How many are too many??

[stellarella]

I just have a question to all parents about how many vaccinations are too many??

I recently read that they are considering adding rotavirus to the schedule....so that will be...13!! (thats how many i can count off the top of my head)

So 13 different illnesses will be vaccinated against....I can only assume this number will continue to increase....so in 20 years the schedule has added 9 new vaccines to its schedule....

do you think 20 years and 9 vaccines is long enough to REALLY understand the long term health outcomes??

When will you say "that is too many"! I ask this question because I already think its too many...

but I am wondering what other people think...will you just keep on giving your children (or your grandchildren...great grand children)more without question....?? what if in the next 10 years there are 5 more added....and you dont want your child to have them...then you will be one of the evil parents that doctors hate :devil6: LOL!! one of the parents who strays from the schedule...

has anyone thought about this??

[Ffrenchknickers]

Good point:) It does make you wonder.

I hope this thread stays nice:fingerscrossed:

[stellarella]

Oh I want it to stay nice...but im really serious about this....I think its important for people to consider...myself included as although im a non-vaxer NOW...right at this point in time....I might not be forever...I will probably be a selective vaxer...but for how long is the government going to kepp adding vaccines before we all say...HEY...thats enough...settle down!!

Potentially any illness can have serious complications (even the common cold)...but in all seriouness you cant make a vaccine for everything....i mean...chickenpox and rotavirus....

we are really starting to go over the top IMO

[Ffrenchknickers]

Oh I want it to stay nice..
:hugs: yes I am sure you do! Sorry wasn't implying that you were trying to start something..not at all!

I agree with you....it is something to think about hey....I mean, I guess potentially they could come up with a vaccine for almost anything...where do we draw the line?

[stellarella]

No I didnt take offense....:p

Its cool...as you can see im on a rampage tonight with the whole vax issue...

[Ffrenchknickers]

yeah, fair enough too....:hugs: It is such a HUGE issue:yes: We spent countless hours in research and prayer before deciding not to vax...and, as you said, we currently dont vax but are constantl reveiwing our decision.

[Miaow]

I think its good that technology has come up with vacines for all these diseases especially the ones that can kill and cause serious medical problems

You just need to look at how polio has nearly disapeared now compared to how it was before people weren't getting vaccinated. There was something recently also in regards to the pneumococcal vax being very effective which is great cause its one of the major causes of bacterial Meningitis.

IMO I think it is better to Vax against as much as you can (if the Vax is available) to prevent serious illness than to not vax and possiblly get a disease that could be life threatening. Hopefully though they'll find more ways to combine vaccines into one shot like the MMR for example so there wont be as many injections....

[shed]

How many is too many?

Well for us personally in regard to our son at the age of six months old, the answer is "one" for the moment. That's too many so he has had none.

He won't be getting the MMR at all. That is the one that scares the bejeebus out of me. I am completely against mixing the vaccines together.

Honestly, looking at the schedule, there is nothing that I really want him to have.

Getting kids jabbed against chickenpox completely baffles me. Safe to say he won't be having that one.

Each to their own though. ALL of my friends and family get their kids vaxed and most of my favourite bubhubbers, so its not something that people should get all out of shape about.

[Ffrenchknickers]

Getting kids jabbed against chickenpox completely baffles me.

....that, and the hep B for newborns.....

[stellarella]

Hopefully though they'll find more ways to combine vaccines into one shot like the MMR for example so there wont be as many injections....

So you will just keep on adding vax's to your kids bodies...endlessly...??

Surely anyone can see that there is only so much a little body can take???? Eventually the body will shut down...some bubbas bodies shut down already...

And if you just keep combining that will end up being ONE hell of a jab...LOL:eek:

"just sit patiently please while I inject 1 litre and 89 different vaccines into you"....

Do you get my point???

[Ana Gram]

For me, there will never be too many when it comes to the health of my child.

[stellarella]

For me, there will never be too many when it comes to the health of my child.

Well....thats precisely the point isnt it...???

[RedPanda]

Getting kids jabbed against chickenpox completely baffles me. Safe to say he won't be having that one.



Yeah, I often think about the necessity of the chickenpox one. So far, I have stuck to the schedule completely, but am undecided on the chicken pox vacc. Sometimes I think kids should just get the chicken pox and develop their own immunity. However, I've seen adults get the chicken pox, and it isn't mild or pretty. I worry about sterility etc if the child doesn't end up catching the chicken pox as a kid. I've never had it, and I feel like a sitting duck as an adult!!

[Miaow]

Maybe with the chickenpox, apart from stopping children getting it, they are also trying to minimise the problems that can occur when adults get it especially when pregnant to the fetus or baby at birth - if everyone's immunised young then this problem will then be a lot less likely to occur. This is from better health site on Chickenpox


Possible consequences of disease
One in 5,000 patients develop brain inflammation as a result of chickenpox and about three in 100,000 patients die. Infection during pregnancy can result in congenital malformations in the baby. Onset of infection in the mother from five days before to two days after delivery results in severe infection in the newborn baby in up to one-third of cases.
http://www.betterhealth.vic.gov.au/bhcv2/bhcarticles.nsf/pages/Immunisation_reactions?OpenDocument

[shed]

Unfortunately the chickenpox vaccine is only effective for a limited number of years, so if your child is immune until they reach their teens then its actually more dangerous to catch it then, so in some ways its a self fulfilling prophecy.

so they would have to get booster after booster after booster, which there is some doubt about the effectiveness of that.

If someone has natural immunity from catching it as a child then their fetus would also be safe.

Ah, its a difficult one, but basically, chickenpox is a childhood disease.

Well it used to be. If every kid is vaccinated then it will turn into an adult disease, and since adults get it baaaaaaaaad then we will be in big trouble.

I don't want my kid getting chickenpox but if its a choice between getting it as a youngster and getting it as an adult when the vaccine wears off, then I guess I choose 'as a youngster'. Safer for him.

[RedPanda]

Hmm, chickenpox is an interesting one. I'm leaning towards not getting it.

Is there such a thing as natural immunity? I've never been vacced against it, and I never had it as a kid. I worry that if DS gets it, I'll catch it and end up quite sick. Maybe I just have a natural immunity which is why I never got it in the first place?

[shed]

Lol!

[Ana Gram]

Well....thats precisely the point isnt it...???

What are you trying to say then? It is quite obvious that you don't agree with it. So what difference does it make if other people choose to do it? How exactly does it affect you?

[theycallmemum]

I think that as more and more vaccinations are introduced, more and more people will start selectively vaccinating which will unfortunately effect the ability to control these illnesses so that those the can't or chose not to vaccinate won't be covered by the majority who are vaccinated (I hope that makes sense)

My kids aren't done because they just can't be due to severe reactions. I do worry about them catching measles and the like but the risk of immunising them outways the risk of them maybe catching something.

What is the answer? Just because we can control things like chicken pox, does that mean we should? Aren't we supposed to get things like this so that our immune systems develop? It's like the rotovirus one, one of my kids had it badly twice, severe enough to be hospitalised on both occasions, but is immunising the answer? Are we trying to immunise ourselves so that we never get anything? What will that do to the immune system?

[reAllytee]

So you will just keep on adding vax's to your kids bodies...endlessly...??

Surely anyone can see that there is only so much a little body can take???? Eventually the body will shut down...some bubbas bodies shut down already...

And if you just keep combining that will end up being ONE hell of a jab...LOL:eek:

"just sit patiently please while I inject 1 litre and 89 different vaccines into you"....

Do you get my point???

Sorry im baffled by your statement.

You say you want this to stay friendly then start throwing around accusational type questions & statements.

I vaccinate because i choose to & because for me its a safer option thats obviously not the way you think & yet why is it we have to respect your point of view yet you cant respect ours ?

I choose to vaccinate because i have a mother who got Polio when she was 5yrs old & suffered then as well as now suffers from Post Polio Syndrome. She has endured countless operations ( over 30 relating to the Polio ) & spent most of her childhood growing up in hospitals. So for me i have see one on one what such a virus/disease can do not just as the begining but what it can do later in life also. Not only this but i have grown up surrounded by her friends who have all suffered this horrible virus/disease yet due to the way it works it has affected all of them differently. So for me i never ever want my child to suffer that fate so for me vaccinating is the better option not because i want to over load my little ones system but because i want to help protect them.

Thats not your belief & thats fair but please dont assume this isnt a hard, heart wrenching decision for those of us who choose to vaccinate. Most of us put all the same amount of hard work into reading up & studying whats best for our child as you have done.

[Leez]

The number of vaccinations on the schedule is the one of the biggest concerns for me and a major reason why I choose not to vaccinate. I was vaccinated as a kid, but when I was a kid I think there was about 4 all up - what is it now? 20 or something!

I worry that it creates under-functioning immune systems and I'm not satisfied, no matter what I read, that the cumulative effect of the fillers/preservatives in the vaccines does NOT contribute to other chronic conditions.

It is not a good outcome that a child never gets sick from anything. Illness in an otherwise healthy child creates robust, optimum functioning immune systems and there's even some anecdotal evidence (not scientifically proven though) that high temps brought on by short acting disease can possibly correct developmental delays - there are stories of children who say were slow to talk, contracted an illness, had a high temp and following that, the speech came on. Also there are stories of children who have grown significantly during a high temp.

That says to me that there could be a point to childhood illness, other than simply creating a few miserable days.

[westerner]

Oh I want it to stay nice

If that was true then what posessed you to write such an insulting comment refering to vaxers simply beacause they do not share the same point of view and opinions as you...


So you will just keep on adding vax's to your kids bodies...endlessly...??

And if you just keep combining that will end up being ONE hell of a jab...LOL

"just sit patiently please while I inject 1 litre and 89 different vaccines into you"....

Do you get my point???

No I dont get your point.. :no:

To be rude and insulting simply because one does not mimic your lifestyle choices.. :confused:



I vaccinate because i choose to & because for me its a safer option thats obviously not the way you think & yet why is it we have to respect your point of view yet you cant respect ours ?

Couldnt have said it better myself... :yes: :yes:

[Miaow]

t is not a good outcome that a child never gets sick from anything. Illness in an otherwise healthy child creates robust, optimum functioning immune systems and there's even some anecdotal evidence (not scientifically proven though) that high temps brought on by short acting disease can possibly correct developmental delays - there are stories of children who say were slow to talk, contracted an illness, had a high temp and following that, the speech came on. Also there are stories of children who have grown significantly during a high temp.

That says to me that there could be a point to childhood illness, other than simply creating a few miserable days.

Some of this may possibly be true when you are talking about a cold or minor illness. Please note high temps over 40 are dangerous as protein (enzymes are protein and the body's processes are all enzyme controlled) starts to denature over that temp so to say high temps can be beneficial in those ways is IMO not possible

The illness that Vax protect against are all extremely serious - Polio, Menigitis, Measles, Meningicoccal (well apart from chickenpox possibly but that can still be serious also in some) They are not minor illnesses.

Each to their own on if they vax or not, its your decision, But I'd rather there be no or minimal chance of my child possibly contracting a disease that could be fatal or leave long lasting damage...

[bindiloo]

Actually neither doctors or other people are given the true in depth study of medical research on the decline of diseases such as polio ,measles etc.
It is doccumented although rarely anyone goes against what their doctor tells them so they dont see the facts for themselves that in 1900's Measles was at its highest even causing death however it started to decline and become a harmless disease that is fought off by the bodies natural antibodies in the 1940's. Then the vaccine was introduced in the 1960's when measles was almost eradicated and it was after this time that it began to increase again.
This is the same for polio and whooping cough.
So the Governments own statistics show that even smallpox an polio vaccinations were introduced after the dramatic decline in these diseases. Due to better water,nutrition,cleaner environments and many other factors.

As for how many doses they recieve these days is actually closer to 60 rather than 20 . 40 years ago it was 12 doses.
So yes it scares the hell outta me to think that they are only incresing the number of these doses everyday,before we know it it will be well above 100 and i worry what more potentially dangerous chemicals will be added to all these new ones.

[Leeny]

For all you non-vaxers, I just have a question. Its out of curiosity, im not being rude.

They've already inveted a vaccination for cervical cancer. Will you're little girls be getting that at the age of 13?

What about in another 5 or 10 years time when they have a vaccination for many other types of cancer. What about when cancer is fully preventable...Will you vaccinate against it?

Im just curious really. I understand why some people wont vax against things like chickenpox, but what about the diseases that have a great potential to kill?:detective:

[stellarella]

I see some people have taken a great deal of offense to my posts...which despite what you may think was not my intention...as you can tell I wasnt born with a great deal of tact:banghead:

I was not directing my post at anyone in particular nor at vaxers in general...it was a hypothetical statement/question...it was partly directed at myself...as I am neither completely for or completely against vaccinating at this point...I am wondering what will happen 20 years down the track...

Perhaps some of us dont care as our children will be grown...but I do care, I wonder what will happen to humanity in general if we keep travelling down the same path...

I dont know what is the answer...and I have the utmost respect for any decision people make as long as it is informed...I certainly did not want to belittle anyone and frankly i think there have been some overreactions...

It is an emotive issue for anyone who has had a relative friend affected by one of these diseases but it is equally emotive for anyone whose child has been brain damaged or died from the affect of a vaccine...

Perhaps having had neither of these experiences I can look at the issue from the middle ground..and not get caught up in personal expereinces.

I am raising issues...which is healthy...they are things we should think about whether we want to or not...I hope people can take my post for what it was...just a question, albeit asked a little sarcastically...but directed at myself as much as anyone..."what am I going to do...just keep injecting my child with vaccines endlessly?"

[bindiloo]

No i will not be giving my daughter that vaccine. I believe the vaccines do not erradicate these diseases nor help. I think they have life threatening side effects and i believe in years to come we will hear of not just adults getting it but alot of 13 year old girls walking around with cervical cancer because of these vaccines.
Thats just my opinion and decision, if anyone dissagree's then you have the right too.

[mama2cierra]

I think too many NEEDLES is too many...
If they could give innoculations and vaccinations orally or with a different method then it would probably bring more peace of mind to mothers
but overall i think it is important to be vaccinated

[mama2cierra]

I would have taken the rotavirus vaccine , for sure IF it had been available to us before we all contracted it!!!! It is a nasty infection to have !!!!! :barf:
but I THINK you can only get it once in your lifetime...who knows

[reAllytee]

As for how many doses they recieve these days is actually closer to 60 rather than 20 . 40 years ago it was 12 doses.

Im sorry but where do you get this figure from ?

Stellarella - I understand this is an emotive issue but as you said yes maybe a little more tact but then i think most of us need to watch ourselves with what we say lol. I wasnt offended by what you said as such but more annoyed or curious as to why when you wanted this to stay nice you would make a post like you did. But again we are all guilty of getting over excited on certain topics.
:hugs:

I can see what you are saying in that where will the vaccinations stop & i can see what others are saying in regards to letting a child get ill. Heck i dont believe in stopping everything but i am very lucky in that my DS has only really had one proper cold & Roseola which i let him fight mostly alone until his temp got too high & i feared febrile convulsions so used some Neurofen.
The difference for me is that i dont buy into what a lot of the anti- vaxxing groups say just as much as i dont buy into a lot of what our governments & doctors have to say. I read what i can from both sides in regards to it all then make my decision just as you do. Dont get me wrong not all anti- vaxxers are evil or have some evil plan but many are making a lot of money out of it in regards to getting people to donate just as they are homeopaths/ naturopaths who believe they can sure all when this is just blatant lies but hey they make a hell of a lot of money out of it what do they care.
I use a naturopath btw heh so im not against alternative remedies & treatments & my doctor is a fairly laid back doctor who is actually in practice with the naturopath.
I guess i always question everyone even those telling me things i want to hear if that makes sense.
I get a lot of info through my mum due to her contacts & the work she does in regards to disabilities as well as Polio/Post-Polio so some of the stuff i have seen etc never seems to get mentioned by the anti- vax groups or gets pushed to the side. I have been to many of these meetings to see doctors harassed & even my mum screamed at & told she was lying then she was even thrown out of one meeting because they didnt like what she had to say.
So as i said im dubious of all sides.

Sorry i have major mushy brain so cant really get my thoughts together at this point but will come back to it later.

[theycallmemum]

I would have taken the rotavirus vaccine , for sure IF it had been available to us before we all contracted it!!!! It is a nasty infection to have !!!!! :barf:
but I THINK you can only get it once in your lifetime...who knows

Nope you can get it many times. My son had it twice in a year, both times needing hospitalisation. It is nasty, no doubt about that!

[bindiloo]

Im sorry but where do you get this figure from ?

What are you sorry for?
I get my information from many sources that i have studied over the years and mostly all i know of is now etched in my memory. When i say 60 doses i dont mean 60 needles i mean 60 doses of lethal chemicals in the needles which after a child has then had all the vaccination needles on their schedule,that is roughly 60 doses all up.

Vaccination information services and many many other sources will collaborate this and if you collected the ingredients lists of every injection your child recieves you will see that overall it does infact add up to these figures.

[stellarella]

Well thanks for all the comments so far....when I started this thread I was in a passionate mood RE: vaccination..

Although we often come accross as belittling or dissapproving of other peoples opinions on this topic (from BOTH sides of the argument)...I think the bottom line is that we all torn over this issue...to some degree...

I sure know I am..

This thread is as much about me working through this question as it is about posing the question for other people...

presumably we have all thought about it...but I was genuinely wondering what conclusion everyone came to...if you came to a conclusion at all!

[the_queen]

For all you non-vaxers, I just have a question. Its out of curiosity, im not being rude.

They've already inveted a vaccination for cervical cancer. Will you're little girls be getting that at the age of 13?


There is no such thing as a cancer vaccine.

Gardasil is a vaccine against 2 strains of HPV (Human Papilloma Virus) aka Genital Warts. These 2 strains can lead to 70% of all cervical cancer cases. However, Merck and the media have done everything in their power to market Gardasil as a "cancer vaccine".

I will not be vaccinating my children against sexually transmitted diseases.


Stellarella I see your point. More and more and more untested chemicals being injected into our tiny babies bodies.. it's very sad I think. At the very least, why can't their little bodies be left uncontaminated until the age of 2 years? Japan has changed the rules in regards to vaccinations, the schedule has it's first dose given at 2years old and SIDS has virtually disappeared... :detective:

[V8]

Nice work queenie, i was going to say the exact same thing about Gardisil. I think the media are totally mis-informing people about this miracle 'cancer vaccine'. It only protects against HPV which can lead to cervical cancer. So again, no i am not going to vaccinate my children against STD's either. I also agree we should have the immunisation schedule start much later like 2 years old aswell, not from birth!

I totally understand your point Stellarella, i have big issues with the vaccination schedule, i haven't had DS vaxed with anything other than Vit K at birth which i didn't really want him to have that. But anyways i worry about the bombardment of these vaccines into our precious babies and believe that our immune systems are severely comprimised by these vaccinations. I think that since i was a child the amount of vaccines has probably doubled at least! And now they want to introduce more, and you will need booster shots for things. IMO i think it's getting waaaaay too overboard and over the top! There isn't enough evidence in my opinion to say that it is 100% effective, so i'm not going to risk the potential damage from a vaccine in order to offer my child SOME protection against a disease. That's just my personal opinion, if others want to vaccinate that's their decision too.

[the_queen]

Both sides involve risk, it just that i see vaccination in a baby as a greater evil.

Brilliant point pony, both sides do involve a risk - and so the vaccination decision is really about risk assessment. I have weighed up the risks, and to me the vaccines are riskier than the supposedly VPD's. My doctor agree's.

[reAllytee]

What are you sorry for?
I get my information from many sources that i have studied over the years and mostly all i know of is now etched in my memory. When i say 60 doses i dont mean 60 needles i mean 60 doses of lethal chemicals in the needles which after a child has then had all the vaccination needles on their schedule,that is roughly 60 doses all up.

Vaccination information services and many many other sources will collaborate this and if you collected the ingredients lists of every injection your child recieves you will see that overall it does infact add up to these figures.

I didnt want to come across as being rude in asking the question as though i was ridiculing you. Thank you for the answer i now understand what you mean. I have actually already posted on Bubhub the ingredients of vaccinations as i know many wanted the information whether they were vaxxing or not.
Just because i do vaccinate doesnt mean i dont want to know what its all about.


Well thanks for all the comments so far....when I started this thread I was in a passionate mood RE: vaccination..

Although we often come accross as belittling or dissapproving of other peoples opinions on this topic (from BOTH sides of the argument)...I think the bottom line is that we all torn over this issue...to some degree...

I sure know I am..

This thread is as much about me working through this question as it is about posing the question for other people...

presumably we have all thought about it...but I was genuinely wondering what conclusion everyone came to...if you came to a conclusion at all!

Totally agree with you im torn every single day about what i feed Boof let alone anything else !!
Im angry many doctors dont tell the truth in regards to the vaccinations & i get very very cranky in regards to their blatant mistruths & not letting parents know.
I think whichever way you go its best to know whats going on.

I was a child who reacted to her vaccinations so most of mine were given in half doses or held off & even back then our family doctor agreed with this because it was too much on a little persons system. I watched Boof very closely after all of his & had he reacted im pretty darn sure we would have stopped vaccinating then & there ! Just as this baby now wont be getting the Vit K unless its another traumatic birth like Boofs nor will it get the Hep B at birth. I totally admit to being naive in regards to the Hep B at birth i now know better but for us the Vit K is still something to be given if as i said the birth is traumatic which Boof's was.

Your question is legitimate i mean where do we stop ? Do we vaccinate for everything ? To be honest im not sure because its such a hard decision especially when after having Whooping Cough a few years ago i now have had to be updated with this & also get the Flu vax every year because my lungs are now in such bad condition. Before that i thought the Flu vax was a joke :o but for me if i get it, it will threaten my life.
So it is a very good question & i guess one we can only answer the best we can, with the info we have looked at, to the best of our knowledge.

Its incredibly hard.

[KapowSchazam]

Just a quick question, what is the reason for the Vit K immunisation, and why would you only give it after a traumatic birth?

I have no idea what it's for! :o

[BlueGin]

Allyoo- I'd love to hear what research has led to your decision not to give the Hep B shot at birth? I'd also like to hear your thoughts on Vitamin K if you have the time.

I am on the pro-vax side of selective vaxing at present, and still making decisions... but these 2 are looming and both DH and I just can't decide.

I'd be interested in some views on the drip given to mothers with a positive Strep B test at their 36 week appointments?

Thanks for your time :thumbsup:

[bindiloo]

Just a quick question, what is the reason for the Vit K immunisation, and why would you only give it after a traumatic birth?

I have no idea what it's for! :o

The reason given for administration of Vitamin K is to prevent haemorrhagic disease in newborns.
Vitamin K injections also contain hydrochloric acid and lecithin.

[Miaow]

Some info on Vitamin K


Vitamin K is known as the clotting vitamin, because without it blood would not clot http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002407.htm[/URL]


Vitamin K aids blood clotting and as newborn babies have low levels of the vitamin, the injections have traditionally been given to reduce the risk of internal bleeding.

http://www.womens-health.org.nz/publications/WHU/whuvol1.htm#VitK (http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/002407.htm)



Why is Vitamin K Given to Newborns?

There is a rare disease called Vitamin K deficiency bleeding, which occurs in approximately 1 in 10,000 babies. In about half of babies who suffer this bleeding problem after the first week of life, many will die or sustain significant brain-damage due to the disease, because of bleeding into the brain. It occurs almost exclusively in breastfed babies and is almost completely preventable by giving extra vitamin K after birth.
[URL]http://www.womens-health.co.uk/vitk.asp


BTW That last link has a heap of info on the pros and cons of vitamin K