View Full Version : I saw Jacobs teacher
FourAngelKisses
20-02-2007, 09:38
I got a phone call from Jacobs relief teacher yesterday asking to see me. He hasn't had his regular teacher yet as he has been on 6wks paternity leave since the first day back.
Anyhow...........
She said that he is VERY easily led by the other boys in the playground. In the classroom, he wont ask for help for about 5mins.......she can see him sitting there looking like he doesn't know what to do, but he wont ask for help for ages. If she asks him if he needs help, he will say no.
When she is speaking to him about something, he looks VERY uncomfortable, eyes wandering, hands fidgetting and he is smiling.
If he is sitting on the floor (she has him sit next to her so she can keep an eye on him, lol), he will sometimes start rocking or moving his mouth, she doesn't think he realises he is doing it.
He sits by himself in the classroom because he is easilly distracted by the other students (okay, this is all sounding really bad now that I'm typing it out and not hearing someone else say it :cry: ) and can't concentrate on his work with them around.
She said he is so much bigger than the other boys his age, yet his maturity level seems so much lower and he sometimes doesn't realise his own strength when out in the playground.
So neither of us really know what to do with him. She is going to work on getting him to ask for help when needed and I'm going to try and get him to talk about his day at school and encourage him to ask for help when needed.
Oh, another thing......she said he doesn't seem to be able to transfer being shown how to do something into being able to do the same thing. For example, on his homework the other week, he had to write numbers in their expanded form. I had no idea what it meant, so I looked it up on here and found it was really simple. So I wrote one out for him as an example and explained it in detail. Then I asked him to do the one on his homework. He said he couldn't do it, so I showed him, then asked him to do the same with the next one. Same thing, he said he didn't know how to do it.
So it looks like I might be making another trip to the pediatrition if things don't get any better. I want to get this all sorted out before he starts highschool in 3yrs. He needs to be able to ask for help by then and tell other kids no when they tell him to do something.
FourAngelKisses
20-02-2007, 10:32
Anyone?????
lukaelmo
20-02-2007, 10:43
I can't really help at all, I am a teacher, but for uni students, not the same thing at all...
The only thing I can really comment on, is that some students will NEVER ask a question in class. They are just too shy to do it. I can see in their faces that they don't understand, but can also see that they are going to keep their mouth shut.
To get around this, when I see people not getting it, I get them to work in pairs, putting stronger and weaker students together... no one wants to ask the teacher in front of everyone, but they are usually okay with saying to another student that they don't get it.
Once again though, these are 20 - 25 year olds that I am dealing with, not little people.
I hope someone else out there can help you.
FourAngelKisses
20-02-2007, 10:48
Aspergers Syndrome is something that has been on my mind since he was 4-5, I just don't know much about it and google is evil, so it is something I will be asking the pediatrition about if I take him back there.
But I will definately ask the teacher if maybe putting him with one of the "smarter" kids might help, thanks!!! Hopefully someone who wont distract him.
what are your reasons for thinking aspergers?? could you list them for me:o
FourAngelKisses
20-02-2007, 11:30
* delayed speech as a toddler (said first word at 20mths and was in speech therapy until 5.5yrs)
* never shows affection.....hates being hugged or kissed, never ever said the word mum and he is 9.5
* never interracted with other kids, preferred to play alone.....he plays soccer with the other boys at school, but will never initiate it, he will only play when invited to do so
* seems to have no compassion.......if someone hurts themself, he wont ask if they are okay or go get help. If he was the one who hurt them, he wont apologise.
* Having a conversation with him is one sided....he will only give 1 word answers.
* has never been able to stand/sit still....constantly fidgetting with things or fingers.
* has never been able to look you in the eye. If you hold his head still, his eyes will still wander.
* has never been able to ask for help with things if needed.
* if he has done something wrong, you can tell him what it was but he doesn't understand.
see your paed.
delayed speech is not a sign of aspergers, usually they develop quite well with speech, even early.
im no expert but alot of what your saying does not add up as aspergers to me, but everyone is different.
ETA why has your paed not mentioned it before? or have they and I have not realised
FourAngelKisses
20-02-2007, 11:40
ETA why has your paed not mentioned it before? or have they and I have not realised
He was assessed for ADD when he was about 7 because of the fidgetting thing, plus he would get up and wander around the classroom whenever he pleased. And as a toddler he was on the higher side of active (he ran at 10mths, never walked until he was 4).
Going off his report, ours and the teachers, he said it was all pretty inconclusive and he said "I don't think it is autism".
I was under the impression that he was fairly good at school last year, but I will go and ask the teacher that he had and see what he said. But I do feel that I really should take him back. I want this all sorted before highschool and puberty.
* delayed speech as a toddler (said first word at 20mths and was in speech therapy until 5.5yrs) no delay whatsoever
* never shows affection.....hates being hugged or kissed, never ever said the word mum and he is 9.5 sometimes does not like affection. says mum and dad all the time.
* never interracted with other kids, preferred to play alone.....he plays soccer with the other boys at school, but will never initiate it, he will only play when invited to do so has friends(this took a bit of work)
* seems to have no compassion.......if someone hurts themself, he wont ask if they are okay or go get help. If he was the one who hurt them, he wont apologise. understands compassion, and when someone is hurt etc (though sometimes needs to be reminded)
* Having a conversation with him is one sided....he will only give 1 word answers. not at all. can hold a conversation very well, sometimes gets distracted but what kid doesnt
* has never been able to stand/sit still....constantly fidgetting with things or fingers. hmm, doesnt every kid do this? at least some of the time?
* has never been able to look you in the eye. If you hold his head still, his eyes will still wander. ever?
* has never been able to ask for help with things if needed. alot of kids are like this
* if he has done something wrong, you can tell him what it was but he doesn't understand. what do you mean by that?
Before you even said it Angel kisses I did wonder about autism perhaps a mild form. I have 2 friends with autistic children, one is severe and one is mild and they show those symptoms you have described. But I agree with Emevity you need to go to a paed to get a diagnosis otherwise we are just speculating.
I agree with google being evil but maybe have a look at the Autism Association website, I think they have one in each state at least you will get factual sensible information there. Here is a link http://www.autismnsw.com.au/
What year at school is Jacob in? Have any other teachers previously said anything?
it does not sound like autism. maybe slightly aspergers but then again, maybe not. if you are unhappy with your paed or anyone, seek other opinions. they are very reluctant to diagnose aspergers til a certain age, which he is well older than. just be honest and dont self diagnose.
FourAngelKisses
20-02-2007, 11:52
* has never been able to look you in the eye. If you hold his head still, his eyes will still wander. ever?
Never, not even when he was 2.
* if he has done something wrong, you can tell him what it was but he doesn't understand. what do you mean by that?
He still doesn't understand what he has done wrong.
What year at school is Jacob in? Have any other teachers previously said anything?
He is in year 4. His kindy teacher was good, she knew his full medical background and would try and spend as much one on one time with him as she could (was easier then as there were only 15 kids in the class, compared to 32 kids now). She would sit him next to her at group time and keep him apart from the boys who distracted him.
His year one teacher was a total cow, she would blame him for things when it was his friends egging him on. She was one who had her favourite students and the rest were all left to suffer. I tried talking to her about him, but she wasn't interested.
His year 2 teacher was good as she was the principal. But she too had issues with his attention span, constant fidgetting, classroom wandering and talking in class. Things went from bad to worse in the last term when he had a different teacher every 2 days for 10wks straight.
Year 3....he made some progress, but still had the same issues. He was kept separated from everyone else.
Will speak to last years teacher and his current teacher this afternoon and then call the pead.
Never, not even when he was 2. hmm thats odd.
He still doesn't understand what he has done wrong. as in, if he is naughty or hurts a sibling, you tell him what he has done and why it is wrong and he what? just acts like nothing happened? is not sorry? just trying to clarify.
seperating him from everyone else cant be a good thing. I dont like the sound of his school or teachers to be honest.
BTW i am answering based off my brother, who 'officially' has aspergers and a son who almost officially has aspergers. there are so many different 'levels' KWIM.
It is true there are many levels and autism can be very mild if it is that at all. It may not be anything medical.
Good luck talking with the teachers and with the paed.
why are you still saying autism? they are totally different.
hun, if you can, have a read of the curious incident of the dog on the night-time by mark haddon. its about a boy with aspergers. and good luck with everything. remember if they try to blow you off or anything put your foot down.:yes:
FourAngelKisses
20-02-2007, 12:03
He still doesn't understand what he has done wrong. as in, if he is naughty or hurts a sibling, you tell him what he has done and why it is wrong and he what? just acts like nothing happened? is not sorry? just trying to clarify.
No, not at all sorry. He will cry because he is being told off, but he wont understand what he has done wrong. He thinks he is being told off because I'm being mean to him. Ask him why he did what he did, he will say he doesn't know.
Unfortunately, as he is disrupting 30 or so other kids, he has had to be put by himself. I am okay with that as I don't feel that the other kids should have their day disrupted by one student. At group time, he is put next to the teacher so that she can make sure he is paying attention.
I am just getting to the point where I don't know what to do anymore. I have been dealing with this since he was 2. We only have one pediatrition, who is more often than not booked out for 4mths in advance.
There is only one other school, but I refused to send him there as the kids are all bullies and I knew that they would slaughter him emotionally. The principal there also has a couldn't care less attitude.
I just worry about his future so much. :(
I do know how you feel. it is very difficult, especially living somewhere where you have very limited resources.
do you have disability services or child and family health unit? they can possibly get social workers, paeds, speechies etc to visist with him.
we needed a whole entourage of people to diagnose, and im still waiting.
FourAngelKisses
20-02-2007, 12:15
do you have disability services or child and family health unit? they can possibly get social workers, paeds, speechies etc to visist with him.
No :no: Last I heard we didn't even have a speech therapist anymore (she used to come once a month).
The school have a counsellor come once a month, I might book him in to see her again......he last saw her in year 1 I think, so it couldn't hurt for him to see her again. If he will talk to her. :rolleyes:
it really sucks that you have no real help or advice. :thumbsdown:
remember you cant force him to talk to a counsellor, but I tell you, its bloody good having someone to talk to yourself. our social worker is fantastic.
why are you still saying autism? they are totally different.
I'm not sure that is true. Asperger's Syndrome is on the autism spectrum, as are many other forms of developmental disorders - PDD-NOS, classic autism etc. Even ADD is sometimes referred to as being on the spectrum. I prefer to think of Asperger's as just another form of autism.
My son meets the criteria for autism, but they suspect that when he is older he will also meet the criteria for Asperger's syndrome. While he didn't have a speech delay as such, some parts of his language were very slow to develop - he is only now starting to use pronouns, correct prepositions and ask questions, and he is 4 and a half.
Angelkisses - my son will not ask for help from anyone except me. He had problems with his attention span and an inability to sit still but we have worked hard on it and he is much better (it has taken a year). He has sensory integration problems (common in all types of autism) and finds sitting still and listening hard to do. In my opinion it would be worthwhile seeking your paediatrician's opinion. If he is assessed it will simply show his strengths and weaknesses, so whether a disorder is diagnosed or not, it will give you some valuable information that could help you and his teacher work on a plan to help your son.
I was very afraid of my son being diagnosed with a a condition but to be honest it has meant that he has received the help that he has needed. :hugs:
I prefer to think of Asperger's as just another form of autism.
well I dont. I dont appreciate that at all. why cant my son or brother have their own disability instead of being lumped in with everyone else? aspergers is aspergers. autism is autism, leave them seperate.
though I doubt you will know what i mean when I say this.
BlakeNatsMum
20-02-2007, 12:36
Hey Jeanette,
I just found this thread on the new posts and thought I would comment on it..
First of all :hugs: to you, it is obviously very hard to know what to do in this type of situation.
I am definitely no Teacher, Doctor or Phychologist, however I would have to say there could be several factors or influences that need to be considered before "pidgeon-holing" Jacobs learning difficulties...
I believe that yes, he may have a learning difficulty of some type, however I wouldn't believe that it was something that couldn't be smartly worked out with abit of persistence in looking carefully at the problems and the behaviours..
The first thing that I thought of when reading this was the fact that you had mentioned that he had a "substitute teacher".. Now, Im not saying 'blame the substitute'.. I was thinking maybe there was some problem there perhaps.. Either a fear or a problem that hasn't been addressed or looked at.. There could be many different factors, a communication problem, a personality clash.. Just different things.. Kids have them, believe you me, when I was at school I had a fair few problems with a dislike of teachers!..
Other things that may be worth considering.. Maybe Jacob has a very small learning difficulty, which is no big deal, some kids need extra help and explanations of things and some don't.. Just because your child may / or may not have some sort of difficulty certainly does not mean that he is less brighter than the other children.. Some kids pick things up quicker than others, that's just how it works..
I would perhaps suggest that maybe Jacob have the help of an "integration" aid, or perhaps a tutor, to see whether that may help him. I believe that if someone spent that extra bit of time with him it would boost his confidence within himself, and will allow him to grow and learn a heck of alot more..
Also, of course, if you were worried that there may be some other source of problems, IE Mild Aspergers, or some other medical issue, then by all means, have him tested, if that will give you some peace of mind...
That's the only advice I can offer, but certainly my point in all of this is to consider all options before anyone can jump to any conclusions which may or may not be the case, you don't want any negative outcome of any of it. It needs to be handled, I believe, very cautiously and open minded!..
I am always here to chat!.. Just find me in MSN! :hugs:
Jen.
well I dont. I dont appreciate that at all. why cant my son or brother have their own disability instead of being lumped in with everyone else? aspergers is aspergers. autism is autism, leave them seperate.
though I doubt you will know what i mean when I say this.
Emevity - I'm confused as to why you would be upset? In the interests of autism advocacy I will perservere with trying to reason with you. Here is a link to a great paper written by Tony Atwood (he is a world renowned author and clinician specialising in Asperger's syndrome).
http://www.tonyattwood.com.au/publications.htm#Difference
Here is the conclusion of that article
Conclusion
Having reviewed the literature, we may be able to answer the question, is there a difference between Asperger's syndrome and High Functioning Autism? The reply is that the research and clinical experience would suggest that there is no clear evidence that they are different disorders. Their similarities are greater than their differences. We appear to be taking, particularly in Europe and Australia, a dimensional view of autism and Asperger' syndrome rather than a categorical approach. (Leekam, Libby, Wing Gould and Gillberg 2000). At present both terms can be used interchangeably in clinical practice.
As a mother of a child with autism I see terrible misrepresentation of my child in the media and in the general population. This both angers and saddens me. Instead of denying that your child has a form of autism or thinking that Asperger's is somehow a 'better' disorder, how about sticking up for our special kids and spreading the word about autism/Asperger's so that our kids can have a better life?
Instead of denying that your child has a form of autism or thinking that Asperger's is somehow a 'better' disorder, how about sticking up for our special kids and spreading the word about autism/Asperger's so that our kids can have a better life?
I am not doing any such thing. I told you you would have no clue.:rolleyes:
I am not doing any such thing. I told you you would have no clue.
What a rude thing to say. Of course I have no clue what is going on inside your head. You wouldn't expect me to would you?
Why don't you say what you mean instead of calling me names? There may be someone who could benefit from the information.
I have not called you names. I am saying you dont know what i mean. and you dont. lets leave it at that and let this thread go back on topic.
mum2peanut
20-02-2007, 20:03
I wrote a long reply earlier and my DD mashed the keyboard and I lost it. So I'm trying to remember what i wrote. :o
I am a teacher and have come across children with both autism and aspergers. From the experience I have with both, I think the symptoms your son is diplaying could be either.
Firstly I think make an appointment with your paed, and get a definate diagnosis. If he has either of these disorders he will be entitled to governement funding for his school, and therefore will be given an aid to assist in the classroom, or one on one time with an aid.
If your son's permanent teacher is not returning soon, I would recommend having a meeting with the principal so that he/she is aware of your concerns, our school has a channel of communication with parents where they can request meeting with the principal and higher level/experienced teachers.
I know for a casual teacher they may find it hard to deal with, one of the important things we have been taught in our training is the importance of routine. Also we have been told that visual cues also are helpful for chn with these disorders. Maybe you could make some suggestions?? I know the smallest change in a school day can set some of our chn off. Also many chn don't ask for help, but it is the teacher's job to monitor them anyway. The teacher should be keeping a close eye on your son's progress and helping him in any way they can. Personally I don't sit a 'smart' child next to a child who needs extra help as I personally don't think it's fair to burden a child with that reposnsibility.
I think until you have a definate diagnosis it will be hard to put anything into place tho, so I'd get onto that right away.
All the best.
ETA: Here are two info brochures I found, at least you can compare the two yourself
http://www.autismnsw.com.au/publications/AspergersDisorder.pdf
http://www.autismnsw.com.au/publications/WhatisAutism.pdf
FourAngelKisses
21-02-2007, 17:22
Thanks so much. I ducked in quickly this afternoon and asked if we could trial Jacob sitting next to someone he felt comfortable with so that he could ask them for help if he feels the need, so they are going to do that.
She did say that she asked the whole class today that if anyone needed help, could they sit on the floor with her and he did, so that was a big step.
Regular teacher will be back in 2.5wks.
Sorry this is brief, in the middle of making dinner, will reply properly later.
mummyof5
25-02-2007, 21:40
Just found this thread tonight Angelkisses, and was wondering if anyone has suggested fragile x syndrome to you. Has quite a few similarities to autism, but is a chromosomal disorder. Some 15% of boys with fragile x have an autism spectrum disorder too. There is a wealth of info out there if you google fragile x, so you can comare for yourself, but it is interesting to note that your son is on the big side too, most are, and eye contact will make xer's very uncomfortable, though they are can be quite sociable and happy. Delayed speech is very common, as is the paralell play, and hyperactivity.
Not saying he has fragile x, but it is very common and yet still not diagnosed alot of times until boys go through puberty and some of the physical attributes become more apparent.
BTW I am in the process of testing my whole family as we thought my 4 year old had it, but has tested normal, however my 2 year old daughter is a carrier, which means the others may be too, and either DH or I am too.
This probably hasn't helped, cause I just added something else for you to consider, but I will keep my :fingerscrossed: that you can get some answers for your boy, who by the way is 3 days younger than my eldest.
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