
Started on S26.
Switched to S26 AR (didnt work at all).
Switched to Karicare HA AR (took the screaming away, but still vomited every 10 mins or so).
Only 2 weeks ago switched to the plain Karicare AR, and he only vomits a couple of times a day now :smiliedance: definately what ill be using from the beginning next time!
Soy is for intolerance, not reflux, I find it unusual he told you to use that if the problem is reflux.
There is a significant link between reflux babies and milk and/or lactose intolerance which is why the Doctor would have suggested it.
D

[LotusMum]

Just to fill you in. Took DD to the usual dr and she has ordered tests on her "stools" to check for rotavirus, and intollerences/allergies. havent got resulsts back yet so we'll see. Probably looks to be just a case of gastro though. Thank god!!!!
She still has it though.
I have switched to Karicare Gold + and use the thickened formula which is no better/no worse than before I suppose, but easier to find and I can control how thick I want the formula to be or even to make it into a paste for after her bottle.
To clarify, she was put on soy in case she had an intollerence that was causing reflux like symptoms and not because of the reflux itself. There is a very strong link to this happening and apparently a lot of babies that seem to have reflux actually dont, they have an intollerence instead....however, most babies that have problems with milk proteins also have probs with soy proteins as well so I guess its not much of a help there.
I have weiged Josie the last two weeks, last week she lost 10 gms and this week she has gained it back, so I guess its just the way she is and I need to keep remembering that. Its hard when your child has so many things going on that seem unusal.
Oh, and I tried the Dr Browns bottles (well, similar anyway, they are a brand called Health check) and they did nothing. She hated them in fact, but if they work for you fabo as they also come with a heat guage that lets you know if the bottle is too hot.

[kellieanne08]

Liam had reflux from birth and I had to stop breastfeeding as he had quite a bad case of it. I used S26 reflux ( it was the best ).
Liam is 12months old next week and his reflux has gone since and he is on cows milk ( big progress!).
I would recommend S26 reflux formula as being the best on the market.
Good luck with it ( hope it improves for you )