How old is young??? [Archive] - Bub Hub Pregnancy & Parenting Forum

SweetSerenity

13-11-2005, 19:52

I'm just curious as to what you ladies think is a "young" age to have babies...
Feel free to add your comment without feeling your offending anyone because we are all entitled to our opinion.

My thoughts are... When i hear a 16year old has just had a baby, i do personally think straight away, too young.
In experiences though, it doesn't really depend on age. I mean yes i think up to 16 is too young as i know what i was like when i was that age and i'm mature for my age! Many 16yr olds aren't ready, there are the minority who are though.
In saying that though, it does depend VERY much on how mentally mature you are and if you're actually ready (mentally) to raise a child into adult hood!

I have a friend who's 23yrs old, she had her son when she was 21...now age wise she doesn't sound young, but my personal opinion is she shouldn't have had her son. Mentally she was too young.
She continued to go the pub, booze it up, continue her drugs etc and even took her son to the pub with her!!!! She just was not ready to give up the hobbies she had before her son, so she made him a part of it all. Her son was always dirty and she just didn't seem to mother him very well.
She exposes him to so much that a little baby should not be exposed to.
Even when he was still in her belly, she would go out, get drunk, dance the night away...i just dont agree with doing things like that when you are a mum or mum to be!

Then there's myself and a friend of mine from Primary School. We both turned 20 this year and had our bubs when we were 19...so we were 18 and pregnant.
We were both with our partners for a short time before we fell pregnant, but two years (for me) later down the track, we're married, saving for a house deposit which we hope to get end of next year, our son will be 1 next month and we're going strong :) And no we didnt get married because we have a son....we actually do love each other and planned marriage before i fell pregnant as we fell in love straight away :D
My friend too is saving for a house with her partner.

My point is, we've adapted our lives to our children, become responsible parents and are doing our best for them (and we dont dress inappropriately either lol). Age doesnt determine how we care or love our children. Yes age shows life experience, but isnt giving birth and raising a child part of the life experience, why does it matter how old you are when you begin???
As long as you are capable of raising, loving, protecting and caring for your child in the right way, i don't see a problem!

What are your views???

carls

14-11-2005, 06:50

IMO, anything under about 25 is too young. Sorry!

Melissa1983

14-11-2005, 07:17

well i always thought about 24. but hey look at me now. i had my first at 19.

I don't really think age has anything to with it. I think it is more mature the person is. You could have a 17 year really mature, where a 24 year old might not be.

It that makes sense :confused:

carls

14-11-2005, 08:04

I dont know if its entirely up to the child (and thats what some of these girls are - children), to decide whether they are mature enough. At 15 I thought I was pretty mature, and at 18 and 21 as well, but looking back at some of the choices I made and things I did, I certainly wasnt mature.

Its like an 18 year old 'P' plater doing burn outs in his car. Sure he thinks hes mature and cool and invincible at the time, but older society thinks he's just a moron and needs to grow up. He wont realise until probably 10 years down the track that he was pretty immature.

So if a 15 year old girl says to me 'I'm mature enough to be a mother', my response to that is - under law you arent even mature enough to have sex, smoke or drink alcohol responsibly - please dont tell me youre mature enough to be a mother.

tickle

14-11-2005, 09:29

I think it entirely depends on the individual person.
I was 22 when I had my DS and trust me I am a lot more mature than some of my friends who are 30.
I think it depends on where you are at in your life and what you want out of life.
Most of our parents had their children in their early 20's and I think most of us turned out fine.
When I was younger I always said 24 but things change. I think it is a really individual thing.

cobysmummy

14-11-2005, 09:41

Jaileth

14-11-2005, 09:50

I guess it's an individual thing. Some women are ready to have children at 16, and some at 46. I don't think you can really put an age on this. I know of some young mums who are fantastic, and show their kids a level of care that some of the older mums just can't match, and vica versa.

I grew up young. I moved out of home the day after my sixteenth birthday - and at sixteen and a half, I was living by myself. It made me learn alot of things about life, and during that time, it made me grow up a h3ll of a lot quicker than if I had stayed at home.

I don't know what kind of mum I'll be yet - but I do know that I want to give my child (and subsequent children) the best I can.

mollyandkurtsmum

14-11-2005, 10:00

I think that there is such a thing as too young and Im sure my opinion wont be popular but 16, 17, 18 and even some 19 year olds having babies is really children raising children. I thought I was mature and ready for anything as a teenager but its not just about the needs and wants of the mums to be. I dont think its fair for a baby to be raised by a baby. I was 23 when I had my son and even then thought of myself as a young mum.

Harmony83

14-11-2005, 10:15

Thats a tricky one!!! I used to think that under 24ish was young, I had my little one at 21 and I feel Im doing a great job, and all the younger mummies on this forum sound so mature for their age too, in fact a lot maturer than some older people I know, so I guess it really does depend on the person, not their age!

carls

14-11-2005, 10:22

I agree with MollyandKurtsmum - children dont realise they are children.

I dont doubt for a second that no matter what age you are, that you love your kids, but I just dont think that theres enough life experience there that you need to pass onto your children as well as love.

In regards to 14,15,16 to 18 year olds - we have laws protecting these MINORS from sex, drugs, alcohol and even driving on our roads for a reason - their bodies and minds are too young to deal with these things.

And young people will always say things like "there are 30 year olds out there that are just as immature as me"...the fact is they may act it, but they've had 10-15 years more life experience than these girls, and the cold hard fact is that THIS IS IMPORTANT. You can sugar coat it with all the love in the world, but I'm not convinced these children will grow up being socially and morally correct.

Children need time to grow up, learn, move out of home and have a significant number of years with different responsibilities under their belt before having kids of their own.

It is definitely NOT RIGHT to have children at 14 or 15 whilst still at school then lumping the child on the grandmother to look after. She has been there, done that. I find it to be very selfish, and I question the childs logical, responsible and practical decision making skills - which again comes with age.

This isnt directed at any one person, these are just my opinions!!

tickle

14-11-2005, 10:39

And young people will always say things like "there are 30 year olds out there that are just as immature as me"...the fact is they may act it, but they've had 10-15 years more life experience than these girls, and the cold hard fact is that THIS IS IMPORTANT. You can sugar coat it with all the love in the world, but I'm not convinced these children will grow up being socially and morally correct.
I am 24 and I do say there are many people at 30 or 40 who still live in their little box and have very little life experience. Life experience is also not the be all and end all. Parents need to responsive to their kids and I know a lot of older mums who aren't this either. I have nothing against older or younger mums, I just think that everyone is different. It is a pretty broad statement, Carls, to say that anyone under 25 is too young. I know it is just your opinion but it is kind of putting everyone under one umbrella. Most of our parents already had a few kids by this age.

I also agree that children shouldn't be having children. But if that's what life throws at them, most deal with it and get on with being the best parent they can. I am sure it is a small minority of 16 year olds who say, I want to have a child now. Most happen by accident.

carls

14-11-2005, 10:53

I saw something advertised once that was a program for 'young mums' and the age description was 14-25.

This wasnt what made up my mind as to what I thought was 'young' though, that has come from what I have seen around me.

20-25, ok - I find it more acceptable. But when shows such as Sunrise are applauding pregnancy education programs for teenage mums, as well as hospitals/doctors etc advertising similar teen programs in Australia and other countries, doesnt that give some kind of hint that as a whole, society thinks teens are too young?

I guess I'm just trying to make the point that it is not just my opinion, its a social opinion.

One thing I dont understand is that is illegal for a child to have sex at 15, but its ok to have a baby??!! The law seems to be thrown out the window as soon as the girl is pregnant.

Refresh

14-11-2005, 11:18

One thing I dont understand is that is illegal for a child to have sex at 15, but its ok to have a baby??!! The law seems to be thrown out the window as soon as the girl is pregnant.

But, honestly, what are they going to do?? Force everyone to have an abortion?? which IMHO is much, much worse.

I definately agree that there are 40 year old who are too immature to have kids while some young mummies are doing a great job (and vice versa.) I dont think its about age, everyone is different. We should be supporting all mums, young and old

madvoice

14-11-2005, 11:19

To me, its more about mental maturity rather than age though I do believe that under 18 is too young. Once you've reached adult age, then you're well and truly responsible for your actions. I had Raleigh at 28. I don't think I was mature enough to cope with a child until now.

pegasus

14-11-2005, 11:47

I do think that there is such a thing as too young. I'm not saying I was an ideal age - I do think I was an older mum - but waited until DH and I were very stable (I had my first at 31 and will be 33 when No2 is born), but when I was younger I always thought that I'd be married by 20 with my 2 children by 25. :) The biggest issue is the emotional stability you can offer your children. If you're not emotionally stable yourself, then it's really hard to deal with the kid's issues. Admittedly there a few emotionally unstable and immature 20/30/40 year olds, but usually if you've experienced a bit of life then you're seeking to have a baby not so that it will love you unconditionally, but so you can share your life and experiences.

My DH was a dad 2wks after he turned 19 and in his words it was a really hard slog. My DH also says he wasn't consulted about whether to have either of the two kids (yes I've told him that it takes two to tango). (Biomum was 19 too). Biomum has never worked and DH held down 2jobs at the time to try to set them up. They were together on and off for 4yrs with a lot of unrest in that time. I've heard a lot of stories from DSS and DSD (including stories of mum being violent, staying out to all hours, leaving them with her BF's etc. It leads me to believe that biomum was not ready to change her lifestyle for her kids. I am now concerned about DSD - she is 12 and talking about a girl in her class that's pregnant, and also talking about how she would love a baby herself. This is the concern - my DSK's have been brought up to think their self worth is about having someone to love you in your life (like a child) rather than about loving yourself.

Yes, this is why my story is biased and so hate posts can be sent, but remember, I'm not passing judgement on any of you young mums as I don't know you personally - that's just the fact with forums like these - our opinions are based on our own experiences.

razzle

14-11-2005, 12:01

Carls has said just about everything I wanted to say - I totally agree.

Life experience is worth it, as is a good education. If we teach our children to have high morals and behaviour then maybe we wouldn't have such a high rate of teen pregnancy.

carls

14-11-2005, 12:02

but usually if you've experienced a bit of life then you're seeking to have a baby not so that it will love you unconditionally, but so you can share your life and experiences.

I agree. And what life experiences and wisdom do you have to share with a child when you are a teenage mum? Well she may have finished school, may have moved out of home, may have learnt how to pay a bill or two, may have learnt to drive a car, may know how to lodge a Centrelink form, but is probably an expert at getting into a club underage, shaking off a nasty hangover and asking her mum to babysit.

lexi'smum

14-11-2005, 12:07

A mum is a mum!! young or old, no matter what age she is it doesnt matter she is still a mother! and it is the individuals responsibility to decide weather they are too young or not to have a child! you cant put an age brackett on it or say you do not have enough 'life expierences to be a parent!' this is a load of bull. You CAN NOT judge a book by its cover, nor a mother by their age!!! and what right do you have to do so, if a certain child is in danger due to the fact of poor parenting, that is another matter, but to generalise an age group and say they are not old enough, thats just wrong, people should stop being so judgemental and stop taking one or two bad stories that they may have heard and thinking that it must apply to all young mothers.

lexi'smum

14-11-2005, 12:18

I agree. And what life experiences and wisdom do you have to share with a child when you are a teenage mum? Well she may have finished school, may have moved out of home, may have learnt how to pay a bill or two, may have learnt to drive a car, may know how to lodge a Centrelink form, but is probably an expert at getting into a club underage, shaking off a nasty hangover and asking her mum to babysit.

So your never going to ask someone to babysit? you've never shaken off a hang over or done anything you shouldnt when you were under age?
Its comments like these that make being a young mum and trying to get a fair go in things hard for people.

Refresh

14-11-2005, 12:18

Well she may have finished school, may have moved out of home, may have learnt how to pay a bill or two, may have learnt to drive a car, may know how to lodge a Centrelink form, but is probably an expert at getting into a club underage, shaking off a nasty hangover and asking her mum to babysit.

Are you serious??? Please tell me you are joking.

I agree that we need to be raising our kids to have high morals etc etc so that they can make better decisions, I totally agree with that. I dont think that the answer is to judge or condemn people. We need more education but not only that, we need SUPPORT for all mums. Being nasty about young mums is not going to help at all.

I agree with Lexismum that a Mum is a mum - young or old, everyone is different.

razzle

14-11-2005, 12:28

There's a hell of a lot more to being a mother than just birthing the child. Life is full of responsibilities. Why burden teenagers with parenthood when they have so many other things to experience first - like being responsible adults.

Refresh

14-11-2005, 12:36

There's a hell of a lot more to being a mother than just birthing the child.

Yes, so true.....I definately agree that the rate of unplanned pregnancies is too high, but there are lots of young mums out there doing a great job. Lets get out there and support them and their children rather than just saying that it is "wrong." We need to make the best of the situation not just throw our hands up in disgust.

tickle

14-11-2005, 12:45

Yes, so true.....I definately agree that the rate of unplanned pregnancies is too high, but there are lots of young mums out there doing a great job. Lets get out there and support them and their children rather than just saying that it is "wrong." We need to make the best of the situation not just throw our hands up in disgust.
I agree absolutely!

lexi'smum

14-11-2005, 12:48

.= Why burden teenagers with parenthood.
Isnt that their choice??
I thought the whole idea of a young mothers section was for support,not for other people to come in and ridicule them for the job their doing, young mothers deserve more respect, motherhood certainatly isnt easy, do you think things like this make it any easier for the younger people? like i said, mothers are mothers! cant we just support each other instead of deciding who must be doing a better job?
and your right and every mother should know, theres alot more to being a parent then birthing children, and if they dont realise that, maybe its then you should say their not ready, not because of how old they are!

pegasus

14-11-2005, 12:57

I know that I wasn't throwing up my hands in disgust and saying it's wrong - just saying from my experience, we need to be aware more of the reasons women are having babies (this excludes anyone who has had an "accident" - I think you're in a totally different arena). My post was based on the fact that some people whom I have met who have children with difficulties (both in my personal life - as written before and in my professional life) seem to have chosen to have children to meet a need in their life rather than having a child so they can meet that little person's needs. I'm aware that this statement may be taken a couple of different ways, but is based on my experience, not any evidence base. I do love and cherish my DS and so that could be taken as tho he is a need, but the reason I had him (and my next) is so I can give and share.

I was by no means saying all young people are selfish and can't give and share etc, however, I know that my DH and I went through a lot of issues (about the time he turned 24/25) as he felt that he'd missed out on a lot when he was younger - he wanted to go out partying etc, as when with his 1st kid's biomum, he'd gone to work, then come home to look after the kids. Me - I partied my way through uni - kids were the last thing on my mind till I was about 25 as I always knew one day.....

Just finally - in response to Lexi's mum and Oliver's mum - I fully agree with supporting young mum's and I've been trying to do this for the last 11 or so years through teaching parenting skills etc. The problem is that you can't tell someone they're not ready to have a child until they've faced the reality of having one, as nobody truly knows what it's like till they have one. The sad reality is that some mums (and I'm not suggesting any of you are these ones) do regret having their children at a young age and the losers are the children. Please do not take this as a personal attack on yourselves

razzle

14-11-2005, 13:03

Actually what I meant was "why should they burden themselves with parenthood when they have so many other things to experience - like being responsible adults". You're right - it's not my decision.

No one is ridiculing young parents, or throwing their hands up in disgust. What's done is done, you can't turn back time. And yes, by all means support those parents that need it.

All I'm saying is that if teenagers today took more responsiblity for their actions, then teen pregnancy wouldn't be so high. What we really need to be doing is educating the teens that are yet to become parents. Educate them to be better adults, education leads to better choices!

Refresh

14-11-2005, 13:04

I know that I wasn't throwing up my hands in disgust and saying it's wrong - just saying from my experience

Yup, I know:) Wasn't aiming that at anyone is particular, just a general comment on what seems to be a pretty common attitude.

carls

14-11-2005, 13:07

So your never going to ask someone to babysit? you've never shaken off a hang over or done anything you shouldnt when you were under age?
Its comments like these that make being a young mum and trying to get a fair go in things hard for people.

For starters I havent had my baby yet - and I'm not against asking for someone to babysit. What I am saying is while a girl is at school, she is there to get an education, not to get pregnant and then get her mum to babysit the child on top of paying her school fees, and I know this happens.

Yes I have been drunk and nursed a hangover and partied, but I made sure I was well out of the partying phase of my life before I decided to conceive, so I could be the best example possible to my child.

I am sure that there are teenagers out there that dont party or have been forced to not party because of having a child, but I think all children deserve the right to be children, have a childhood, be a teenager, finish school and party for a few years before settling down. Throwing a child into the mix at that age isnt fair on anyone involved.

carls

14-11-2005, 13:10

carls

14-11-2005, 13:15

Yup, I know:) Wasn't aiming that at anyone is particular, just a general comment on what seems to be a pretty common attitude.

Why do you think this is??????

I've said it before and I will say it again - its the bad ones that are painting a bad picture for the good ones! Boomtish only needs to walk out her front door to be confronted by a whole town of teenage mums, and all I need to do is go to the local shopping centre down the road from work to see every second girl (at best) under 18 pushing a pram!!!!
As Boomtish said before, better education means better choices. If the girls dont get a good education and have a baby, then theres a good chance its going to be a case of monkey see, monkey do, and the whole cycle starts over again, which in turn places strain on the welfare system for generations instead of these girls going on to get a good career and contribute something towards the country. If you dont believe me take a look at the northern and southern suburbs of Adelaide or Inala or Woodridge in Brisbane, where you can see this vicious cycle repeating itself.

Refresh

14-11-2005, 13:22

As Boomtish said before, better education means better choices.

Ishould have said, I agree with that Carls:) I'm not saying that I would ever encourage a teenage girl to have a baby (although I am sure there are circumstances where it has been a planned decision - and there are definately teenage parents doing a great job) all I am saying that it is not useful to be nasty about them...this is not going to help at all. I agree with you abuot breaking the cycle and this is extra important when they are already in the situation!

Condemning them or putting them all in the same basket is going to shame them, not encourage them to seek support or eduation or whatever they need.

pegasus

14-11-2005, 13:23

Rainbowbrite

14-11-2005, 13:33

It all comes down to maturity IMO.

I had MJ 4 days after I turned 25. I had to mature very early having to care for my mum since I was 16. I paid all the bills, did all the work, etc. So I have life experience. BUT i never had a "life." Never went to clubs or parties, never been drunk etc. Some say I should have done these things first.

I also know a girl who was 14 when she fell pregnant, is now 24 & is one of the best mum's i know.

Everyone is different. I agree with others, we need to support mums of all ages :)

RB

cobysmummy

14-11-2005, 13:50

lexi'smum

14-11-2005, 13:52

Carls-parents can still have fun even if they have children, I think this is something all parents need to do once and a while, weather their young or not.And I hope when you have your child you make sure you get out once in a while too.
All i am saying is not every young parent is like the ones in your town, dont judge us from your expeirences, and I know, despite all your hurtful comments, (which to me they have been, this is why i have replyed so much i guess) I can hold my head high because I am doing the best possible job I can given all circumstances and I dont think my age has much to do with that, but with comments like these it makes me think twice about things and about other young mums who may or may not be coping and this lack of support really cant be helping as it really makes you doubt the job you are doing, and i dont think anyone needs that, especially if you havnt expierenced it yourself. I agree girls in school probably shouldnt be having children, but whos job is it to educate them, the older people right? so dont give up on them, help them, everyone. If you feel they deserve more, do something about it, dont just look down on the job others are doing. And if you dont know dont judge. Like I said, not every mum is like your examples, maybe a VERY small % but for all the others out their, (well I know atleast one) your comments are making them feel less for the hard work and good job we are trying to do.
Please just support young mums, and if you cant do that, atleast have the courtisy to keep negative comments to yourself, people may make mistakes but dont make them pay for it the rest of their lives, let them learn and love being a mother, dont shove the bad in their face, its not needed,we know where we stand in society, but dont you think just once it would be nice if we could get a little praise for not giving up on our children and trying our best to give them the world. Because maybe at the end of the day it would be easier to give up on them (adoption, abortion) but taking the easier way out isnt always whats right. Let a mother raise her child whatever her age, and support and respect her decisions.

Mummaof2

14-11-2005, 13:56

[QUOTE=carls]Why do you think this is??????

I've said it before and I will say it again - its the bad ones that are painting a bad picture for the good ones! Boomtish only needs to walk out her front door to be confronted by a whole town of teenage mums, and all I need to do is go to the local shopping centre down the road from work to see every second girl (at best) under 18 pushing a pram!!!!
QUOTE]

Carls,

I have just read all your posts and feel that you are just attacking all mums who had a child under 25yrs. As for your thread above how do you know that these mums pushing a pram are under the age of 18 or that its even there child, they could be babysitting for all you know and not only that im 25 and have been told that i only look about 20. Do you go up to these so called mums under 18 and ask them how old they are.

I had my DD when i was 20 and am now pregnant with my 2nd child.

I would just like to say to all the young mums that you have my support.

ThomasMum

14-11-2005, 13:59

this place is to support young mums.... and obviouslly you are all saying that we dont have a clue in what we are doing... go to your old parents sectiona nd talka bout it there... we are all doing fine with our bubs and dont need your rude comments!
for ur info i finished school... have my licence... and care for my son as good or better than u do...
im saving hard for a home deposit and looking at working next year
go away and leave young mums alone we do fine and dont need ur rude comments... stares from old ppl are enough... keep ur rude comments to urself

Hey Helen, pls dont get upset. I know you are doing a fantastic job raising your kid, you dont need to defend or explain to anyone about it.

I know they are fantastic young mums out there, and fantastic older mums out there, we are all here to learn and help each other.

T'smum

ps am an older mum btw :D and have nothing againts anyone who wants to be mum at under any circumstances! good on ya mums!

carls

14-11-2005, 13:59

stares from old ppl are enough... keep ur rude comments to urself

I'm sorry to have offended 'U"

and you must be young to consider me old at 28.

hmmmm
:rolleyes:

lexi'smum

14-11-2005, 14:03

i agree cobysmum, and like i have said, these comments are hurtful, and not needed, toby@millarsmum, you are right,none of this is helping the young mothers who need help. and thats what this forum is for.

Mummaof2

14-11-2005, 14:07

Carls,

maybe you should wait till your actually a mum and not a mum to be before you start making comments about young mums cause according to you I am a young mum.

It doesnt matter what age you are 16 or 40 raising isnt easy for the first or second or third time round and we all need as much support as we can get whether it be from family or friends or from agreat website like Bub Hub and no one needs negative comments.

lexi'smum

14-11-2005, 14:15

tickle

14-11-2005, 14:18

Really carls? Having a dig while you are supposed to be apologising is a bit wrong in my book.

Pixie

14-11-2005, 14:19

Wow I have been following this on and off, but thought I�d pop back.

I have an opinion.

My mother had me at 16, she had just turned 16 and my dad was 21. So she was pregnant at 15, she went all the way through high school and finished. Her father my grandfather decided for her that it was best that he and his new wife adopt me. I am not really sure that she liked this idea but at 6 weeks old I was adopted and she was made to give up any responsibility for me.

She was very young and she was immature she admits to this day and she still wishes she could of kept me. She lived with us until I was 2 but I never knew her as my mother ever. She then got married at 18 and went on to have subsequent children all who she has raised perfectly well and they have turned out mighty fine.

I only recently (past 2 years) met and been in contact with my birth father. So I can�t speak from his young point of view, but I do know that he was out through the wringer for fathering a child to a minor; he paid full child allowance after I was born mind you. And was terrified of coming near me as they had warned him to stay away.

Growing up knowing your mother had to give you up is bloody hard, you feel like you were not wanted even though I had/have an amazing family who I adore to bits and cherish dearly. The feeling of why was always there.

I can not even imagine what she went through, but I know it tore her heart open to give me up, and I know it hurt my Father a lot as well.

I think if my daughter came home at 15 and said I am pregnant I�d do my darn best to make sure she had our full support of course I�d hope she would be aware of how to protect herself and I do hope it doesn�t happen. But things happen I know I happened!

This is a very personal account I know many teens don�t have the support network, and times are hard. But they are capable of raising children and showing them love and affection regardless of academic education.

I could ramble for hours on this and I have to many a person.

carls

14-11-2005, 14:21

and sorry i dont think everyone agrees carls, it is obvious the older people think its wrong and thats why they waited, its always going to be that, the older against the younger, but it shouldnt be! just because your opinions are different, doesnt mean ours are wrong. We make decisions for what suits us, the individual, and thats our choice! No one has a right to disrespect that.

Agreed. I dont expect you to agree with my opinions, and I've never said your opinions are wrong.

But maybe this thread should have been called 'Young mum support" rather than "How old is young" because it is asking for peoples views which of course is going to spark debate.

If you only want the "yes" people, its the wrong thread!

SweetSerenity

14-11-2005, 15:11

WOW!!! :eek:

I only posted this thread last night and look at it.

Girls i didnt want arguments happening! OMG!

I can't believe how much you girls wrote in the short time i've been off!

The point of this thread wasnt to make you girls lunge at each other, it was honestly just to get peoples different views on what they think is too young~! In saying this though, with your response obviously don't attack either side while writing your reply. It's not nice to be nasty towards each other. Their shouldn't be sides anyway!!!

I supprt all mummys young and old, and this thread was just to get us together to share our opinions on this topic.

I honestly didnt mean to cause a war!!! :(

Love Nat xxx

PS: My mum was married by 18, she had her first child when she was nearly 20 and our family is the most stable loving family ever!!!!
I have friends who's parents are in their 60's and they're family life has been really bad. So the age of the mother is irrelevant!
Unfortunately these days young mums are looked down on compared to 35yrs ago where it was quite normal...why are we young mums so bad now??? :(

lexi'smum

14-11-2005, 15:26

carls- you have come here and posted hurtful and disrespectful comments about young mothers and you cant even apologise for that.
Its not a matter of only wanting yes or no people, thats not what its about, but the negative opinion you feel didnt need to be shared so directly either, your thoughtless comments were IMO unfair, and i believe there could of been less hurtful ways to express what you feel. I am sorry for the people you may have upset and i am so grateful to know not everyone shares the heartless opinions you do.
sorry to cause conflict on such a good and helpful website, I was just hurt by the comments of yet another person who has judged yet never even experienced it.

SweetSerenity

14-11-2005, 15:32

BIG HUG FOR LEXI!
I feel bad because i'm partly responsible for you feeling sad (because i started the thread)...I never wanted anyone to get hurt.
I'm sorry sweetie!!!!
Love Nat xx

Mummy-2-2

14-11-2005, 15:35

I had my beautiful baby at 22, as such was a "young mum"

I also feel that due to my life circumstances, I had an awful lot of life experience before she was born.

I found out at 19 that I was pregnant, through a miscarriage, and was never the same. I felt empty, I couldnt help but love my unknown child, even tho I never knew it existed whilst it was inside of me. yeah, I went out and partied and did all that stuff that some of you say a young person is supposed to do, but I was miserable. I didnt want that lifestyle. All I wanted more than anything was that I would have never miscarried, and been able to stay at home with my angel.

I believe that some people, regardless of age, are born to be parents, and that the rest of us should help them do that.

Even when I was pregnant with my daughter, I copped an old lady coming up to me and telling me off for only getting pregnant for the money. Which was CR**. I feel that I am a damn fine mother, and my daughter is (at this stage) far more advanced than some of the kids in her swimming, dancing, mothers group and gymbaroo classes. And as for the comment about one of the only things young mums are good at is being able to put in a centrelink form. I object LOUDLY. My daughter has the best of everything in my opinion and as for the measly $15 or whatever it is a fortnight that we get from Centrelink, based on my Husband's income (he too is a "young" 24) we donate more than that per year to charity.

I do not feel that stereotyping people is a way of doing things.
If my daughter came to me and said
"mummy, that lady shouldnt be a mummy cos she is fat" I would be horrified, its not the same thing i know, but there are just as many pros and cons to that as there are to being a "young mum"

I personally think that my best friend is too young to have a child at the moment, and she is also 24. But on the other hand, another of my friends was a mum at 18 and her son is not lacking in any way at all.

It is up to the individual, the same way we say, all babies are not the same, some could walk at 9 months and some not be walking until almost a year later, some mothers are ready at a "young" age, and some not until much later

carls

14-11-2005, 15:44

The point of this thread wasnt to make you girls lunge at each other, it was honestly just to get peoples different views on what they think is too young~!

IMO thats what I have done. I said what I thought was too young, in response to a question, I gave reasons for my opinions and people have disagreed and become offended. I have never pointed out one person in particular.

Its just a fact of life that its hard to give your opinion without someone getting offended.

SweetSerenity

14-11-2005, 15:46

And as for the comment about one of the only things young mums are good at is being able to put in a centrelink form. I object LOUDLY. My daughter has the best of everything in my opinion and as for the measly $15 or whatever it is a fortnight that we get from Centrelink, based on my Husband's income (he too is a "young" 24) we donate more than that per year to charity.

I completely agree!
When i decided to keep my son (i had an appointment booked to terminate but pulled out the day before) i did not base this on getting a lousy $44 a fortnight! Why would i??? What a ridiculous thing to say. I work part time, my husband works full time and we only get that $44 a fortnight because i claimed my baby bonus and they have our details! We also didnt decide to keep him because of the $3,000 bonus either!
Having a baby isn't a money making scheme to us. There are the minority of mums out there who are single mums and continually have babies for the money, but why does that make people think all young mums (who even have partners) have the same thing in mind??
I chose to keep him because it felt right, it felt wrong to not bring him into the world and i dont regret anything!

Rainbowbrite

14-11-2005, 15:49

BIG HUG FOR LEXI!
I feel bad because i'm partly responsible for you feeling sad (because i started the thread)...I never wanted anyone to get hurt.
I'm sorry sweetie!!!!
Love Nat xx

Hugs for Lexi from here too.

Natalie, don'e feel bad, it wasn't your intent for this to happen, i hope others realise that. People just have very strong opinions about this kind of thing.

I for one just think its a personal choice. How you raise your child is not affected by your age. I support all mothers regardless of age.

Hugs to Natalie 1985 too :)

RB

SweetSerenity

14-11-2005, 15:51

Its just a fact of life that its hard to give your opinion without someone getting offended.
I do agree with you, but also you really didn't have to say the comment regarding young mums filling out centrelink forms...how many mums are 40, single and popping them out just for the money???
Majority of young mums dont have children for the money, we dont get anything really anyway! We can work instead for the money. Having children isnt an easier way for us to "earn" money than working! Raising a child is ALOT harder then doing a 9-5 job!
I didn't think there was any need for that comment.

SweetSerenity

14-11-2005, 15:52

Thanks rainbow!!!! :D
You're a lovely girl!
Nat xx

Mummy-2-2

14-11-2005, 15:57

Having children isnt an easier way for us to "earn" money than working! Raising a child is ALOT harder then doing a 9-5 job!

Oh my goodness!!! Tell me about it!!! I often tell my DH that he can stay at home and look after our daughter and bake the bun in the oven if he'll let me go back to work!! hehe :D

SweetSerenity

14-11-2005, 16:00

Lol....it's true though!
Being a mum is a 24/7 job, we dont have the luxury of "starting" at 9am then "finishing" at 5pm. I wish! It's never ending...lucky to get an hour to myself and 4 hours sleep lol! :p

Lil X-men

14-11-2005, 16:09

Carls - I wonder if you will still have the same opinion after you have your child???
To me, it really isnt anything to do with age, that makes a good parent or a well morallly rounded child. I have seen both ends of the spectrum the first being a 16yr old mum, who missing out on her youth decided to party it up and neglect her child. The second I've seen is an older mum 35yr old whom had spent her whole life caring for her own needs and couldn't handle sharing it with anyone one else, shoving her 6week old baby into fulltime child care and spending so little time with that it was closer to the staff at daycare than it was to her. Both children are now little terrors unfortunatley. Maturity is not neccessarily something that comes with age, some people never grow up an some people mature faster than the rest, so good mums are everywhere and they are young and old. Bad mums are also everywhere unfortunatley, some are young and some are old.
I had my first at 22yrs (oooh so young, whatever!!!), I am married and we have just bought our first house, There is nothing immoral about the way our son is growing up. I dont recieve any support form C/link and my Husband supports both of us very well whilst paying off a mortgage. No money to be made by us breeding, were paying for it all ourselves, LOL!!!
My Grandma had three children by my age (23) and my mother had me at 21. it seemed to be the way things were supposed to be back then and now we are seen as a bunch of leppers to have children under 25 or to have children over the age of 35 - I say this because there is also alot of opposition and cruelty towards women who chose to have children later on . Since when was there a rule book saying there were only ten years in our lives that it is appropriate to breed?????
Mummy 2-2 I also crammed in a whole lot of " life expereince" before settling down, more than I care to remember!

lexi'smum

14-11-2005, 16:14

Thanks natalie and rainbowbrite,
and natalie, you are not responsible, you had no idea that your post would end up like this :) , your not to blame, and I understand what this post was meant to mean, which is why some comments got to me, cause the post wasnt about that,
and carls, i know you didnt point out anyone inparticular and what you wrote is your opinion but did you honestly have to put it in such a horrible way, i feel you took motherhood for young people and tried to change it from being something beautiful to expressing it as a horrible mistake or a way to get money, people are not less then you because they are younger then you, we are all mums and we are here for advice and to 'chat,share,discover,make friends,belong' as the site says, not to feel inferior to others for being a mum at a younger age then 25. (which is not all that young) try living atleast a day in a young mums shoes, or a mums shoes, and you'l realise that is so different from what you think and no where near as black and white, maybe then you would think about other peoples feelings before you speak.

Refresh

14-11-2005, 16:25

Please just support young mums, and if you cant do that, atleast have the courtisy to keep negative comments to yourself

Well said. Hugs from here to Lexismum too :) I know how you feel....its lke, you get all these insensitive comments about your parenting just becuase you are young but inside you're saying, "I love my child more than anything else in the world, why cant you see that??" The love for a child is so deep its painful and its the same whether you're young or old. Hold your head high, I am sure you're doing a fantsatic job:D

Natalie, it seems clear from your posts that you come from a very loving fmaily and that you are a beautiful mummy as well! Dont feel bad for starting this thread.:D

SweetSerenity

14-11-2005, 16:32

Natalie, it seems clear from your posts that you come from a very loving fmaily and that you are a beautiful mummy as well! Dont feel bad for starting this thread.:D

Thanks Katie!
I'm glad you see that :)
That's it though, we're ALL beautiful mummies regardless! I see the good in everyone, especially mums! We should be compassionate with each other instead, we're all in the same boat even if we're not the same age.
Carls, even though i dont agree with some of your opinions, i will still be here to support you if you need it when you become a mum. Trust me, it's not easy and you'll need all the mum chats in the world!
All of my mum friends who i see regurlarly are 26+! I only have one mum friend whos the same age as me, the rest are alot older, and we dont judge each other whatsoever!
Love Nat xxx

Refresh

14-11-2005, 16:43

That's it though, we're ALL beautiful mummies regardless! I see the good in everyone, especially mums! We should be compassionate with each other instead, we're all in the same boat even if we're not the same age.

Exactly! There is sooo much to deal with when you're a mum.....we, as mothers need to support each other, nurture the good and embrace our differences.!

Refresh

14-11-2005, 16:45

Oh , I keep meaning to say "hugs to Cobysmum!" too. You're a beautiful mummy and dont let anyone tell you different:D

MissSparkle

14-11-2005, 16:53

I just read this whole thread all at once n boy was there alot of opinions flying around. I respect that some ppl think 16,17,18 is too young to be a mother but the truth is when it happens u step up to the plate no matter how hard it may be!
i had my son at 18 so i was doing my hsc while i was pregnant. im now 19 n my fiance is 23 n we r paying off our own house n raise our son just as well as we could have if we were older.
My parents were 22 wen they had me n we were so close coz they had been in my position not that long ago!
I dont like the funny stares u get with ppl thinkin "arent u too young" when i would NEVER look at an older mother n think r u too old!
i guess its an individual opinion n i respect everyones.

razzle

14-11-2005, 17:24

A question for the girls who don't think there is such a thing as too young -

The situation I was talking about with my DSD was a real one...What would you do if your 12year old daughter (or for that matter son) came home and said she was pregnant (before she's even in high school), ? I honestly don't know as I haven't been in this situation, I know we'd have to support DSD if she did get pregnant (whether by choice or "accident")? but there's only so much support you can give. At some stage the child (this is what a 12 year old is) has to take responsibility for their actions. Yes, we'd help out with looking after and financially, but how far do you take it (I don't know what biomum would do), I also know that DH would take a bit to kick in as if things are going on he doesn't approve of or he feels he has no control over he gets very frustrated, and doesn't always admit to them.

Just to answer this question - even though I DO think there is such a thing as too young. Number one, my 12 year old daughter wouldn't EVER be in that situation and number two, if by chance she shunned all the loving attention we shower on her, all the morals we're teaching her and did come home to us pregnant I would be whipping her off for an abortion that fast.... In fact, I would do this to any age child in my care.

jaydensmum

14-11-2005, 17:38

This is a really hard question to answer. I admit i used to think that if i heard of a 16year old getting pg was too young. Now my opinions have changed. I know someone who has had a baby at 16 and thought she couldnt hack it but she totally surprised me. She would have to be one of the best mums i have ever met. She has taken on her responsibilies as an adult would, and im totally proud of her for doing it. If all young mums of this age did the same thing then the bad opinions probably wouldnt happen.

jaydensmum

Refresh

14-11-2005, 18:02

Originally Posted by pegasus
A question for the girls who don't think there is such a thing as too young -

...What would you do if your 12year old daughter (or for that matter son) came home and said she was pregnant (before she's even in high school), ?

Gosh, it is soooo hard to imagine a 12 year old being a mum.

I would be very confident that my 12 year old wouldnt be in that kind of situation..however, it does happen. I am pretty confident that we are raising our kids to have higher morals and self worth than that and to have a relationship with God. I would totally support her/him if it did happen though. I would in no way condone an abortion, I dont think that two wrongs make a right. As a mother (and grandmother OMGoodness lol!) I would see to it that my child and grandchild had the best support they could have and do whatever it takes to make it work. I would take total responsibilty for all involved and just try to make the best of the situation.

Thats my honest opinion:)

tickle

14-11-2005, 18:10

How does a 12 year old possibly get into that situation??
I can understand at 16, when you go to your boyfriends etc, but I wouldn't even let my 12 year old go to her 'boyfriends' house.
I must be really closed off to this topic, but 12 years old wow!!

Refresh

14-11-2005, 18:22

but I wouldn't even let my 12 year old go to her 'boyfriends' house

Yeah, I shudder to think of this even happening.

aardvark

14-11-2005, 18:27

My teenager called me on her mobile a few weeks ago.

She was on school camp with some of her friends. One of them started panicking about was she, or wasn't she pregnant, at age 15, as her period was AWOL.

Apparently I'd been voted the mum most likely to be approachable for advice on the matter. I suppose I should be flattered, but I was more concerned that the girl could not speak to her own mother about it. It doesn't seem right.

It did surprise me that the level of knowledge of some teenage girls is quite lacking. I thought they would be more "educated" these days than what my cohort was at the same age.

This girl had started taking the pill after having unprotected sex, and was worried that because she was on the pill, a pregnancy test kit would show up with a +ve regardless of whether she was or wasn't. And she was feeling tired and unwell.

It did prompt me to tell my daughter that if she ever found herself in the same situation, I'd prefer she come straight to me, rather than pussy footing about hoping I didn't find out. I'd much rather be involved in helping her through the whole mess, one way or another, than only possibly finding out by accident.

As to how old is young, I figure anything under 20 is young to be a parent, but then there are teenagers who are wise beyond their years, and there are 40 year olds who need to grow up.

Oscar's mum

14-11-2005, 18:32

OMG I just read this thread from top to bottom and it made me incredibly sad :( .

I believe that under 25 isn't to young to have a baby. My god I am 23 apparently I am too young. So how do all you 25 year olds feel, pretty damn old huh I bet you can see the grey hairs coming through already.

I don't think we should put an age on what is too young to have a baby, everyone matures and gains life experiences at a different rate. No one can say that a 17 year old hasn't had enough life experience to look after a baby nor can they say the same for a 40 year old, both the 17 and 40 year old just have DIFFERENT LIFE EXPERIENCES .

As for the post about what if your 12 year old came home and said they were pregnant, well lets all hope that we have better parenting skills then people that have been in this circumstance and trust that we will bring our kids up differently and to know better than that.

Pixie

14-11-2005, 18:38

I always wanted kids at a younger age, but decided to wait, I just wanted to be older call me selfish but I wanted to see more of the world. I love to travel. Now I am pregnant earlier than originally planned never happeier and my travels well some of the more adventurous will have to wait we were planning on Antartica within the next two years not now lol.

Oh I am 28 BTW :D Yes an old old mummy to be lol :p

ThomasMum

14-11-2005, 18:43

If 28 is old, then I must be a granny(Mum)!.......

:o

aardvark

14-11-2005, 18:45

I had my first at age 24.5. When that child was at kinder, the other mums used to call me the "Baby Mum", as they were all over 35, many over 40 at the time.

I'm now expecting #3 at age 39.

It's easier at the other end of the age spectrum, I can tell you.

tickle

14-11-2005, 19:14

It's easier at the other end of the age spectrum, I can tell you.
I think this is the point a lot of people have been trying to make.
Some people would tell you the opposite. My aunty said it was so much easier when she was in her early 20's compared to having a 4 year old now at 44.
I think everyones experiences are different and the right age is really different for every person.

P.S Since when is 28 an old anything? :p

LittleBoysRock

14-11-2005, 21:33

Everybody is perfectly able to have their own opinion on this one but I can tell you I am 22 and have a 4 month old Son. Might I add I am very happily married to a wonderful man.

I think I am a great Mum. I do everything I can to make my son's life happy and healthy. He is developing fantastically.

I read about his development and do all I can to assist him. I read to him, sing to him. LOVE HIM, he is always clean and well fed.

The ladies in my Mother's group range in age from 35-22 and honestly we are equals and have the same queries with raising our children.

Each to their own I say!

pegasus

14-11-2005, 21:59

Just to clarify my earlier post about the 12year old - yes it is a real situation and no it's not my DSD. I had a really good talk to her about ways that she can avoid such situations like that, to realise that she doesn't have to do everything a boyfriend might ask and to consider doing her own thing for a while more as there's many more years that can go by before she has to make a decision about something like that (ie have a child). The fact that I had to talk to her about it makes me sad :(

If you think it can't happen to you or your child- think again. I truly believe that I'm bringing up my DS (and will do the same with #2) to have morals and make choices, but I'm not naive to think that they might do something that I might not have intended for them (ie sex with someone they believe they love but before they are of an age that I think they can recognise it for what it is).

As for my DSD - she is a great girl just a bit insecure and seeks out attention where she can find it. We try to give her all the love and security we can when she's with us (but there's only so much you can do in 10% of the time with a child). However, I refuse to believe that the girl in her class is a one of a kind in Australia and just remember her mother probably didn't believe that she'd ever come home pregnant at this age either - she probably just told her mum that she was staying over girlfriend's houses when it was her (16yr old) boyfriend.

As I said before, my intention has not been to pass judgement or offend anyone, just share my experiences.

Refresh

14-11-2005, 22:06

The fact that I had to talk to her about it makes me sad

Yeah it is sad :( Kids are doing waaay too much too early these days. You are right that we can never be 100% sure that it wont happen to us....my mother never would have dreamed that I would have gotten up to half the things I did when I was a kid!

As I said before, my intention has not been to pass judgement or offend anyone, just share my experiences

Sharing your own real life experiences isnt offensive! I dont think your posts have been judgemental at all. :)

♥Heaven Sent♥

14-11-2005, 22:30

I dont think that any of you older members have the right to judge us as being too young and immature i fell pregnant at 17 had my daughter at 18 am now 19 and am pregnant with my second i love my baby with all my heart and i am a good mother i think that any other person young or old would have struggled with looking after my baby she had colic and relflux as a baby and was up till 5 every morning it was hard yes but i got through it as anyone would i think any young person would tell you the same thing that we are sick of being judged.

carls

15-11-2005, 06:34

Carls, even though i dont agree with some of your opinions, i will still be here to support you if you need it when you become a mum. Trust me, it's not easy and you'll need all the mum chats in the world!

Thanks! I'm sure I'll do fine. :)

And just think, if no one gave conflicting opinions, it would make for a very boring thread, with everyone hugging one another.
I dont apologise for my opinions - and I am pretty certain they will never change, but I do apologise for upsetting some of you.

:)

cosmic

15-11-2005, 07:00

I haven't read the whole thread, but figured it would be a lively debate when I saw the opening posts.

My first reaction was that under 20 is too young (ie teen pregnancy).. but then I thought perhaps I'm just thinking that way because it was certainly too young for ME! Not because I was immature - quite the opposite, but I certainly could not have handled a baby getting in the way of uni, work, travelling... far too many things I wanted to do first. So perhaps for other people (and I know some of them!) having a baby and being a mum is what they consider to be most important - more important than all those other things.

There are certainly benefits in havingt them young. Body bounces back quicker. More energy etc. And my mum had my brother and I before she was 19, so by the time she was my age (33) she had her life back because we were self-sufficient. Cool! Mind you, I'm sure if she had her time over, she would not have been pregnant at the age she was (and definitely not with the partner!).

I do agree that people who think they are old enough, are sometimes not old enough to recognise they are not. :rolleyes: And girls having babies at 12, 13... even 15 or 16 is too young in my opinion. Babies having babies.

Edited to add: Carls, I totally agree. Have an opinion and stand by it. Agreeing with everyone makes for a very boring forum. ;)

carls

15-11-2005, 07:13

I would like to add - when my mum found out I was sexually active, the first thing she did was march me straight to the GP to get the pill, got me a gynaecologist and made sure I took the pill until I moved out of home at 19. And she made me fully aware of the repercussions if I got pregnant under her roof - I would be looking for a new place to live or have an abortion. There was no way she was putting me through all those expensive years of private catholic education and strict upbringing and ending up with a pregnant teenage daughter. Fair enough too! As a result I got a great education, moved on to travel the world and have the career and pay packet that I want and deserve.

My whole family has always been very career minded. Even when I announced my pregnancy at 28 my mother was disgusted and my grandfathers first question was "what about your job?".

This is the way I have been brought up, I firmly believe that what they did was right and the best thing for me. I am about education and career in order to support a family as I wouldnt put my kids in public school and want them to have the best of everything as I did.

So maybe this gives you a bit of an idea of where my opinions stem from. Its not just society that forms our opinions, its our upbringing and own experiences.

Oscar's mum

15-11-2005, 07:21

There was no way she was putting me through all those expensive years of private catholic education and strict upbringing and ending up with a pregnant teenage daughter. Fair enough too! As a result I got a great education, moved on to travel the world and have the career and pay packet that I want and deserve.

I am what you would call a young mum (23) and I had years of private catholic education a strict up bringing, I have travelled the world and I have a pay packet that I deserve and want. Just because I am young does not mean that I have not achieved the same as you and that I should have waited till I was older to have a child. I just have different priorites.

I

lexi'smum

15-11-2005, 08:16

So maybe this gives you a bit of an idea of where my opinions stem from. Its not just society that forms our opinions, its our upbringing and own experiences.

Yes carls, your opinions may come from this, but I dont think your own life experiences gives you the right to judge others about the choices they make.
Each to their own, You have stated your opinion and its obviously your upbringing that has made you feel this way, and that is fair enough, but you must remember your way isnt the only way, thats all i was trying to say, make you realise that by being so direct and lacking compassion in your opinion u were hurting people and I dont believe thats what this forum is for, sure we wont all agree, thats obvious. As for upbringing and experiences I had an excellent and loving upbringing, I was taught morals and respect and everything I needed, I went to a public school as it was the only one in our small town, and I got a better education then alot of people I know, I passed my HSC with flying colours, moved away from my home, hours away from any family at all, and have since had a baby completed my masters in fitness and now going on to study physiotherapy, I have travelled the world and gained many many life experiences, sure my little one wasnt planned but i could never imagine it any other way, and i dont think anyone has the right to judge and make harsh comments about the choices people make for themselves, younger mums do just a good job and the reason they have to work so much harder to gain respect for that is because of comments like those in previous threads, like I said in my first post a mother is a mother doesnt matter what her age, we are all the same and all equal just trying to give our child the best in life, why must we make it harder then it needs to be.
And I also think sharing life experiences with a child is just as special (if not more) then being able to just teach them to them, but that may just be me, I am so happy to know I will be able to grow and learn with my DD, to meet my grandchildren and great grandchildren. Thats what life and family is about to me, not who has the better job better house better pay packet, sure these things may be a fact of life, but its not why we were put on this planet!

razzle

15-11-2005, 08:20

Yes carls, your opinions may come from this, but I dont think your own life experiences gives you the right to judge others about the choices they make.
I don't think Carls was judging anyone - she's just stating her opinion - which clearly differs from yours.

Jaileth

15-11-2005, 09:47

Wow.

I posted at the start of this thread - and have just read it again, from start to finish.

IMHO - Carls - I usually love reading your posts, you have some of the most amazing things to say. But in this thread, I found I was offended. I realize that it was not intentional on your behalf - but maybe it's because I fall into your 'too young' category. I feel as though some of your posts could have been worded a little more diplomatically, particularly seeing how upset some of the other girls were getting - but that is just my opinon. I do have a question for you. Do you believe that under 25 is too young because you weren't ready to have kids then? Or is it because of what you see when you go down to the shops?

I have to say that if my (hypothetical) 12 year old came home and told me she was pregnant, I wouldn't know what to do. I would try and support her as much as I possibly could, but as to dh.....well, he's just glad we're having a boy! ;)

I guess as a generalization, girls under 16 having children is too young - I honestly never thought of anyone younger than that. Maybe it just shows how naieve I really am?!

Even saying that though, I'm a huge supporter of mum's everywhere. Of any age. I think that mum's cop enough crap from strangers, the government and some times their own families (no matter what age) that a place like bubhub is a fantastic place to support each other.

I admit that I am a perfectionist, and a budding author at that - but I will sit at the computer and make sure that the opinion I have is given in such a way as to offend as few people as possible. The written word can be taken so many ways, I just think that if we took a bit more care in how we wrote it, things wouldn't have gotten quite as inflamed. (Not trying to pick on anyone BTW, just my opinion - and doesn't just relate to this thread!)

Everyone's post here has been really intresting. It facinates me to try and figure out where each of you come from - and now I think I have another tiny peice of the puzzle for some of you.

***hugs*** to all - and all of you are great mums, no matter what age, race, skin colour or creed you are!

carls

15-11-2005, 12:26

I do have a question for you. Do you believe that under 25 is too young because you weren't ready to have kids then? Or is it because of what you see when you go down to the shops?

It would be silly to form an opinion based solely on the fact that I was too young then (hey - I still think I'm too young now!).

Its mostly what I have seen around me, and the friends that I have. I only have one friend that had a baby early and it was very difficult for them to give up their partying ways, which has carried over into the childs toddler years (long story - I wont go into it). Most of my friends are in their 30's and are only beginning to settle down and still dont have children. It makes me shudder to think of what they would have been like as parents years ago. This is a broad spectrum of friends, by the way.
In regards to the teen mums I see out and about, yes I do see the occassional one that looks decent but still a bit too young, but to be honest they are overshadowed by all the bad ones I see. And trust me - these girls ARENT babysitting. They are fair and square the mothers - and if they did happen to be babysitting they are downright irresponsible!
I'm talking obvious teens, foul mouths, cigarettes, kids running amuck, clothes that leave a lot to be desired, just hanging around shopping centres (not shopping - hanging around) with their girlfriends and a pram in tow.
I am in no way saying that these are you girls!!!!
You may say these things dont matter, and that love only matters - but I have news for you - it does matter. The image you portray is very important. You wouldnt go to a job interview in a tracksuit and thongs!
All I am saying and have ever said is that these girls are the ones that put the negative picture in my head and society's head which is why teen mums get a bad wrap. I am sorry that this is the case as well. Society pigeon-holes people based on what they see, and first impressions last. Maybe if these bad eggs actually made an effort to dress like they respected themselves, disciplined their children and took them to the park or somewhere to entertain them instead of hanging around shopping centres in packs acting anti-social (giving the child the impression that this kind of lifestyle is ok), then we wouldnt have this opinion of them.

And sure - there are older people that are just as bad - but the thing is being such a young mum (and I dont mean the 21-15 age bracket - I mean teens) will automatically draw attention to yourself, so you need to make the best impression you can to change the mind of society. So instead seeing a dero teen mum and thinking "yep - typical", they think "ok shes young, but she looks great, is acting responsibly, her child is well behaved....thats ok".

Can I also ask - you say to each other that youre all fantastic mums etc. How do you know this about people you have never met? I would never make the assumption that someone is a good or bad mum from what I read on a chat room.

As it has been said before - giving birth does not instantly make you a mother. My partners mother certainly gave birth to him, but she has NEVER been a mother.

Now dont go and take offence and think that I'm saying any of you are bad mothers - because I cannot make that assumption!!!!

I am definitely generalising, and am trying to make things as clear as possible :o

Refresh

15-11-2005, 12:42

so you need to make the best impression you can to change the mind of society. So instead seeing a dero teen mum and thinking "yep - typical", they think "ok shes young, but she looks great, is acting responsibly, her child is well behaved....thats ok".

The thing is though Carls, that young mums feel like they are in the spotlight so much more because of this. If a child has a tantrum in a shopping centre (which EVERY child has done) and the mother looks young, she will get way more "looks" "oh, its because shes young" than if the mum was older. So, basically, if you have kids young, no matter how good a mum you are, you're behind the 8 ball before you even start.

The day each person is judged as an individual and not by their "socio-economic" or age group, the world will be a better place. Mothers shouldn't have to feel like they are being judged by what others do, theres already enough pressure without being responsible for "holiding up ther side."

Why not just give everyone a fair go and accept them as individuals?

Refresh

15-11-2005, 12:44

Can I also ask - you say to each other that youre all fantastic mums etc. How do you know this about people you have never met? I would never make the assumption that someone is a good or bad mum from what I read on a chat room.

I think it is lovely to say to someone that they are (or seem like) a fantastic mum. I love hearing that and it makes me want to be an even better mum. I find that way more useful than being negative.

Benandrewsmum

15-11-2005, 12:54

I had my first baby at 31 and do not think that I could have coped 1 second earlier!! I think all people are different so it's hard to put an age on it.

Cheers

Mummy-2-2

15-11-2005, 12:58

Alright

After Posts and posts from Carls and me not agreeing at all, I agree with her on some things.

Yes, I am a young mum, but yes I totally think that some of the mothers you see in shopping centres etc aren't giving the rest of us the best impression about them.
I agree that YES, there are far more children/"young" mother combos that I look twice at than at "older" mother/children combos, simply based on appearance.

However, I at 24, look a lot younger and dont like getting stereotyped as one of "those" mothers simply because I look young.

I think alot of us young mums take the time to clean our kids and their clothes properly etc, and to make sure they are being fed correctly and taught decent things, however yeah, some of the mums in the shops OBVIOUSLY dont do that, and therefore the rest of us are getting tarred with the same brush.

Carls is definitely not old either and I agree that in a lot of cases, education and a job etc IS the best way to go, but in a select few cases, that may not be a reasonable choice for the individual, based on their situation.

She has previously stated that there are different situations that warrent a different opinion from her ( someone who was told they couldnt have kids and therefore tried, and had one at a younger age) and therefore I think it is obvious that she is talking generally and not about all of you (and me) individually.

Before we all jump on her for having her opinion, and I agree that it upset me too, can we try and see that she is not attacking us and if she knew us, she might change her opinion, but based on her life, she knows what she knows. There is nothing wrong with that. She has never said that she thinks we in particular are bad mothers, just that there are some out there.

I am starting to think that this forum has turned into a b**** fight and poor Carls has been copping it because she maybe hasnt been as tactful as you would have liked.

And to Carls---- Sorry for talking about you in 3rd person and sorry if I said something you didnt mean (please feel free to correct me) , I was merely trying to stop the cattiness, and I do think you are allowed your opinion.

Lots of peace to all of you... Dont get upset, its a chatroom. Turn off the computer, calm down and try and think about some of the nice things Carls has said, instead of instantly picking on all the things you dont like. :cool:

Jaileth

15-11-2005, 13:04

Thanks for answering Carls, it makes things a bit clearer on where you're coming from (for me, anyway)

I have to agree with Toby@Millar'sMum - that hearing positive things makes you want to be even better at that particular thing.

Can I also ask - you say to each other that youre all fantastic mums etc. How do you know this about people you have never met? I would never make the assumption that someone is a good or bad mum from what I read on a chat room.

The reason that I said 'all of you are great mums' is that is how these women come across to me - perhaps I should have said 'you all seem like great mums'? - and as I've been using this site to read up on all kinds of things that kids get up to, hearing from people who are going through things that I never imagined kids doing, I have naturally assumed that the other people using this site are using it for the same thing - to get as much up to date information and as many ideas as possible to aide them in raising their child the best way possible. That is why I believe that the people here are great parents. They are trying to do what is best for their child.

Oscar's mum

15-11-2005, 13:15

clothes that leave a lot to be desired, just hanging around shopping centres (not shopping - hanging around) with their girlfriends and a pram in tow.
I am in no way saying that these are you girls!!!!
:o

Can I point out that sometimes bubs do get dirty when you are out shopping there is nothing you can do about that. I don't know how many times we have gone out shopping before with spare clothes in tow and ended up walking out of the shopping centre with bub just dressed in his singlet with loads of dribble on it and a nappy.

About hanging around the shopping centres well every Thursday myself and a few mums I know just hang around in the shopping centres, why because it is air conditioned, we may not be actually shopping, but hey don't alot of older mothers do that too? :confused:

carls

15-11-2005, 13:16

The day each person is judged as an individual and not by their "socio-economic" or age group, the world will be a better place. Mothers shouldn't have to feel like they are being judged by what others do, theres already enough pressure without being responsible for "holiding up ther side."

I agree that the world would be a wonderful place if this was to happen - but lets get real - its not going to happen. Pigeon-holeing people happens everywhere, to all walks of life. When I was travelling after Sept 11 and I saw an arab board my plane, I was suspicious. Sure he was probably a kind, gentle, loving man that was just boarding a flight, but how was I to know? Unfortunately it only takes a bad few to ruin it for everyone.

carls

15-11-2005, 13:20

About hanging around the shopping centres well every Thursday myself and a few mums I know just hang around in the shopping centres, why because it is air conditioned, we may not be actually shopping, but hey don't alot of older mothers do that too? :confused:

Er....no - I go to shopping centres to shop. I have never known anyone to say "well I'm off to the shops to keep cool" :confused:

Oscar's mum

15-11-2005, 13:23

Er....no - I go to shopping centres to shop. I have never known anyone to say "well I'm off to the shops to keep cool" :confused:

Given that you live in SA and not in QLD, going to the shops to keep cool in QLD is really quite popular amongst any age.

carls

15-11-2005, 13:24

Before we all jump on her for having her opinion, and I agree that it upset me too, can we try and see that she is not attacking us and if she knew us, she might change her opinion, but based on her life, she knows what she knows. There is nothing wrong with that. She has never said that she thinks we in particular are bad mothers, just that there are some out there.

I am starting to think that this forum has turned into a b**** fight and poor Carls has been copping it because she maybe hasnt been as tactful as you would have liked.

Oh thats ok! I dont get offended or upset very easily - I have a skin as thick as an elephants! I dont mind if people fire up at me - it makes me look at things a bit closer.
I've never been the master at tact! :rolleyes:

Refresh

15-11-2005, 13:36

I agree that the world would be a wonderful place if this was to happen - but lets get real - its not going to happen. Pigeon-holeing people happens everywhere, to all walks of life.

What? So if you cant beat 'em join 'em? Whats that saying, "Be the change you want to see in the world..." I love that:)

I am not personally offended by anything that has been posted here. I just feel for any of the younger mums that may be reading this and not posting who maybe came here to find some support only to read things like...

Well she may have finished school, may have moved out of home, may have learnt how to pay a bill or two, may have learnt to drive a car, may know how to lodge a Centrelink form, but is probably an expert at getting into a club underage, shaking off a nasty hangover and asking her mum to babysit.

I totally agree that everyone has a right to their opinions, I just think there is a difference between that and being judgemental. However,

I've never been the master at tact!

Ya know? I think you may be right there loL! And we'll have to forgive you for that:D

carls

15-11-2005, 13:49

14-25 is considered a young parent. I think 40 is young, but its classified as an "older parent". 25-35 seems to be the overall ideal age to have children, but there is no "ideal age parent" section which I seem to belong in. I want to be seen as older but not balancing my baby on my walking frame, and also want to be young, but dont want people to think bub is getting in the way of my homework, so I really dont know where to turn....

I DONT BELONG!

:D ;)

Refresh

15-11-2005, 13:51

Hehe i dont belong either - almost 28 too old to be a "young mum" but too young to be a "mature mum"....what to do? :p

Oscar's mum

15-11-2005, 13:52

I DONT BELONG!

:D ;)

I think alot of people feel that way. I don't think any of us belong! :p

Refresh

15-11-2005, 13:54

Oscars mum, you live in the next suburb to me!:D

Refresh

15-11-2005, 13:55

...or did we already know that and I've forgotten? :o ;)

Oscar's mum

15-11-2005, 13:57

...or did we already know that and I've forgotten? :o ;)

lol I don't think we did know that but if we did we have both forgotten! :p lol

Which suburb are you?

sunflower

15-11-2005, 14:13

i totally agree that it depends on life experiences and maturity! the same question can be asked about what age is too young to get married... dh and i are both just 24 we got married at the beginning of last year when we were 22, the thing is i look like i'm in my teens and even now i hesitate saying that i'm married coz of the funny judgemental looks i get back and also not looking forward to getting the same looks when i do get pg and have a baby! after what we have been through last year, we have probably had more life experience and have grown up alot faster than most people in thier 20's and 30's. life is short and we never know what's around the corner. my dh had cancer last year and i believe that it is something that no matter what age you are should never have to go through, so YES my dh was too young to get cancer, but NO we wern't too young to get married and we are not too young to have a baby.. it's our choice no one elses!

at the young age of 24 i'm proud to say that dh and i have conquered cancer, brought a house, gotten married, finished my degree in psychology and are trying to make a baby if we are too young when do you think we will be ready???? ;)

carls

15-11-2005, 14:23

at the young age of 24 i'm proud to say that dh and i have conquered cancer, brought a house, gotten married, finished my degree in psychology and are trying to make a baby if we are too young when do you think we will be ready???? ;)

Now THERES a great personal story! After everything you have been through, I am sure you are more than mature enough to be a mum - and if either myself or DP were faced with cancer, I'm sure that would make us re-assess everything in our lives. I think having done all those things by 24 is a great accomplishment.
:)

Oscar's mum

15-11-2005, 14:30

the thing is i look like i'm in my teens and even now i hesitate saying that i'm married coz of the funny judgemental looks i get back

I actually had an argument with a Dr about my marital status not too long ago he kept referring to me as Miss so I politely told him oh by the way it is Mrs and he ke3pt saying no Miss I then saide look I am actually married to which he looked astonished and then asked how olde I was what nerve huh!

Refresh

15-11-2005, 14:42

Which suburb are you?

Ferny Hills:D

sunflower

15-11-2005, 14:44

thankyou carls, we are proud of what we have and what we have been through and even feel grateful, because now we look at life differently and cherish every moment!

oscar's mum how rude!! last year when dh was getting treatment a number of times the nurses asked if i was his sister!! i always said angrily back NO I'M HIS WIFE!!! i guess the lesson to be learned here is people are judgemental and if you don't look like the stereotype be prepared to be looked down on! it's just the way it is all we can do is stand proud of what we have and who we are!!

Taddy

15-11-2005, 14:45

i am a young mum and proud of it!
i dont think that any of you can say how young is to young... it depends on the individual person and our age has nothing to do on what kind of mother we are...
truth is we love our children and care for them as much as any old mother would,.. and i think it is rude for you all to say that we are immature and wont be able to care for our children.
my son has everything he needs and much more...
he has all the love an dcare he needs and a mother and father who love him and each other.. i guess u think we are also too young to know what love is and cant possibly love someone??
i have been with cobys dad for 4 years and we love each other..
you are never too young... or too immature to love and care for a child

I totally agree with cobysmum. I am also a young mum at the age of 18. My son means the world to me and his father. I and Jaydens dad are engaged and have been together for over 5yrs.

Yes I do believe that there are young mothers. My first impression when my sister announced she was pergnant at 14, I was shocked then I blamed it on myself. As with my older sister had her baby when she was 25 but before hand she had had 2 miscarriages and I got the blame for that because bout a week after she had lost her baby I found out I was pregnant.

Lunar

15-11-2005, 14:51

I was 20 when my first was born, 19 when I fell pregnant.
Before I fell pregnant I was living with my partner and had been in full time work for 3 years. I was mature enough to manage bills keep a car running, and save money. I thought and still think that I am mature for my age especially when I compare myself to others my age who are still going out partying every other night. I do however agree to an extent that there is an age that is too young. I am not saying that younger mums are not as good carers as older ones just that some are just not MENTALLY ready OR stable fot motherhood. Thier bodies have not yet even finished growning themselves, but things happen and I'm a believer that everything happens for a reason. I know people who are older than me and are no way mature enough to care for another human being, they can barely care for themselves.
On the other end of the scale, what age is too OLD? What kind of lives do children have growing up with older parents? My grandfather was 42 when my dad was born and he has always said that his dad was always too tired to even kick the ball around with him and by the time he turned 21 his dad was already 63!
Everyone is entitled to the life they choose but do some really think about their children? or future children? How old will they be on their first day at school or high school or their wedding day? Surely you don't want to be using a walking frame for any of those days? And if your children follow in your foot steps, will you ever meet your grandchildren???
Kris.

SweetSerenity

15-11-2005, 15:58

I'm still overwhelmed with how popular this thread has become.

I honestly don't feel like i'm too young to have a child. I did suffer through PND though, which made me feel useless and like i made a mistake, but since i've been on medication, i feel so confident as a mum and know that i'm great at it!!!!
Me and Brett love every minute of being parents to our angel as we've both always wanted to be parents.
I think i've had a lot of life experience aswell even though i'm 20! Maybe not the same as you all (i dont think a uni degree is necessary to be successful or respected by others), but definately experiences that have made me mature and become the person i am today.
My mum had an abusive alcoholic father (he abused my grandma alot) and we unfortunately saw this through our childhood, thankfully it's stopped now but at the age of 9 it was a hard thing to experience!!!

At the age of 16 i went to the city every week by myself on public transport to do my make up course and i was surrounded by 20+ women so i grew up SO quickly being with them all. During this time if i wasmn't studying on the 3 days i was working my two jobs, so i was busy every single day of the week without a break!

I also lost a close frined who commited suicide which was a tough thing to go through! During this time we also found out that my eldest brother was gay, which was hard on the family! We all love him and accept him, but my dad found it very hard to cope with at first. It was a big strain on our family as there was alot of adjusting we had to do.

We went through a very hard financial time as a family at the age of 17 i was giving my parents my weekly pay just to help make ends meet...we eventually got through it but that made me grow up so much going through this tough time with my parents. It really makes you realise how money is so important!!!

I never went to clubs and boozed it up, i always was more into staying at home, paying off my car, insurance, rego and providing everything i needed for myself.
So out of everything i've just told you, i don't see how i would not be responsible enough or mature enough to have a child.

I take pride in myself, and i too think impressions last, so i'm always looking my best and believe in dressing "appropriately" as a mum. I never want my son to be embarressed to have us as parents which is why we are working so hard to teach him the right morals and build a beautiful life for him. We probably won't even have any more children as we think its important to provide everything you can to one, instead of struggling to live with two. He's the most important person in our lives, and we'll do anything to guide him down the right path for his future!
My husband and i work our bums off so we can buy our own house at the end of next year.

I honestly don't think age will ever have anything to do with how well of a family life you can provide for your children! We are doing so well and i'm so proud of how far we've come. I'm proud of the person i am today and being a mum at 20 doesnt make me any less of a person. It makes me stronger in so mnay ways, and has made me experience a completely different kind of love!

I just wanted to let you all know why i dont think i'm too young whatsoever!

Love Nat xxx

PS: My husband also at the age of 11 helped his mum care for his dying father over approximately two years! His other "older" brothers didn't want anything to do with it and were never home to help, but he stepped up to the plate and cared for his father along with his mum. He suffered from luey body disease (very rare, it's a mix between parkinsons and alzheimers). So he too had a rough time and had a lot of "life experiences".

ThomasMum

15-11-2005, 16:10

Surely you don't want to be using a walking frame for any of those days? And if your children follow in your foot steps, will you ever meet your grandchildren???
Kris.

Umm thats wee bit harsh dont you think LOL

SweetSerenity

15-11-2005, 16:13

Thomasmum...i love it how you swap all your pictures of your little man on your avater..they're so cute! :)
Love Nat xx

ThomasMum

15-11-2005, 16:21

Thomasmum...i love it how you swap all your pictures of your little man on your avater..they're so cute! :)
Love Nat xx

Aww thanks Natalie, you are very kind! :D

razzle

15-11-2005, 17:40

Surely you don't want to be using a walking frame for any of those days? And if your children follow in your foot steps, will you ever meet your grandchildren???
Kris.
I'd rather be a grandmother at 60-70 years old than a great-grandmother at 60-70 years old....

My mum had me at 33 and I had Eloise at 35. So I guess I followed in her footsteps to use your words. And believe me, she's certainly still kicking on at almost 70. Had she had me at 16, and then I had a child at 16 and then my child had a child at 16, then my mother would be a great-grandmother at the ripe old age of 64.

Lil X-men

15-11-2005, 17:49

I had my son at 22 my mum is 45 and now a grandma and my grandma is 64 and now a great grandma - she is very proud to be one too!!! I'm not knocking the older parents either just saying how it is with us and we're all very happy about it.
I think having kids in your thirites is fine no complaints you are still young enough to enjoy being an active parent and then grandparent, but these women having ivf babies overseas that are 55+ in fact I saw one on the news that was 70, that is just ridiculous I'm sorry. That really would mean they would be using a walking frame when their kids are at high school, imagine it, 70!!! :eek:

tickle

15-11-2005, 17:53

Really what difference does it make what age you are a great grandmother??
I really don't get that.
I really appreciated having a young grandma but my nana is a bit older and I didn't mind that either.

Lunar

15-11-2005, 18:16

Rach,
I'm sorry if it sounded harsh and appologise to anyone who took offence.
I just hear so many people saying how young people are when they have children, I have no problem with whatever age you decide to have kids I was just seeing it from another point of view. I cop alot of stares whilst out and I'm nearly 24! When I had my first people used to say to me 'shouldn't you be in school???'
I was 20! I thought I was a bit young too but only because I wasn't planning on starting a family until I was 25. I here of older mums starting families in their late 30's and well into their 40's and they don't seem to cop anything. I don't have a problem with it at all. Tho I do know people who did start their families later in life and they kind of wish they'd done it sooner. I work with a lady, and a lovely lady she is, She is the same age as my mum and her eldest is 12.
I don't want to offend anyone just stating my opinion. Isn't what these sites are all about?
Hope all are well.
Kris.

Krissy

15-11-2005, 20:11

My mum had me when she was 15 pregnant at 14 i was unplanned and im sure at the begining unwanted but from what i can tell through talking to my mum an overwhelming feeing comes over you when you know you are going to become a mother i come from the most loving and caring family i can think off and i love my mum to bits she is an amazing person to have done what she did and i am forever greatful. I personally think 15 is way too young to have a baby and that was made perectly clear to me when i was growing up. I had the best childhood and never wanted for anything went to private schoold travelled overseas. young mothers should be supported some people just dont realise how hurtful they are sometimes the things people used to say to my mother were terrible and totally uncalled for. My mum is my best friend and i now have a 3 and a half year old brother and a 2 week old sister.

I am 19 and trying to have a baby i have gone my HSC travelled around the world and have a fulltime job my partner has his own busisnes and we are allot more stable then most of the adults i know. I have also delt with things in my life that gives you allot more experience then age ever could.

I dont want to feel as though just because im a young and trying to concieve on this forum that i am being looked down on i enjoy coming this site so much and have met some fantastic people over in the trying to concieve threads. Please dont tell us we are to young i want to be a mother more then anything and for all the right reasons just like any 30 yr old who is trying to concieve i cant see any diffrence.

elle101

15-11-2005, 20:12

I read most of this thread up until this point, and I felt I just had to reply to this statement by Carls:

" There was no way she was putting me through all those expensive years of private catholic education and strict upbringing and ending up with a pregnant teenage daughter. Fair enough too! As a result I got a great education, moved on to travel the world and have the career and pay packet that I want and deserve."

I had pretty much the same circumstances you describe. I was not a "teen pregnancy" but I was under your age of recommendation. I am now 21 and my daughter is 4 months old, and live with my beautiful gorgeous partner.

I'm not even that "young" in my opinion. I think had you got yourself into that "situation" as you describe your mother's feelings may have been quite different to kicking you out.

Also, I have a child and guess what I'm in my 3rd year of uni and still am getting a GREAT education, have travelled the world and in 2 years will be getting the pay packet I deserve.

You know in these times it is possible to get that education and pay packet WITH a child, by doing study part time. Also you can do courses by correspondence etc so you wont be getting your parents to babysit. But this is not a necessary part of life. It DOES NOT make you a better mum!

Some mums want to start motherhood young and have no desire to do this. So what should they do ?? Get to that grand old age of wisdom (25 in your book) and then concieve?

I find that your views apply to your life and circumstances. That is great. BUT it is no excuse to apply those to everyone.

Even people with circumstances the same as yours have children early, and not as a result of disrespecting their parents or their "catholic" values. (BTW I think you'll find jesus' mother was approx 13 when she had him if you study the history of his life ;) )

I can see that the young mums here are great mums who not only love their children deeply but also didn't give into the expectations of their parents and society. That is to be applauded in my opinion.

The "how young is too young" question was asked, you gave your very blunt, one sided and ill informed opinion.

Some people with the same upbringing as you have children and are lovin' it. So are their families.

Some people with different life paths and expectations to you are also doing it, with life partners and without.... not for the baby bonus, centrelink benifets but for THEIR CHILDREN, THEMSELVES, with or with out partners.

Think outside the square... what if your mum was 24 when she concieved you??

Should she have had an abortion or given YOU up for adoption??

Try to take reponsibility for your own "opinions" and nopt blame your upbringing.

Go all you young mums, you rock!

xo
elle

Lil X-men

15-11-2005, 20:21

here, here Elle!

SweetSerenity

15-11-2005, 20:25

I agree elle :)

Love Nat xxx

Refresh

15-11-2005, 20:31

Please dont tell us we are to young i want to be a mother more then anything and for all the right reasons just like any 30 yr old who is trying to concieve i cant see any diffrence.
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Krystal, from reading all your posts in the TTC thread, you area going to make such a beautiful mum and you really deserve to get that long awaited bubba! You deserve so much to be a mum!

You know in these times it is possible to get that education and pay packet WITH a child, by doing study part time. Also you can do courses by correspondence etc so you wont be getting your parents to babysit. But this is not a necessary part of life. It DOES NOT make you a better mum

I TOTALLY AGREE!! Some people really thrive on eduation and work and getting a good paypacket and others just have the desire to be a mum and aren't interested in a career - some people want one or the other and some want both! Lets celebrate our diversity and accept that not everyone has to be the same!

carls

16-11-2005, 06:55

I think had you got yourself into that "situation" as you describe your mother's feelings may have been quite different to kicking you out.

Yes, sorry, I forgot you know my mother better than me. What was I thinking??

You know in these times it is possible to get that education and pay packet WITH a child, by doing study part time. ......But this is not a necessary part of life. It DOES NOT make you a better mum!

I think there are certain parts of education that are important to have a firm grip on as a parent such as reading, spelling and grammar. I see some mums on here that have the most appalling spelling, grammar and punctuation I have seen in my entire life. What happens when their child comes home from school and asks how to spell something? What is the mum going to do? Say "I dont know, go ask your father?"

Some mums want to start motherhood young and have no desire to do this. So what should they do ?? Get to that grand old age of wisdom (25 in your book) and then concieve?

No, but IMO without an education you will be behind the 8 ball when trying to find employment (unless you leave school to start a trade which I know is fairly common). If I was an employer and had two girls standing in front of me, both nice girls, well mannered etc - one left school in year 10 to have a baby and hadnt worked, and one had finished year 12, maybe moving on to tertiary education, I know who I would be choosing. This of course depends on the job at hand and is a hypothetical situation. I know how competitive the job market is out there, and I'm afraid unless you want to spend the rest of your life on a checkout or saying "do you want fries with that?" an education is important. IMHO of course!

I find that your views apply to your life and circumstances. That is great. BUT it is no excuse to apply those to everyone

Hey, I'm not saying that have to apply to everyone as everyone's circumstances are different. I am saying what I feel is important.

Even people with circumstances the same as yours have children early, and not as a result of disrespecting their parents or their "catholic" values. (BTW I think you'll find jesus' mother was approx 13 when she had him if you study the history of his life ;) )

I think you will find times have changed :rolleyes:
In our grandparents and parents time it was more the norm to get married early and start a family. Women werent meant to be career minded and were meant to stand behind an oven and pop out kids. Divorce, co-habitating before marriage and babies outside of marriage was practically unheard of. Lifestyles were different, the cost of living was different. I dont think you can compare really.

Think outside the square... what if your mum was 24 when she concieved you??
Should she have had an abortion or given YOU up for adoption??

I dont recall saying that someone at 24 should be forced to have an abortion or give their child up for adption so I dont know where you are pulling this from.
I think as it is illegal to have sex under the age of 16, it should also be illegal to have a child under the age of 16 - but again this is my opinion.

Try to take reponsibility for your own "opinions" and nopt blame your upbringing

I have taken responsibility for my own opinions throughout this whole thread. I am not BLAMING my upbringing, but as I have had what I consider to be a good upbringing, I have had certain morals, values and beliefs instilled into me - as I think most of us have. If I didnt agree with these, I wouldnt believe in them. Hey, my mum believes in tarot cards and clairvoyancy but I think its a crock of s***!

I hope this has cleared a few things up.

tickle

16-11-2005, 07:50

Although I disagree with many of the points Carls has made, she has definately taken responsibility for her posts, and always does.

I do think times and women have changed. There are some mothers out there who feel that having their own career is important but there are also others who feel that being at home with their children is even more important. Does that make sense?
I am a SAHM, I have a tertiary education but I am also not interested in pursuing my career any further until my children are at least in school. There are a lot of women out there who aren't interested in going out to work and are extremely happy to stay at home with their kids. So I think that can go both ways and is definately a personal choice. There is always time to further your education even further after you've had a baby.

On the point about spelling and punctuation. It really gets my goat too, but this is an internet forum and I understand that people are just typing in the quickest and easiest way. So I don't know whether or not it showes how well they do or do not spell. Gee, I hope there are no spelling errors in this post now :rolleyes: !

mim

16-11-2005, 07:50

I think there are certain parts of education that are important to have a firm grip on as a parent such as reading, spelling and grammar. I see some mums on here that have the most appalling spelling, grammar and punctuation I have seen in my entire life. What happens when their child comes home from school and asks how to spell something? What is the mum going to do? Say "I dont know, go ask your father?"

Some mums want to start motherhood young and have no desire to do this. So what should they do ?? Get to that grand old age of wisdom (25 in your book) and then concieve?

No, but IMO without an education you will be behind the 8 ball when trying to find employment (unless you leave school to start a trade which I know is fairly common). If I was an employer and had two girls standing in front of me, both nice girls, well mannered etc - one left school in year 10 to have a baby and hadnt worked, and one had finished year 12, maybe moving on to tertiary education, I know who I would be choosing. This of course depends on the job at hand and is a hypothetical situation. I know how competitive the job market is out there, and I'm afraid unless you want to spend the rest of your life on a checkout or saying "do you want fries with that?" an education is important. IMHO of course!

Okay, I have avoided posting on this thread simply because I didn't want to start something again.
But, Carls, since when do you have to complete Year 12 to be able to read, write and spell properly?
Why do you think that education has to stop because you have a baby? I haven't finished high school. I worked fulltime after I left school until I had my first. I had better things to do than study at the time and you know what, that's okay.
I am planning on going to uni in a couple of years, when I finish I will (shock horror) be a young, educated woman who will be earning a good pay packet.
I will also have a loving, caring husband and three beautiful, bright children in tow.

There are many, many ways of living your life, if we all did the same thing the world would be a very boring place.

razzle

16-11-2005, 07:51

(BTW I think you'll find jesus' mother was approx 13 when she had him if you study the history of his life )
Yes but Mary wasn't a promiscuous teen - it was an immaculate conception!! ;) That's why they call her the "Virgin" Mary.

ThomasMum

16-11-2005, 08:03

Yes but Mary wasn't a promiscuous teen - it was an immaculate conception!! ;) That's why they call her the "Virgin" Mary.

Snap! I was going to say the same thang!

elle101

16-11-2005, 08:05

I find your interest and persistance on this subject amazing carls, since you have neither had a child nor found yourself in the postion of being young and pregnant.

I think I am more worried with bringing my children up with things morals and qualities like commpassion, acceptance, self esteem, confidence and integrity.

I think grammer and spelling are important too. Pity you think that they are more important than these decent values as you seem to be displaying none of them.

And no I do not know your mother, never presumed I did. However, I feel that it would have to be a very unusual thing to be simply kicked out of what you call a decent loving family with good upbringing and morals if you fell pregnant young.
Seems like a contridiction to me: "I was brought up with great values, yet my parents would kick me out".

Also life is about more than edcation and grammer. Clearly, your fixation with this shows you cannot see outside that square.

Oh and by the way, I think that your insults cannot be disguised for lack of tact. That is another poor excuse for being just plain nasty. You shouldn't blame your upbringing for your opinions, because ultimately you make the choice to take on these values or not.

How about you go check some science data on the biologically most correct time to have a child? I think you will find that it it is under 25.

So much more I could write but have to go out now to re-enroll.

OH AND BY THE WAY CARLS YOU NEED TO CORRECT THIS PART OF YOUR POST THE GRAMMER IS WRONG:

"In our grandparents and parents time it was more the norm to get married early and start a family. Women werent meant to be career minded and were meant to stand behind an oven and pop out kids."

You forgot an apostrophe, in the word "weren't".

:)

xo elle

elle101

16-11-2005, 08:13

"Yes but Mary wasn't a promiscuous teen - it was an immaculate conception!! That's why they call her the "Virgin" Mary."
__________________

lol... well also if you study the history of the bible, you will know there were symbolic reasons to do with the old testament saying that the messiah will be born of a virgin. The virgin story is purely symbolic, the gospel of Mark doesn't even mention it. Even the Catholic church after Vat 2 released a statement saying the bible has to be read critically. If you do it in this way, this is what historians find to be trueOne of my majors is theology.

Also I was referring to her age rather than any "tarty" behaviour on her behalf... clearly you see young age and having a child young in line with sleeping around.

xo
elle

elle101

16-11-2005, 08:30

One other thing, before you jump on my spelling mistakes, don't bother. I care, but not as much as you seem to... and I have fat fingers not a poor edumacation. :p

xo
elle

carls

16-11-2005, 08:52

Elle101 � I am sorry that because you are angry and frustrated that I have these opinions, you choose to make personal digs at me and put words in my mouth.

�nor found yourself in the postion of being young and pregnant.

Last time I checked I was young and pregnant!

I think I am more worried with bringing my children up with things morals and qualities like commpassion, acceptance, self esteem, confidence and integrity.

I agree these are important too.

I think grammer and spelling are important too. Pity you think that they are more important than these decent values �..

I don�t remember saying that I thought they were more important, I just feel that they are important.

�.as you seem to be displaying none of them.

Maybe not in a chat room on certain topics or where you feel I should. Sorry about that. This morning my colleague was very upset and crying over a setback with starting her own business. In my pep talk to her, I covered most of the things described above by you.

And no I do not know your mother, never presumed I did. However, I feel that it would have to be a very unusual thing to be simply kicked out of what you call a decent loving family with good upbringing and morals if you fell pregnant young.
Seems like a contridiction to me: "I was brought up with great values, yet my parents would kick me out".

Well I have to agree with you on that one. She was a woman full of contradiction, she was a hypocrite and had a dictatorship that would put Hitler to shame.

Also life is about more than edcation and grammer. Clearly, your fixation with this shows you cannot see outside that square.

Not a fixation, just something that I thought was important and I explained why.

You shouldn't blame your upbringing for your opinions

I thought I covered this in my last post?

because ultimately you make the choice to take on these values or not.

Again, see my last post.

OH AND BY THE WAY CARLS YOU NEED TO CORRECT THIS PART OF YOUR POST THE GRAMMER IS WRONG:

I guess it�s a case of the pot calling the kettle black, all around!

lexi'smum

16-11-2005, 09:03

I think there are certain parts of education that are important to have a firm grip on as a parent such as reading, spelling and grammar. I see some mums on here that have the most appalling spelling, grammar and punctuation I have seen in my entire life. What happens when their child comes home from school and asks how to spell something? What is the mum going to do? Say "I dont know, go ask your father?"

Sorry im a little confused on this one, spelling grammar etc, are you saying if we cant spell certain words our children will not have appropriate upbringings? And the go ask your father, thats a bit unfair isnt it, are you saying younger dads(cause they probably are if their young mums) are more educated and so being a younger dad is ok? (like I said, confused on this one)

Also I know from my childhood alot of the parents I knew were well educated but with the old terms. inches, feet etc. therefore that wasnt much help with us, and they were older parents, children arnt born and go straight to school, there are a few years in between where the parent can grow and learn with the child while teaching them everything appropriate to this day and age.

I think you will realise this once you actually have your child, despite all your years of education and wisdom,there will be plenty you'l find you actually dont know at all! And this is ok, your learning everyday being a mother, and its stuff you could never be taught at uni etc.

And if your child or anyone for that matter asks you something you dont know, whats the harm in saying, just a minute we'll go look it up together, cause theres plenty of resources around (internet, encyclopedia, dictionary) and you'l probably find they take it in alot more when doing it for themselves with the help of others, rather them just be told and then forgotten.

And with all the opportunities out there, I believe the only reason you would get behind the 8 ball is if you let yourself, not because your a young mum, or a mum at all, that has nothing to do with it,and think of all the people without families or jobs just living off the dole, no one worries too much about them, they go un noticed and everyone picks on the young mums who are actually having a go at life, and making life.
So whats wrong with the mums who work at checkouts or jobs where they say 'do you want fries with that' atleast they'd be out there working, and how do you know there not working to save to pay off there education? Why would it be ok for young childless people to do that, (cause most of them do)but not for mums? first you were having a dig at young mums who can lodge centrelink forms, now your having a dig at young mums with less executive jobs even though their actually working and trying to make a living, and like I said, how do you know there not studying or saving to study, and even if they do spend the rest of there life behind a checkout, this may be there choice and will not make them a bad mum,or less of a mum.

carls

16-11-2005, 09:05

But, Carls, since when do you have to complete Year 12 to be able to read, write and spell properly?

You dont! I could read, write and spell long before year 12. I think it is uncommon these days, unless you leave school to begin a trade, to not finish year 12. High school 'drop outs' are still frowned upon (depending on what they dropped out for), and I think years 8-12 are so important for a teenagers development, self esteem and for preparing them for the adult world, uni, the workforce etc etc

Why do you think that education has to stop because you have a baby?

I never said it has to stop. I dont think it should stop!
If a teenage girl can have a baby and then go on to finish her schooling - fantastic. If she chooses to do this straight away or defer it and finish it at an adult college, its all good. If she later decides to go on to tertiary education, thats wonderful too.
If she leaves school early because she is having a baby and then never returns and lives off welfare for years, that is when I have a problem.

I think in these uncertain times, with the IR reforms and especially superannuation down the track, it is important to be as well equipped as you possibly can be to enter the workforce in order to survive later on.

I dont think all the values that you instill in your children should come second - its all part of what we teach them (which is SO much!!). Its all a rich tapestry!
:)

Sarie

16-11-2005, 09:24

I met my husband at 19, we married when I was 22 and started TTC straight away, unfortunately it took us 3 years to get our first son while our second was a surprise.
Sure under 17/18 is too young and time for fun and games. But when it comes down to it if you play with fire and get burned are you mature enough to come to the party and put everything you have into raising a great human? Most of the young mums on here certainly are and I must say my hat is off to you! I think you're all doing a great job!

pegasus

16-11-2005, 09:27

I'm very conscious of this being a very hot thread and while I don't want to offend anyone, I can't help but put in my 2c worth again. This thread has turned into personal swipes again rather than about people sharing their experiences, so the following is just my experiences I'm sharing.

Regarding the education - I find that I spend a lot of time (more with DSD than with DSS) working on school work - infact DSD was sent to live with us last year as her biomum said "she's failing school and I don't know what to do with her." DSD and I then proceeded to spend about 4hours a night on spelling, grammar and maths. She has proceeded to pick up a fair bit and we continue to work on this stuff while she's with me. I don't know if biomum didn't help her as she didn't know how or that she couldn't be stuffed - either way it doesn't matter why, the point is she didn't. My theory is that she doesn't value education, as she doesn't use hers and DSD has days off whenever she wants.

The point about jobs (this can be pretty strongly linked to education) is that biomum of my stepkids has never earned any money in her life - she receives money from Centrelink and maintenance from DH, but doesn't have a job (never has). In 5years time, the money will drop off from DSD and in 7years time the money will drop off from DSS - and she'll be 36 - looking for her first job (competing with everyone else who's younger, more confident in the workplace...) This isn't my concern, my concern is that my DSK's don't have any idea about earning money - they think it grows on trees and as a result have very little respect for some things.

Please do not take this as a personal attack, I fully believe that some young mums continue in stable relationships, (and their family is supported on one income) and do not need to work. I also believe that some most young mum's (regardless of whether they are single or not) teach their kids values by working for pocket money etc. I also believe that most mums when they have kids - if they don't know the answer themselves will seek the answer with the kids and work on homework together. As I said before, This is not an attack on anyone in this forum - just some of my experiences.

PS My DH and I do what we can to instill morals and values in the 10% of time that we have them.

lexi'smum

16-11-2005, 09:30

edited to erase as i accidently posted twice, sorry! :)

carls

16-11-2005, 10:01

Sorry im a little confused on this one, spelling grammar etc, are you saying if we cant spell certain words our children will not have appropriate upbringings?

No, not at all. An 'appropriate upbringing' isnt limited to that! But I feel that we are role models to our children, and while we dont have the answers to everything, that if we are helping our children to read and write, that we should have a firm grasp on it! Basically I think that reading, spelling etc are foundations. That is why we give babies books with the alphabet - we dont give them books on chemistry and physics. We dont expect all adults to know the table of elements or the laws of physics, but we certainly expect them to know how to read and write.

And the go ask your father, thats a bit unfair isnt it, are you saying younger dads(cause they probably are if their young mums) are more educated and so being a younger dad is ok? (like I said, confused on this one)

Huh?? that was a bit obscure! No not at all! I just thought of "go ask your dad" because thats what a lot of mums say! Probably a bad choice of words!

I think you will realise this once you actually have your child, despite all your years of education and wisdom,there will be plenty you'l find you actually dont know at all! And this is ok, your learning everyday being a mother, and its stuff you could never be taught at uni etc

I am certain this will be the case! I'm pretty sure that financial reports and Powerpoint Presentations wont help me much when I'm changing nappies. I appreciate that motherhood and the skills learnt along the way are a totally different ball game to a 9-5 job, and dont doubt its the hardest job in the world.

And if your child or anyone for that matter asks you something you dont know, whats the harm in saying, just a minute we'll go look it up together, cause theres plenty of resources around (internet, encyclopedia, dictionary) and you'l probably find they take it in alot more when doing it for themselves with the help of others, rather them just be told and then forgotten.

Fantastic resources. I couldnt agree more!
All I was talking about was basic spelling, reading and grammar. I'm not claiming to be Oxford Dictionary, but I have a grasp on the basics, put it that way. I'm not adverse to pulling out a dictionary from time to time.

So whats wrong with the mums who work at checkouts or jobs where they say 'do you want fries with that' atleast they'd be out there working, and how do you know there not working to save to pay off there education?

I'm talking about careers - not part time jobs to support uni. If youre paying off education or are in the middle of education, I'm pretty sure its an education to get your further than minimum wage employment..
Have you ever heard the joke - it goes something like "what did the Bachelor of Arts graduate say to.....?" "Do you want fries with that?"

I worked for a shoe store in Adelaide for a couple of months when I returned back from London. I cleared $420 a week (standard minimum award wage). If I was a single SAHM paying the rent that I am paying, I would receive $10 a week more than that.
I dont know who would be crazy enough to go and work for that instead of staying at home looking after their child for the same money. It wouldnt be logical. What would make more sense is earning more than minimum wage when you do decide to go back to work, but I think in order to get out of the minimum wage bracket, you need to arm yourself with enough skills.

I'm not saying that everyone should be an executive. I'm not an executive either! But I do know what the cost of living is, and I know that finances are one of the biggest causes of fights between couples. LOVE and all the other things that I'm sure you're all about to throw at me aside, in order to eat and pay our rent or mortgages, run our car, pay our bills, get some superannuation behind us for our future, we need jobs. Jobs that pay more than minimum wage because it is SO hard to live on. And in order to get those jobs we need education.

(I realise that people's working and home circumstances are different, and I only based my above comparison on a single SAHM as it drew a good comparison on the rates of pay)

ThomasMum

16-11-2005, 10:08

Aww come on you guys. Just remember everyone's entitled to an opinion, whether you like it or not, lets leave it that and respect that yeah.

Do you love your child and make sure that your child will have a good
future? YES? Well then you dont need to explain it to anyone how you get "here".
You don't owe anyone anything, lets embrace each other differences with pride :)

I like a good debate, dont we all? But there's the a huge difference between a good debate and I-just-want-to-fight debate...

Good on you mums, young, middle or old! :D

Nuf said from me...

carls

16-11-2005, 10:12

If this thread didnt exist, I would be very bored at work! :D

CinderElla

16-11-2005, 10:17

Hi, I am 17 (18 in April) and my boyfriend is 19 (20 in March) we are TTC our first bubba, my best friend thinks its stupid but I truly believe that I am ready to have a baby. We have just moved out together but we have been living together at my parents house for 8 months, we have been together for 14 months and we are getting engaged on my birthday. I do not think that i am to young to have a baby but i do believe that alot of people my age are not ready to have a baby, 2 of my friends (18 yrs) have just had babies and another (17 yrs) is due next month and she is doing it alone, her boyfriend left her befors she knew, and I think all of them are and will be great mothers. So age has nothing to do with it, it is the person!!!!

lexi'smum

16-11-2005, 10:23

Carls- probably totally irrelevant but ive never heard the joke, care to share? cause I love a good joke.

carls

16-11-2005, 10:30

An engineering graduate asks how that works.
A science graduate asks why that works.
What does an arts graduate ask?�

Would you like fries with that?

:p

elle101

16-11-2005, 10:36

"I am sorry that because you are angry and frustrated that I have these opinions, you choose to make personal digs at me and put words in my mouth"

I do not think I did this. And no i'm not angry or frustrated just sad that you seem to be speaking for societies "morals" and that children under 16 should not be aloud to have kids. So what do we do when a 16 year old falls pregnant? Please, I'd really like to know.

Anyway, you are disguising your attacks as opinions. "Anyone who is under 25 is too young to have a kid" was your first post. That opinion is offensive.

You seem to think young mums need a highschool education for self esteem. I know a lot of girls who would have developed much higher self esteem, and boys for that matter, had they been aloud to leave school. This is because, shock horror, not everyone needs to have that academic validation that you think is so important. Sometimes 4 unit maths isn't really relevant to motherhood or flipping burgers.

What's wrong with flipping burgers or being a checkout chick anyway?? Where would society be with out these people? Did you read the paper last weekend about how Australians are becoming over qualified fo rthe jobs they are doing? We don't need all these qualifications unless we want to use them... And some mums do not want this.

When I said to you "you have never been pregnant or young" I meant in the context we were talking about. I was talking about what YOU felt was too young.

Thats really nice about the pep talk you gave, don't see the relevance to this discussion really.

Also when you said: "Well I have to agree with you on that one. She was a woman full of contradiction, she was a hypocrite and had a dictatorship that would put Hitler to shame"

This is what I don't get. You claim to be upholding these "hypocritcal" morals.

I am not personally attacking you, perhaps I am being as blunt as you have been at times in this thread.

I appreciate you offering your opinion, and I respect your right to share it. But that doesn't mean I will sit back and step on egg shells tip toeing around your "rights" while subtley knock other women's choices and say it as if you are in a friendly debate. Generalisations, stereotypes you have offered are not only untue, but damaging.

To any mum younger than 16 reading this, please don't take these comments to heart. They are not said with knowledge of your situation or who you are as an individual. Just listen to those who are supportive, and ignore the rest.

xo
elle

"