goin nuts

[veve]

hey guys -

I dont know if I can handle this anymore ... I am seriously struggling with this bfeeding ... Jack is definately keen to feed.. and the nurses in hospital assured me that I get him attached well - so why WHY does it still hurt???

yesterday was glorious.. I thought that we had gotten past the worst of it (blister had gone... cracked nipple had settled) - but last night I was almost crying with the pain at a late night feed... and this morning things are no better...

I dont know whether he is gumming me... but he only fed for 15 minutes this morning - which means he will be awake in approx 2 hours .. wanting more ..
I tried EVERYTHING to keep him awake ..

now I am sitting here with tears streaming down my face :( ... I am so tired.. and am actually fearing the next feed.. I have my first appointment with a CHN today - and I dont want to turn up an emotional wreck...

bottle feeds are really starting to look appealling...


***one more questions- after you have expressed and refrigerate... can you microwave breast milk??? they used warm water in hospital... but it takes SO long???***

xxx

[Jaileth]

Veve, I hope things get easier for you!

As far as microwaving breast milk, all the reading I've done says not to do it, as it can superheat some patches of milk, and leave others cool. Even though it might take longer, it sounds safer to use the warm water.

Sorry not much help, but good luck with the appointment today!

[nemosmum]

You sound alot like me Jen when O was a newbie, only I didnt have bubhub LOL what I would have given for a site like this way back then :D

I hated bf for the first 4 months, I would cry when bf O and I too dreaded the thought of O's next feed!

I envied ff mums and had thoughts every day about ff O, but I didnt partly because I felt so guilty, guilty just thinking about not bf and partly coz everyone around me was saying hang in there you can do this, it is worth while :)

DH was very very supportive and would tell me every day how proud he was of me bf our son..........how could I let them all down?

So I perservered and kept bf, after 4 months it got soooo much better and I ended up having an enjoyable time bf, I never LOVED it like some mums, but hey thats ok.

Im sorry Im rambling on lol when you obviously need a big HUG!

Hang in there Jen, you can do this. I know its hard and trust me I hated getting up every two hours to feed O day and night. Its exhausting and depressing (well it was for me!) but your not alone, we've all been there so we know how you feel.

The pain does go away, bf gets better, it gets easier, bubs will get stronger and be able to stay awake longer and feed better. You will get through this :)

That said, if you dont want to bf then dont, just let go of all the guilt and go buy some bottles and some formula. Trust in your own judgement, if bfeeding is not for you then dont do it.

But one warning you'll still have to get up every two hours LOL

Big HUGS to you and buba Jack

Sarah and O

I used a bottle warmer to warm up ebm, but I used the microwave to warm up bottles for O after he was weaned which was at about 11 months so Im not to sure what the answer is, someone will know though im sure.

[tickle]

Hi there! :)
I didn't really come into too many problems bfing O, just lucky I guess. So I can't give you any great advice on what to do. Sorry. Just try to hang in there and try ABA for some help / advice.
http://www.breastfeeding.asn.au/
Or try a lactation consultant for some help.
I really feel for you and I hope it gets better soon!

[oscarsmilkbar]

Hi Veve...hugs to you as I went through pain the first couple of weeks (one year ago) and it got better....

Definitely see your nurse at the CHC and she needs to watch you feed, what you are doing...
or if you can, a lactation consultant.

It maybe one of these things - nipple thrush (creams/ointments to treat), nipple vasospasm (if you suffer from the cold and your nipples get cold they can be extremely painful feeding) or incorrect attachment. These are three of the most common complaints.

You could also try hiring an electric breast pump and express until your nipples are back to 100% condition and then put the bub back on - this could be a couple of days...but you can express and give the breast milk in bottle to bub.

The Pigeon Bottle with the 0-3 months perilstaltic nipple would be the best for bubs transition and this early stage.

It may take some work to get it back to normal, or creams to take etc...but give it time and if you can't in the end...you are not a failure and any bub is happy on a boob or bottle :)

let me know how you go at the centre and if they are not much help see if there is a lactation consultant in your area...or do the pump option......

take care
xox

[sopolicha]

You poor pet - When my baby girl was about 3 weeks old I had the same thing - it got to the point where my nipples looked like they were being sliced off.

I went to a lactation consultant and as soon as a she put us in the right direction I had instant relief - even with the torn nipples.

I say bugger the CHN and find yourself a proper lactation consultant - well worth the money - less than a months worth of formula and bottles.

The one I saw was at Manly but there are other around - I think there is a link on bubhub here.

[whatwasithinking]

***one more questions- after you have expressed and refrigerate... can you microwave breast milk??? they used warm water in hospital... but it takes SO long???***

xxx

Veve

I microwaved ebm and still do for formula - put on for say 10-20seconds (try ten first and see how warm) and just shake the bottle when ready to feed.

Have done this for both children and haven't had a problem. Probably not the "correct/right" thing to do but do whatever works for you.

[madvoice]

The first few weeks of breastfeeding were an absolute nightmare. The only way I struggled through was with expressing and using a nipple shield (when Raleigh was actually on the breast). A lot of lactation consultants will not recommend them but it helped with the pain immensely and had no problems with attachment. I dried up when Raleigh was just under 4 months old. Spontaneously dried up for no real reason (well I do think stress had something to do with it) but I would've soldiered on if I had've kept supply.

[Tea Lady]

Hi Veve,

I just want to say I hope things improve for you. It's so so so so so hard when feeding hurts and the inconsiderate child just wants milk all the time! I second what others have said re finding a professional who knows about bf (not all CHN are that great in that department) and will take you seriously. Does bub have a white tongue or are you feeling a needle-like pain when the milk lets down? If so, you need to get checked for thrush - this doesn't go away by itself and makes a difficult situation a million times worse. I saw some lactation consultants at the Royal women's (Bris) and they were really nice so maybe you could find a way of booking in there? (They were free!!)

Also, don't worry about being a blubbering mess when you see the nurse - I think it actually makes them take you more seriously. They're used to it anyway!

Good luck with it all.

L

[*Sal*]

You poor thing, you sound just like me when DS was about a week old. I remember being in so much pain that I bought all the bottles and formula and had them sitting there just in case. I saw ff as a last resort though, and believe me if you want to bf and you persevere, it can only get better.

I was told never to microwave ebm though as it is unclear whether the composition of the milk can change or not. Safer temperature wise to heat it up in water as well.

I echo the other mums who have recommended you see a lactation consultant. Keep in mind that baby can attach well but start to slip off during the feed and then you'll still feel the pain. Propping up with pillows or lying down on your side to feed helps with correct positioning.

The lactation consultant may not say so, but I found a nipple shield to be a godsend, until my nipples stopped bleeding anyway. They work. Lansinoh cream works too, and you don't have to wipe it off before feeding.

Hope things start to improve for you really soon.

[Imogensmum]

((((hugs to you veve))))

I got told not to microwave BM because it changes the molecular content or some scientific mumbo jumbo like that!!! I'm not sure what exactly and this could be bull as i have nothing to back it up with- but that is what the MACh nurse told me!!

I really hope it gets better for you- and for bub!!!! But please don't beat yourself up over it- some people just can't BF and if that does happen to be you- FFed babies are just fine! And if it makes the feed more enjoyable for you both go for it!

Hopefully this helps a little bit! I know it is a horrible place to be in- not knowing which way to go- but go with your heart!! Mummy always knows best!!!

[rynosmum]

.. and the nurses in hospital assured me that I get him attached well - so why WHY does it still hurt???

Hi Jenny, just reading through your post, I can remember the excruciating pain I experienced in the first couple of weeks of B/F.

DS wouldn't feed for the first couple of days so I was trying everything to attach him. Unbeknownst to me, I developed a graze (which I couldn't even see) so even when he was attaching correctly for the next 3 or so weeks, it would hurt so much I would be in tears. DS knew that when I was attaching him, I would grit my teeth, put my fingernails into the couch and hold my breath (not great for let down). It became slightly less painful as he was feeding but still hurt like anything.

A lactation consultant, 2 x CHNs and a Paediatrician all said to 'feed through it - it will pass' although I wanted to throttle them at the time. But, it did pass and B/F became a great experience for myself and DH (oh, apart from the leaky boobs, breast pads etc... ;) ).

I used Lanisoh after every feed and tried to express out of which ever was the most painful so I could keep the flow going without DS having to attach to it.

Breast is best for bubs so keep at it if you can - it will get easier. If it all gets too much though and affects you and the bubby, formula is now a good substitute. It doesn't have all of the nutrients of breast milk but bubbies thrive on it as well. I was a bottle baby and I don't have any major issues - well none related to formula anyway :D - and it was nowhere near as good back then !

Best of luck - you're doing really well ! I had a real sense of achievement when I made it through that part - for me it was tougher than giving birth ! :D

Katrina

[meshan]

I agree with Madvoice - a nipple sheild saved my life with both my babies. Not only does it stop the pain but it makes attachment a breeze.

They say it can affect your supply but I used it for 4 months with my first and 3 with my second and never had any problems.

Trust me if you do hang in there it does get very easy ( I turned a corner at around the 3 month mark ) and it so much easier and cheaper then bottle feeding in the long run - even if it doesn't seem like it now.

[stormanet]

Hiya :) Just to let you know there are other alternatives... I had huge attachment issues with my son Christopher, now 7 and a half months.... I chose to go down the path of expressing and bottle feeding and I am so glad I did. I bought a double almost hospital grade pump... cost about $300 all up... expressing took 10 mins every 4 hours with a longer space overnight.... Feeding was a breeze after that. I could measure out what he needed... knew he was getting enough... my husband took over the 10:30 feed so I could sleep between 9pm and 3-4am in those first few weeks. It was all good. I made the choice to give him breast milk for 12 weeks, then we changed to formula.... advice from my pediatrician to use karicare gold as it is the closest to breast ilk and kinder on bubs guts... Christopher made the transition beautifully and all went well. If you want any further advice send me an email and I can put you onto some great websites and books that saved me :)

K

[Peaceangels]

Veve, firstly let me say, you are doing really well - it's not easy! ((HUGS))
As most have already said, it can take weeks (sometimes months) to really feel comfortable with b/feeding, but trust me it is worth it.
Your story sounds very similar to mine with DS1, I'd heard all these wonderful stories about b/f :confused: , but I found it really hard and painful for about 6 weeks.
I did see a Lactation consultant which really helped with getting bub attached right, and once the cracked nipples cleared up it really became such an amazing experience.
I had similar problems with #2, but was lucky enough to find out about Lasinoh cream - in my book it's miracle stuff - it cleared up the cracked nipples in a matter of days.
With #2 I also expressed every2nd feed to give my nipples a rest and I believe this also helped the recovery time.
I read (in the book "Baby Love" by Robin Barker) that microwaving breastmilk is not recommended as it kills alot of the nutrients in the b/milk.
Having said all that, the choice is ultimately yours and if b/f doesn't work for you there are other options - whatever works for you! :)

[Nickster]

Veve, I really feel for you, I had similar problems - almost exactly the same and the thought of switching to the bottle was very tempting, but I am so glad I persevered. Here are my tips for you:

1. Get to a proper lactation consultant. Not the CHN or a nurse at the hospital - a private one. The ABA (freecall) can direct you to one available in your area. 1 visit costs $80 - nothing compared to the cost of formula and bottles! Some health funds will even reimburse a certain percentage of this cost, but regardless it is money well spent. I went once and never had to go back, but she made it quite clear that I could phone her anytime for advice. Lovely lady. She saved my breastfeeding relationship.

2. Try a nipple shield. I used them on and off for about the first 6 weeks - I wouldn't have coped without it. I used to want to run and hide when Libby wanted a feed, and these little wonders really did help get me through. I found the Pigeon brand best, for some reason. Just boil them for about 5 minutes to sterilise after each feed.

Good luck to you, I will be thinking of you - let us know how you get on.

[OM]

I agree with Madvoice - a nipple sheild saved my life with both my babies. Not only does it stop the pain but it makes attachment a breeze.

They say it can affect your supply but I used it for 4 months with my first and 3 with my second and never had any problems.



I just thought I would post and mention the reason they say the Nipple Shield can affect your supply is because the baby only has access to around 85% of the milk, personally though I don't think that would be a really big problem as we all know the more you feed the more milk you make!

Hang in there though, and do what you think is best! Do you have a good electric breast pump? You can hire them or I have one here you could borrow if needed, I live on the Northside though.

[OM]

Oh and about the microwaving I hear that is a big no no as it can also damage the antibodies in the milk, which kind of defeats the purpouse of BF.

[veve]

thanks for all the help and support guys :) - sometimes it just makes you feel better to remember that you aren't the FIRST or the LAST mummy to feel this way!!! ((hugs to all that posted:D) )


guys *** I bought nipple shields today - Avent ones - as they were easy for me to grab from the chemist ... but I dont quite get it ?? I put one on (after sterilizing) - and it was WAY bigger than my actual nipple?? do they come in different sizes??? it just said standard on the packaging?? bubs was confused .. and he hurt me... any tips on using them??? otherwise I will just have to discard them I think... ***

Lasinoh cream is DEFINATELY one of the worlds best inventions... it really makes things better!

LuWa- bubs doesn't have a white tongue- I have been watching closely... but it does occasionally feel like a pin is in my nipple when he first latches...

Rynosmum- you made me smile - I curl my toes to try to keep the top half of my 'relaxed!' - it is so easy for the nurses to say 'relax!!' ... I have to really concentrate not to squeeze jack!!!!

Orlando'smum - our boys seem to go through the same things!!! so often in threads (and PMs) we have had the same problems !! - you make me feel normal :)

I went to the hospital today for my appointment ( note- I MADE myself take time to shave my legs before I went... :) I wanted to feel HUMAN!!!) - I fed Jack there... and of COURSE it didn't hurt!!! - I get home... and it felt like my nipple was coming off!!!! FFing does look SO much easier... I can really see why mum's do it (for a variety of reasons!) - but I will try to persevere... and try to 'feed through it' - if not better in a few days I will DEFINATELY track down a lac consultant or contact the ABA .... thanks for the tip about the possible free service - money is such an issue when you stop work!!!!!

xxxx

[draught]

Veve
Like the others - I had dramas with bf DD2 and all I could do was cry - but one visit to a lactation consultant and I am still happily feeding her 14 months later. I don't live that far from you and I saw one out bayside way who two friends recommended me to - she was lovely. It only took one visit and she was there if I needed her on the phone after that at no charge. If you want the details I will PM them to you - it is worth it, and worth doing now rather than "perservering" and being miserable. In the long run it is cheaper and more convenient than formula feeding so it is worth exploring at least!

In the meantime - lots of hugs. (I don't know about nipple shields so can't give you advice sorry!)

[xkwzit]

Hi Veve
I also had INCREDIBLE trouble bf DD1 (and 2), but it really is worth perservering. I also never *loved* bf like some women do, but it is so much simpler, cheaper and less messy in the nappy area that its really worth working through it.

Regarding nipple sheilds, I don't believe they come in different sizes. I also would have space at the end of a nipple sheild, as mine were VERY flat before BF. You should stretch them a bit to get as much of you in them as possible (i think two hands worked best for me). They'll probably work in a little further once you start feeding and it doesn't matter if there's a bit of space. You can also wean baby off them later once everything settles down a bit.

LC are a godsend in correcting your attachment (although that might not be your problem). My nipples were very flat so both babies had some remodelling to do. With DD1 feeding was painful until about 3 months, with DD2, I still had some remodelling work done, so that was probably about 2 months before we were over that. I did find that if I had good attachment, it might feel like razor blades for the first 5- 10 seconds, but it was quite bearable after that (and that was with cracks the size of crevasses :eek: ). As each crack healed, the nipple was easier for my baby to attach to and that made me feel better about the whole expereince.

Gosh this feels like an epic, but I really think it is worth persevering through all of this - at least for a few months until the really needy newborn stage is settling down. It really does get better and it would be a real shame to give it away just before it becomes OK.

Cheers

[Nickster]

Hi veve,
Nipple shields do come in different sizes - some seem wildly huge, but remember that nipples are made of - ahem - erectile material and will usually stretch to fit the shield you use when your baby is suckling.
I used the pigeon brand because they were smallest I could find (I've only got smallies ;) ) sorry if that's TMI!

[Crazy Monkey]

Hi Veve

I also had problems feeding my DS Jack, when coming home from hospital...
I expressed for 36 hours because the thought of feeding made me cringe.. This really helped (although I felt like a cow)... Along with the cracked (distroyed) nipples, I also had nipple thrush for 3 months (on and off)... I was constantly trying different creams and gels to treat all the problems and it was very tiring...

I went to a breastfeeding day stay program at the hospital, run by lactation consultants, and it helped tremendously... Not only was I given pointers on making things easier but I also was given a big boost of confidence, knowing I was doing everything right and it was the best thing for Jack...

Try and push through it, once you get past this painful time, it really is a wonderful thing.. I couldn't imagine not feeding Jack now... It is easy, convenient and cheap..

Keep up the good work and if BF is what you really want to do, go for it, push through the pain, its worth it...