Lotus Birth

[DoulaFelicity]

Lotus birth is the practice of leaving the umbilical cord intact, retaining the link between the babe and the placenta after birth, until the cord and placenta dry out naturally and simply fall off (usually between 3 to 10 days after birth).

The smell of the placenta is very clean and pure; it smells like amniotic fluid, which, if you've ever smelt it, has got to be one of the freshest smells in the world - the smell of our babe's life sustaining fluid. :) Some Lotus Birthers like to sprinkle sea salts on the placenta to aid the drying process, and also an essential oil (such as Lavender) so that they can benefit from the aromatherapy as they keep the placenta near to them and their babe.

Often, creating a "placenta bag" is a valued part of the ritual of preparing for birth. The placenta is usually wrapped in a cloth nappy, and placed in the placenta bag, making it easy to carry around with the newborn babe without fuss.

The reasoning behind this practice is solid, and the health benefits (physically, emotionally and spiritually) for the babe are wonderful. Yet, in our modern society, the importance of a gentle transition into the world outside the womb, and of the newborn babe obtaining as much as possible from the cord that has grown and nurtured it before that lifeline is severed, are overlooked and/or unknown. It's for this reason, that I post this here. :) Some birthing Mamas may be unaware of this practice, and it may be something they wish to consider.

For some more information on the benefits and reasoning behind Lotus Birth, and practical tips on how to manage it, here's just a few websites to start you on your personal research and decisionmaking journey:-

http://www.lotusfertility.com/Lotus_Birth_Q/Lotus_Birth_QA.html
http://www.pregnancy.com.au/Lotus_birth.htm
http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/cordIssues.html#Lotus

I also recommend the book "Lotus Birth" by Shivam Rachana (a wonderful Doula, founder of the Centre for Human Transformation, Principal of the International College of Spiritual Midwifery, and wise woman, who I had the pleasure of meeting last weekend at the National Doula Conference). An amazing read, with everything you could ever wish to know about this gentle extension of natural birth.

After all, a natural birth extends far beyond the actual moment of arrival in this world. :)

Looking forward to an open and interesting discussion on this topic!

[Trix]

Hi DoulaFelicity,

I have actually never ever heard of this practice before.

To be completely honest, I don't think i'd want to carry around the placenta for another 10 days!!

Each to their own I suppose.

Thanks for this eye opening info!

[WeThree]

hi, im just curious, what are the benefits to doing this, once the blood has actually stopped pumping through to the bubs (which i thought was only an hr or so) what is the point? im not being rude, i am generally curious, i have heard of this practise and i know that it is not a good idea to cut the cord straight away, but i would love to hear why it needs to be carried around that long, i thought as long as you waited for the blood to stop pumping then it was cool to cut the cord? i dont know of any history of this being done by woman or any other creatures, in fact isnt it traditionally, by woman and other animals, eaten?(the placenta i mean)

thanks in advance :D

[DoulaFelicity]

coopsntilly, you're absolutely not being rude, and your curiousity is both warranted and welcome. :)

Aside from the well-documented benefits of allowing all the blood from the cord to continue on it's route to the babe after birth, and the reduced risk of infection from the cord wound (as there is no cut, so no wound), the practice of Lotus Birth stems largely from emotional and spiritual beliefs and benefits to the babe. (This may sound a bit "woo woo" to some, and I can understand that. ;) ) But remember that a newborn babe is a conscious, thinking, feeling, emotional and spiritual being, just as you and I are. Lotus Birthers see leaving the cord and placenta intact until they naturally fall off as a huge sign of respect and tenderness towards the babe, and towards something that is actually a part of the babe. It is considered gentle, loving and non-invasive to not interfere with the attachment until it is ready to be severed of it's own accord. The website links I gave have some wonderful personal accounts and explanations available, as does Shivam Rachana's book. Some quotes (from the links posted) that may explain a little better what I am trying to say:-

We never cut the cord. The placenta was salted and wrapped in a few nappies and put in a plastic bag which was placed in a very small pillow slip and carried with the baby for the next four days until the cord came away from her belly button of it's own accord. I believe much of the baby's peace in the first four days was due to allowing the placenta and cord to stay intact beside her until they were ready to come away. The placenta is an amazing organ originating not directly from the mother but from the cell division of the fertilised egg; it is truly a part of the baby. The placenta is not something to be cut off the baby, treated as dirty and smelly and thrown in the bin."

In my culture, the placenta is seen as the baby's guardian spirit, I can see the point of allowing the placenta and the baby to make the their own separation rather than abruptly end it ourselves.

Chimpanzees have Lotus Births. :) In the 1970s, Clair Lotus Day, a pregnant woman living in California, experimented with mimicking this birthing ritual. She observed great peace and calmness in her babe, which she deduced was as a result of the Lotus Birth.

Lotus Birth is also an ingenious way of ensuring seclusion, closeness and attachment between the Mother and babe in the crucial days after the birth. There is a lot less chance of the babe being taken from the Mother by anyone (well-meaning or not) with the placenta attached; it contributes to the essential "slowing down" new Mothers and babes need to do to establish their relationship, feeding, and bonding.

It's also true that many cultures and animals eat the placenta. This, too, is a wonderful practice. Rich in Oxytocin, it can prevent maternal bleeding, assist in contracting the uterus back to it's regular size, and provide a huge boost of vitamins and goodies.

One placenta, so many wonderful uses... :) It's almost criminal to simply cut it off and discard it, isn't it?

[AM]

The idea of lotus birth does really appeal, but my partner already thinks i am wierd enough, and would probably pass out if I suggested it, and also, I do want to use my placenta this time around as a remedy for pnd, which I believe is not possible with a lotus placenta.

[Rainbowbrite]

It sounds wonderful, but like ApprenticeMomma, my DH would freak :p

RB

[JanetF]

This is lovely too.
http://sarahjbuckley.com/articles/lotus-birth.htm

If I had to have another c-sec (Goddess forbid!) it's in my birth plan so I can ensure my child isn't ripped off their life support system too early. Whether or not I would keep the placenta intact after that, I'm still considering, but it would help my child get a better start than my son got. It also means that visitors are less likely to want to hold your child and I think that's a good thing too ;)

[WeThree]

hi felicity, thankyou so much for that, i really appreciated it and enjoyed reading it :)

[schmell]

The idea of lotus birth does really appeal, but my partner already thinks i am wierd enough, and would probably pass out if I suggested it, and also, I do want to use my placenta this time around as a remedy for pnd, which I believe is not possible with a lotus placenta.
How can the placenta be used as a PND remedy?

I am not trying to sound rude just wondering????

[Mother Duck]

Doula Felicity

It is lovely to see you post this topic, the more shared knowledge the better. I too have strong feelings that we are too casual about the birthing process and the significant impacts and affects that this crucial point has on our bubs.

I have read about Lotus Births before and find it beautiful. For me personally the point at which the need for that connection ends is when the cords stops pulsing. Before this I feel is too soon, any longer is too long - I guess it is a personal thing.

Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us though - ;)

[AM]

How can the placenta be used as a PND remedy?



Well, since you asked, you eat it.

The plan this time is to eat a part of it in a smoothie immediately after birth to help replenish iron and other nutrients, and help prevent PPH, and the rest of it will be cooked, dried and made into capsules to be used later on down the track.

Another method I have read about is to make a tincture with alcohol, but I think the capsules should work just fine for me.

Of course you need a drug free placenta to do any of these things, and an un-salted, or perfumed one, which is why Lotus placentas cannot be used.

[JanetF]

I've also never heard of a PPH continuing after a mother has consumed a tiny part of the placenta. Better than going to the hospy ;)
http://parentinghealth.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=13

[schmell]

Thanks guys that is an interesting piece of info. Even though I am not considering having anymore kids (at the moment) it is always good to find out about other ways to cope with things incase I have anymore kids further down the track. And besides that I have an ever inquisitive mind.

[Mummabear]

Lotus Birthers see leaving the cord and placenta intact until they naturally fall off as a huge sign of respect and tenderness towards the babe, and towards something that is actually a part of the babe. It is considered gentle, loving and non-invasive to not interfere with the attachment until it is ready to be severed of it's own accord.

WOW!! That would have to be one of the most beautiful things I have read in regards to welcoming a baby to this world. Having said that I'm not sure that it would be something that I would do. I've never actually heard of Lotus Birthing before. Thanks for brining it to the forum.

A question (not being argumentative - I'm genuinely interested in your response). My midwife friend told me that you have to be very careful how long you leave the cord attached as it can cause iron overload in some bubs. She said every woman/baby is different and she watches the baby for her indication as to when to cut. Some can be left until pulsation stops (in which case I see how this could carry on to the Lotus experience), but others need to be done before this. She said she watched the colour change in the bubs as her guide.

[AM]

A question (not being argumentative - I'm genuinely interested in your response). My midwife friend told me that you have to be very careful how long you leave the cord attached as it can cause iron overload in some bubs. She said every woman/baby is different and she watches the baby for her indication as to when to cut. Some can be left until pulsation stops (in which case I see how this could carry on to the Lotus experience), but others need to be done before this. She said she watched the colour change in the bubs as her guide.

I've read a fair bit on delayed cord clamping, as I believe it is the very best thing to do, not deprive the baby of its full volume of blood, and have never seen reference to what your friend was saying.
I would be interested if she knew of any evidence to back up what she is saying.
To be honest, I just do not see how it is biologically possible for the pulsing cord to actually cause harm to a baby, it really just does not make sense to me.
I mean, in the animal kingdom, I'm sure there is nothing remotely like immediate cord clamping, and therefore the placenta/cord would be specifically designed by nature to stop functioning at the correct time, KWIM?? And we are animals after all, so I'm sure the same would apply.

[rynosmum]

Hi Felicity,

What are the risks of infection to the baby by keeping the placenta attached for any length of time ?

[Mummabear]

Thanks ApprenticeMomma. I'll have to have more of a chat with her about it. It was only ever mentioned in passing as she knew that I wanted the cord left attached for as long as possible. Unfortunately a peadiatrician was called in to assess bubs immediately after delivery due to mec staining and stress, and obviously we had interrupted his dinner as he wouldn't wait and made DH snip the cord immediately :mad: . I was just in such a state of bliss at having delivered DS that I honestly didn't even notice. I'll be paying more attention next time!!! :cool:

And we are animals after all

Some more so than others (i.e. DH) LOL :D. Yeah, I guess we are - a fact that tends to be overlooked quite a bit I'm guessing.


What are the risks of infection to the baby by keeping the placenta attached for any length of time ?

Ooo, good question - I'd be interested in that too. Hadn't thought about that. Is there any particular maintenance that needs to be done to keep the cord free from infection or does it all take care of itself?

[AM]

Hi Felicity,

What are the risks of infection to the baby by keeping the placenta attached for any length of time ?

From what I have read, you have a much lower risk of any infection from a lotus birth, than from cutting the cord, as there is no open wound for infection to enter.
It just naturally withers and comes away as nature intended.
I guess you could say it is a 'closed system'

[cosmic]

Just a quick question that isn't really related to Lotus Birth.. how long generally until the cord stops pulsing?? I'm definitely going to wait for it to stop pulsing before cutting - and will be reading up on the Lotus Birth. Thanks for sharing the info.

I did mention Lotus Birth to my DH several weeks ago when I first heard of it, and his response, as always, was "I am more than happy to have information about it, but my initial response is that I would think I would want to have the cord cut"... he had a similar response to co-sleeping but he's all for that now. :p Bless him for being so open-minded and trusting me!

[AM]

Generally the cord will stop pulsing and turn white within minutes, sometimes a little longer.
It definitely is not an unreasonable length of time to wait, for the benefits it gives your baby.
They estimate that in that time, from 20-50% extra blood volume is transferred, and this greatly reduces the liklihood of infantile anaemia, as well as the fact that the baby does not have to waste precious resources building up their blood supply on their own.
Myself, I just cannot understand why it is not common practise, it is just so logical.

If, like me, you are going to leave the cord intact until the placenta is birthed, then that is usually ample time for the cord to finish doing its thing.
Great to hear your dh is so open minded. :)

here is a link to an article.

http://onyx-ii.com/birthsong/page.cfm?cord

[DoulaFelicity]

Hello ladies,

It's wonderful to see so much interest in this extremely beneficial, gentle way of welcoming our babes into the world. :) There also seems to be some who have already begun their own research journeys into delayed cord clamping, if not Lotus Birth - and I congratulate those women.

NewMumJuly05 - your friend is actually partially correct, in that there tends to be more red blood cells and jaundice when the cord is left intact and the full quota of blood allowed to flow to the newborn babe. However, this is not a negative thing (difficult though that may be to believe!). Here is a link to an article, but I've cut and quoted the specific comment related to your question:-

http://www.pregnancy.com.au/third_stage_of_labour.htm

Some studies have shown an increased risk of polycythemia (more red blood cells in the blood) and jaundice when the cord is clamped later. Polycythemia may be beneficial, in that more red cells means more oxygen being delivered to the tissues. The risk that polycythemia will cause the blood to become too thick (hyperviscosity syndrome), which is often used as an argument against delayed cord clamping, seems to be negligible in healthy babies. (Morley 1998)

Jaundice is almost certain when a baby gets his or her full quota of blood, and is caused by the breakdown of the normal excess of blood to produce bilirubin, the pigment that causes the yellow appearance of a jaundiced baby. There is, however, no evidence of adverse effects from this. (Morley 1998). One author has proposed that jaundice, which is present in almost all human infants to some extent, and which is often prolonged by breastfeeding, may actually be beneficial because of the anti-oxidant properties of bilirubin. (Gartner 1998)

I do urge you all to read the entire article that link provides - the information is all extremely invaluable and I can't fit it all in here! :p Much of it is simply about delayed cord clamping, not just Lotus Birth, so even if Lotus Birth is a bit "woo woo" for some, you may discover some great reasons to at least delay clamping the cord.

cosmic, another article that actually explains how, even though the cord may have outwardly appeared to stop pulsing, this does not mean the babe has received all the blood and benefits they need...and explains the pulsing in a way many of us may not have understood it before:-

http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/fetalcrc2.html

Again, I've cut and quoted a specific portion here for those who don't have time to read through it all:-

Many people have come to understand the importance of leaving the umbilical cord intact as long as the baby is still using it. Most people assume that once the pulsing in the cord stops, the baby is no longer using it. This comes from a bit of a misconception that the pulsing is caused by the placenta and that the pulse is blood flowing from the placenta to the baby. In actuality, the pulse is caused by the baby's heart and represents the pulsing flow of blood away from the baby, in order to be oxygenated through the placenta.

Babies are incredibly smart little critters, and they know the value of that precious life's blood. They stop sending blood away from their body relatively early after birth, but they continue to receive oxygenated blood flowing from the placenta for some time after the birth, even after the placenta has separated, detached and been delivered. There is no scientific research regarding how or when this flow stops - the erroneous assumption has been that the baby doesn't need to continue receiving blood from the placenta after birth.

Again, there is no evidence to support the belief that it is safe to sever the umbilical cord within seconds or even minutes after birth. It would be nice if medical science could explore this key question, but until research provides answers, we need to err on the side of caution.

It is wonderful that your DH is so openminded, and willing to research, and make evidence based decisions. How wonderful. He might like to do some Googling, read Shivam Rachana's book, or even read this discussion (printed off)?

rynosmum - the risk of infection to the newborn babe from leaving the umbilicus and placenta unsevered is essentially none - certainly, far less than standard cord practice. Infection enters through a wound (such as the traditional severed cord stump); with Lotus Birth, there is no wound. It is, as ApprenticeMomma said, effectively a "closed system".

Loving the open discussion. Keep it comin'. :D

[cosmic]

Thanks Felicity. You're a wealth of information and I look forward to reading the articles. :)

I did just read a little quote from your post to my DH and he said "hmmmm... SO much to think about!" as he raced out the door. He loves it when I start discussions about whether to vaccinate or not and he is always fascinated by the alternative view, so regardless of what we ultimately decide to do (whether to do with cord-cutting, vaxing etc etc) at least I will know we have explored all the pros and cons with a VERY open mind! I would hate to be married to someone who just put their foot down and allowed me no choice on some of these important issues.

C.

[Zan]

Slightly off topic but what is the practice in Oz for rhesus negative women? I had natural (home) births with both of my girls but with both had the cord clamped immediately so a cord blood sample could be taken to determine the girls blood type.
Personally I would have rather have left the cord uncut/clamped and just had a routine anti-d injection anyway (they were both + and as I had already had anti-d during pg I would rather have just had another rather than wait for the blood test results and have it, also with dd2 the 2nd m/w mucked up the blood tests so my m/w had to take blood from her anyway to test.)
Any info??
Zan

[Funkychicken]

Slightly off topic but what is the practice in Oz for rhesus negative women? I had natural (home) births with both of my girls but with both had the cord clamped immediately so a cord blood sample could be taken to determine the girls blood type.
Personally I would have rather have left the cord uncut/clamped and just had a routine anti-d injection anyway (they were both + and as I had already had anti-d during pg I would rather have just had another rather than wait for the blood test results and have it, also with dd2 the 2nd m/w mucked up the blood tests so my m/w had to take blood from her anyway to test.)
Any info??
Zan
Hi Zan,
I am also rhesus negative and after my DS was born 7 years ago he was tested and found to be positive so I was given a shot of Anti-D and that was that. My daughter, born 5 years ago is neg so I was given nothing. Currently pregnant with babe no.#3 I have discovered that things have changed in the testing world. I have received one shot of Anti-D already (( think it was about 28 wks,maybe thirty) and am to receive another this week (34-35 wks). I have requested that the cord stay intact after the birth until I deliver the placenta and the midwives have no problem with this, unless they need to cut it during the birth for medical reasons. No-one has mentioned anything about the fact I am Rhesus neg and it didn't come into discussion during the talk about leaving the cord intact. I am in Melbourne though and some areas/hospitals vary in their procedures so maybe check with the hospital/birth centre you are planning to attend or the midwife if you are planning another home birth. Best of luck,
-----------------------------------------
Sal-5 wks to go!

[DoulaFelicity]

Zan, I am in Melbourne, and I've just looked at the Victorian "standards of care" (tongue firmly in cheek, but that's a whole other story... ;) ), and, as Sal008 has described, it would appear that routine administering of Anti D injections at several points (from what I read, usually twice during pregnancy and once immediately after the birth) is the only specific thing that a hospital care provider will do as routine. There is no mention of cord clamping, testing the babe's blood once the cord is clamped, or the need to do so.

I would say that the reason this is done is that if you are Rhesus Negative, it is "automatically" assumed that your babe is, too, and the shots are given accordingly...so there would be no need to check the babe's blood if this was the standard procedure anyway.

For what it's worth, based on evidence and recommendations by the World Health Organisation (WHO), "Women who are rhesus negative should avoid early clamping since it increases the risk of alloimmunization" (alloimmunization is the process whereby antibodies are formed which are directed towards antigens from other people, including leukocytes. It is one of the most serious transfusion complications). Here's the WHO evidence and recommendations on care of the Umbilical Cord (if you feel like a bit of a meaty read ;) ):-

http://www.who.int/reproductive-health/publications/MSM_98_4/care_umbilcal_cord.pdf

I see from your location that you're planning a move to Sydney. You should be able to find some wonderful homebirth midwives/doulas, and I would expect you won't have to encounter routine amputation of the placenta if it's not something you desire this time around. :) I actually have some great homebirth contacts (ie: there is an Australian Homebirth network online) - I will PM you.

Hoping this helps, please let me know if there is anything else I can offer...

[Mother Duck]

Hi there - I am also rhesus negative. As the others have said I was given routine injections and just after M's birth too.

I have had a couple of mc's and was supposed to be given an injection directly after these - the Dr didn't even read my record properly after mc 1 (at 13 wks) Rh neg was written in bold! - he didn't give me anything :mad: (apart from babd advice - I went to my sisters GP on her insistance coz the treatment was so ordinary - her GP rushed me through for injection

Anyway my point is that for me this may mean more checking my antibody levels throughout this pregnancy but that should be about it. Fairly routine stuff.

For Mickayla we birthed the placenta and waited till it stopped pulsing.

Hope this helps - good luck with the move!

[DoulaFelicity]

So, just to bring it back to the topic, a Lotus Birth is possible for you, Zan, if you are interested. :p

And Jessie, now I'm flying off topic again, as I've been meaning to comment: your babe is gorgeous! :D

[Zan]

Thanks everyone, seems that in Australia it is more likely to give the routine post birth shot rather than testing which is what I'd prefer.
Thanks again.
Zan