Sins of the father

[Mamaduke]

Hi girls,
Before I get started, please let me say that DH is a wonderful, gentle, caring man who is a fantastic provider and I have no doubt whatsoever in regards to how much he loves me and the boys...
but...
I do notice that he tends to be a bit too hard on our eldest son who is 4. I think he expects too much from him in regards to discipline and being tidy. He thinks that I let him get away with too much - I tell him that I'm not going to carry on about trivial things, and I say to him "pick your battles" which he thinks translates to "let him get away with everything" - which is not true at all, but I am with him all day every day and if I was to carry on about every little thing I would go insane! DH has been brought up to always have the house spotless, that children should be seen and not heard, and that toys are to be packed away where no one can see them. I, on the other hand, want my kids to feel that this is their home and they should be able to feel relaxed and not constantly worried about messing up the furniture. When we go to his parent's house (I'll call it a house because it's not a home) everyone is quite uncomfortable and always worried that one of the boys is going to knock something over or spill something. One day Jesse went and sat up on the couch (in the good room) and DH let out a big "OHHHHH" like he'd just taken to it with a Stanley knife! I told him to relax and that couches are for sitting on, not just looking at through the front window. Another time DH dropped the remote and the back came off, he practically started crying (this is no exaggeration) and his mother ran around frantically saying, "tell your dad I did it!" - until Jesse found the back and everything was calm again.
DH has told me that his father was very strict with him - even taking to him with a horse whip when DH accidentally hit his sister with a piece of wood. He says he can remember being dragged out from under the bed and his dad whipping him! I asked him if he thought that that was a just punishment and he said no - I told him I was relieved with his answer because if he ever did that to my boys he'd better sleep with one eye open for the rest of his life! DH grandfather wasn't much different - he used to tie DH to a tree to stop him from getting into things and would put plastic on the back seat of the car every time DH was in it. These people are obsessed with being tidy!
The other day I walked into the lounge room and I saw DH standing over Jesse telling him off - and to a small child, to have a 6ft 5 man standing over you would be very intimidating. I spoke to DH about it and he was sorry and realised that he needed to get to Jesse's level if he wanted to speak to him.
I am worried that when my boys get older they will follow in their dad's footsteps of rebelling, getting into trouble, mucking up at school and getting into the wrong crowd - all because of the treatment they get at home.
How do I stop this cycle from continuing? I don't want to live in a house where my children don't feel comfortable and I don't want the sort of father/son relationship that I see DH have with his father.
Let me stress that DH has NEVER laid a hand on either of the boys and I'm 100% sure he never would, but I really think he is too hard on Jesse (Lucas is only 18mths so he isn't a problem) and he expects too much from a little boy. Where do I start to break this cycle - they are the best of friends and get along famously, but I'm worried that the constant badgering by DH will eventually make Jesse steer clear of him and not want a relationship with him (just like him and his father)
Carly

[WeThree]

hi carly, ive read some of your posts regarding your dh family before, and they seem very odd to sa ythe least!

i have very similiar issues with my dh, in fact reading your post was like reading something I could have written. he often tells me stories of things his dad said and did and how it made him feel (bad of course) he has little respect for his father now, and although he loves him, really only tolerates him for his mothers sake, yet i often see so much of his father in him when he is disciplining our boys that it is scary. i tell him this, and we have had many many a talk about it and he agrees, but he gives up so quickly and just reverts back to the old way of doing things, he expects instant results, i try telling him that making a great family takes yrs of hard work and dedication, but he just wants the instant gratification of yelling at them:(
like your dh he is a wonderful man and a fabulous father, but this one issue is really getting me down, one day he came tearing down the hallway towards cooper cause he was tired and had a bad day and coops kept getting out of bed, coops was terrified!! i said to him 'can you imagine how that was for him??' he told me to shut up:eek: as i made him feel really guilty~good!!!
i know he doesnt want to be like his dad, and that he wants our kids to feel differently towards hin than he did towards his dad, but he doesnt know any other way! im at a loss, cause we only really have a small window of time to set the stage for how our relationship with our kids wil lbe a s they get older, and at the moment im not really liking what i see sometimes:( i posted asking for help about this once before as well, in the attachment parenting section, it is so hard when you have different ideas on discipline and im afraid no one really had any answers!! im hoping for your sake (and mine lol) that someone does this time!! 90% he is a wonderful dad, and its not like hes abusive or anything, but there is definite room for improvement!!
anyway sorry for the extremely long post, but your post struck a chord with me and once i started i couldnt stop!!!

[Tisme]

one thing I have done with my little man is to sit him down while I have him to myself (alana asleep or playing elsewhere) and I ask him to write Daddy a letter. Through this I'm trying to get him to admit to my other half that is scared witless of him and that he misbehaves to try to get his attention. I can see where my other half is VERY hard on Ciaran and unfortunately his deal hand out his fair share of naughty smacks for trivial things sometimes. He realises that he comes down to hard, but thinks because Ciaran repeats the behaviour that this means that he hasn't undertood that it is a no so has to be dealt with hard again.

Ciaran so far has wrote 7 letters to Daddy saying "I love you and I miss you at work". "I want you to stay home more" (He works and travels an average of 65-70 hours per week) and "I don't like smacks they hurt too much."

I just get on the computer and get him to tell me the words he wants to write and then get him to type them. I don't fix his spelling (like his name spelt ciiiiaraaaan ... LOL) and I don't correct grammer. The first time my other half recieved the letter he went into shock cos it was three lines of Ciran saying "I love you".

Good luck.

[WeThree]

yup its definelty a generational thing, dh grandfather was a horrible man who was much much worse than his father and terrorised his father as a child, and like KB said, it is left up to us to try and pick up the pieces!!:(

has anyone else noticed that their dh's are not as hard o ntheir girls? this has been my observation and something that i am yet to bring up with dh. matilda is too young yet to see how he will be with her, being a blameless baby and all, but ive noticed he is often quite different with his older dd, i mean she is quieter etc but he is still not nearly as hard on her as he is on the boys.

[Mamaduke]

Erin,
Part of me feels bad that this is happening to other kids, but part of me is comforted knowing that my DH isn't the only one battling his own demons through his children.

but he doesnt know any other way
That's exactly right! And this is what I need help with - we have all the books on being great parents but where is the book - "Your father was an ******** - 10 ways to avoid being one yourself" I would buy that in a second!!!

Eleanor,

Through this I'm trying to get him to admit to my other half that is scared witless of him and that he misbehaves to try to get his attention.
"I love you and I miss you at work". "I want you to stay home more" (He works and travels an average of 65-70 hours per week)
I totally agree and have said it to DH a thousand times, he misbehaves because that is the only way he knows to get your attention. DH is constantly saying that if we don't enforce rules and boundaries now, how will we be able to do it when he's 16 or 17. I just remind him that he had all sorts of rules and boundaries set for him and ask him to remember what exactly he was doing at 16 or 17 - DH was a promising young AFL player, was sent to Melbourne to train with an AFL team and threw it all away to hang out with losers and get into trouble - gee, those rules, boundaries and discipline really worked for him! It was only when he met me that he settled down, got himself a steady job, got rid of the d*ckhead mates and got back on track. I just hope I can steer him in the right direction with this. I will try the letter - I know that when DH talks to Jesse on the phone from work (he works the same hours as your hubby) DH does get teary and misses Jesse, but as soon as he's home it's on!
Carly

[Mamaduke]

Kevinbudgie,
Alot happens while I'm writing my post!
I have read Raising boys and thought it was great, DH didn't seem too interested. I've told him he needs to go and do a parenting course (and I would go too) but he keeps putting it off.

[MariaO]

CarlyB,

I think you are already helping to break the cycle by dealing with this so openly with your DH. Does your DH agree that his parent's house does not feel like a home? If so, then I think you should keep plugging away at him to attend a parenting course with you, or at least to read the parenting books.
If you keep this on the agenda then surely he can not help but deal with his demons. Well done all of you for your care and understanding (of both your husbands and your children).

[sopolicha]

That's exactly right! And this is what I need help with - we have all the books on being great parents but where is the book - "Your father was an ******** - 10 ways to avoid being one yourself" I would buy that in a second!!!


I would like to go on the waiting list for that book please!! No problems with girls only the boy.

[JoJo1stbub]

Hey I read your post and it reminded me of my step dad and my younger brother. I dont know what it is but they just seemed to clash. And my step dad was very hard on him. He was fine with me and most of my other siblings, but he took it out on my younger brother, who really didn't take it well. My mum was and still is very upset at the way my brother was treated and would then sook him up and let him get away with stuff to try to offbalance the harshness from my step dad.

My brother moved out at an early age and tried living with our real dad and his new family, but soon realised they too weren't interested in him. I feel really sorry for my brother who is now 17 and very mixed up. He lives in a flat underneath my sisters house, but really doesn't even know how he is. He has tried so hard to fit in that he has lost who he really is.

I think it is very important for both parents to do the 'parenting', which includes discipline. I don't actually have any children yet, am pregnant with my first, so I can't speak as a parent yet, but I have 4 brothers and 4 sisters, and three of my sisters have children and I am very switched on to observing different ways of bringing up children, as I am trying to get an idea of how I will do so.

I really think you are doing the right thing by talking to DH about how you feel about his way of handling things. I feel it is very important to discuss how discipline should be carried out and you should decide together as a couple how you will carry out discipline for each child, as the are all different and have different needs and respond to different tactics. Once you have decided how you will carry out the discipline you need to both stick to what you have agreed. Regularly discuss how you think it is going, whether you are both sticking to what was agreed, how the child is responding and see if you need to adjust your methods.

I know getting DH to stick to what you have agreed may be hard, but maybe if you are discussing it, listen to what he has to say, and make some compramises. But help DH to appreciate that your son doesn't resond well to the 'towering over' tactics and that if he tried something else he may see quicker better results. Which I can see you are trying to do.

I just know from my family that if the father is harsh and the mother is too soft and child will resent the father and walk all over the mother, there needs to be a balance.

Not sure if this helps but is just what I feel, coming from my own families experience.

JoJo

[Peaceangels]

Carlyb, thank you for starting such a thread, because it really is something that need's to be discussed and hopfully provide some answers.

I'm no expert, but what really needs to happen is to "break the cycle" (easier said than done I know).........

At some point in our lives we need to stop blaming others (mainly our parents) and take responsibility for who we are and how we can improve on that (I have been down this path for entirely different reasons).

The sad part about it is that children learn from what they see us do or say, so now is the time to break that cycle while the children are still young enough to reap the rewards.

Dr Phil had an interesting point once - the same sex parent is the biggest role model in a child's life (in your case it would be their dad).

Maybe get your DH to sit down and write a letter about his childhood, what memories he has and how he feels about it.

Writing things down is a bit like therapy (your letting go of it, not holding on to it) and he may see thing's differently or he may see the pattern that is being created for his own children.

[reAllytee]

That book you were talking about sounds great ! lets start it ! :D
My partner was mentally, emotionally & physically abused as a child by his father. One of the worst moments being that at the age of 17yrs after having a major life threatening operation to which he did die on the table at one stage that he his father wished he did die cause he hated him & didnt want him around any longer plus wouldve saved him the hassle of doing it himself. He was often told he was going to be killed by him often backed into a corner which is always great on a small child.
Whats worse is that these days his father seems to be trying to make up for it by helping us with our renovations now the good thing is he seems really sorry for what he has done shame my MIL hasnt the same way of thinking she still wont even acknowledge what happened & basically waves my partners complaints off with a " Oh havent you gotten over that yet ? " !!!!!!! Geeess im sorry but since when was my father who is meant to love me instead only wants me dead something i can just "get over" ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Sometimes i wish i could go up to both of them & say my peace but then thats not worth the trouble. But my partner & i have talked about the fact that he does see a positive in his healing process with his father being so helpful & willing to at least try to do something right now after all that has happened.
I guess having them acknowledge that they dont know how to cope due to their lack of the "right" sort of parenting is a start. My partner is scared to death he will end up the same as his Dad so goes to the other extreme where he leaves a lot up to me, sometimes i find he is a little hands off on his parenting as he is scared he will do something wrong when all Harry wants is a cuddle. Not that discipline is something we are worried about yet as bubs is only just hitting 9mths so we are a way off yet. But i can see it being a problem as we do tend to follow in our parents footsteps especially when we dont know any better.
Wouldnt it be nice if there was a simple answer ? To not only be able to help your own child grow up happy & loved but to also help heal the wounds of your other half.

[Mamaduke]

Peaceangels,

Dr Phil had an interesting point once - the same sex parent is the biggest role model in a child's life (in your case it would be their dad).
I tell DH this over and over again! I told him that I can only do so much, but it's him that the boys will learn from and follow.
Actually, I just had a fantastic idea - I'm going to buy Dr.Phil's book Family Matters for DH for Christmas - he's going to have time to read it over the Christmas/New Year break and if he doesn't (he's not a reader like me) I'll just read it to him, laying in bed, when he's all attentive & waiting for sex!LOL
Seriously though, I like your idea...

Maybe get your DH to sit down and write a letter about his childhood, what memories he has and how he feels about it.
I think he would do this as sometimes (very rarely) when he does open up I almost cry at the way he was brought up and wonder how he could speak to them again.
But like one poster said, we have to stop blaming our parents for everything and that's why I need this nipped in the bud, so in 30 years time my sons won't be in the same position with their families.
Carly